Article: BREAKING: Rafael Devers Traded To San Francisco Giants

[Randy Red Sox]

16 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

" A waste of Crochet and Bregman"?  How so? Does that mean you think the season is over? We just saw how the Sox can handle the overrated Yankees. And there are several good options to DH.  Losing Devers and his attitude is not the end of the season. Not at all. 

no doubt Devers was a bit of a head case but he did own the Yankees and I sure hope you don't think Henry is going to let Breslow spend a good portion of that money saved>

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, Nick said:

Bottom line is this....perhaps they painted themselves into a corner.....

It goes back to looking for a better defender at 3B that can also hit and they found it. I would think that the team thought this through before signing Bregman. What to do with Devers? Casas was healthy. 

Then it just came down to thinking that they had a noose around their neck with a DH making $30M a year for next 8 years.

No one forced Brez into this situation. I would really love to hear what their long term plans were at the Bregman signing. 

While I agree, they should have involved talking to Devers about possible moves before signing Bregman. They should have mentioned 1B and DH, not one at the exclusion of the other.

That being said, a GM should be permitted to believe his players will play where they are asked to play, especially if it is for an obvious improvement for the team. (The GM should also expect his manager to ask the player to do what is best for the team.) I'm not sure what was said and what was not said, asked or told. Nobody know for sure.

I've wanted Devers to try 1B over the winter for several years. Who knows, maybe he'd have ended up liking it. At least we'd find that out, while getting an idea, if he could be any good at it. (Being better than Casas was a low bar to meet or pass.) We failed to do that, for whatever reason, and apparent promises made by Bloom did not help.

This is a business and baseball is the job Devers chose to do. Things change all the time. I bought my Honda at a dealership that gave me free oil changes for life. 4 years later, they sold the dealership to someone who kept the same business name. The new ownership group refused to honor the previous agreement. Did it suck for me? Yes. Was I pissed? yes, Did I get over it and understand that's how business works? Yes.

No doubt, Bloom, Brez and others made some serious mistakes- both commissions and omissions. They lacked foresight and candor, and it's not a one and done thing- it's been ongoing, but that does not take a player totally off the hook. A player has a duty to do what is asked of him, and in this case, I feel it was a very clear ask for the betterment of the team.

Bregman fell into our laps, and I'm not going to bash Brez for jumping at the chance to get him, and thinking he could find a way to make it work. (There was the poorer option of playing Bregman at 2B as a last resort, IMO.)

I never expected the reaction we got from Devers. The fact that he viewed himself as a good defender was not really surprising, but he was wrong- bigtime wrong. I realize it's not always easy for someone to be a DH, but it's not rocket science, and when he said "I can't be asked to learn every position" or something like that, it was absurd. I don't see DH as having to learn new skills. It's just learning what to do with yourself between ABs. Asking him to learn to play 1B was one new position that has been a very common move in baseball history (3B to 1B.)

It's too bad it went down this way. I'm not sure which single person is most to blame. I'm not even one to put much stock in assigning blame, especially total blame to one person, and hindsight balme games have always bugged me, but certainly somebody did something wrong. here, and I see it as multiple people doing several things wrong, over time. I'm not sure we will ever come close to agreeing on who is most to blame, and maybe nobody has over 50% of the blame, since so many hands are involved. In many ways, this is worse than Betts, because with him, it seemed to be all about JH not wanting to go all in, and Betts saying he wanted to test the market. I assigned no blame to DD or Cora. This one has too many people involved with some share of blame and wrong-doing.

 

[Randy Red Sox]

57 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, that makes it not worthy of mention?

It's not like he's offered $15M for the option year. He just may take it.

If he walks, there is another big chunk of change added to the pot- "MAYBE!"

We may also extend him to a different deal without opt outs.

I get the negativity, today. I'm not happy either.

I called this a 3rd down punt. It's a waste of one year of Crochet & Bregman, and it shortens the window on the front end while barely bumping up the back-end window.

 

Moon do you have any idea where the Sox stand in terms of payroll now and where they rank in MLB??

[Duran Is The Man]

3 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

Moon do you have any idea where the Sox stand in terms of payroll now and where they rank in MLB??

19th

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

Moon do you have any idea where the Sox stand in terms of payroll now and where they rank in MLB??

Cash

[Kimmi]

3 hours ago, Nick said:

It's what we do with his $240M 'get' from the balance of his contract will be telling.

Of course I'll be pissed if JH 'pockets' the money and go cheap on us again.

The team took a big hit talent wise, for sure.  Devers is one of the best hitters in the league, and his production will be hard to replace.  Ownership is obviously looking more towards next year and beyond than they are looking at this year.  I'm not saying that they're giving up on this season, but that they had to protect future of the kids.

At least this somewhat alleviates the logjam.

[mvp 78]

Tax

[moonslav59]

31 minutes ago, Nick said:

Oh it's definitely their fault.

As I said, what was the plan when they signed Bregman when they had Casas at 1B, waiting for him to blossom.

How does Devers fit in? His only spot was DH yet the team complained about having a $30M DH.

Casas had already proven he was the worst defensive 1Bman in MLB. Nobody was even close.

HIS only slot was DH- not Devers!

At least try Devers at 1B. If he's better, he plays all or mostly 1B, and rests at DH, some games. If he's about the same on D (ugh!) then pair-share DH and 1B between Casas and Devers and maybe it helps keep them both healthier and engaged. If he's worse (almost impossible,) the Casas stays at 1B and Devers is the forvers DH. 

I'm not seeing why this had to be such a big area of contention, except that Devers felt offended by the request.

Bregman was clearly the much better 3Bman, and we had Campbell, Story and Mayer available at middle infield, so a big NO on Bregman at 2B. The Bregman signing made us a much better team on O, on D and with the Lefty-righty unbalance issue.

The biggest conflict should have been, and was on this chat site, where does Yoshida fit- not how can we soothe Devers' ego? How can we walk on eggshells?

[illinoisredsox]

6 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

i'm sure he won't but given he was likely the big piece in the trade don't you find it a bit odd??

He's appeared in 8 games with the SF this year; his first 4 were in relief and his last 4 were as a starter.  Since the Sox rotation is set right now (I repeat, right now), if they view him as a starter, they want him getting regular work in Worcester.  If they view him as a bullpen piece, they want him to work back to that role. 

I wouldn't read too much into it.

[FredLynn]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

The malcontent was saying "communicate with me and treat me fairly." Other players are going to notice. Players started to not like Bloom here. More players will tune out Breslow and that is going to impact Cora more and more. The whole organization is on a bad path with their bad culture. It rots from the top down (JH). 

You can’t have a player telling management where he will or will not play. It sets a horrible precedent in the clubhouse-especially with the younger players. No doubt Brelow could have handled it better but at the end of the day it’s HIS decision how the roster is constructed and input from the players isn’t necessary. 
I read an article saying that when you sign a contract for $313M there comes with it the responsibility to do what is best for the team. Devers didn’t hold up his end of the deal. 

 

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

Suppose we end up with no super stars.....no Devers, no Bregman

CC Navarez

1B Gonzalez/Casas

2B Campbell

SS Story

3B Mayer

LF Duran

CF Rafaela

RF Anthony

DH Yoshida

Utility....Wong/Gonzalez/Refsnyder/Hamilton

We need to lock up Bregman.

Can we trade Chapman, Buehler, Giolito and get some value and then re-sign them all?

If the starting pitching is really good, the lineup you describe above can get us to the playoffs with timely hits and development of the rookies 

[Kimmi]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

The malcontent was saying "communicate with me and treat me fairly." Other players are going to notice. Players started to not like Bloom here. More players will tune out Breslow and that is going to impact Cora more and more. The whole organization is on a bad path with their bad culture. It rots from the top down (JH). 

I agree that there was a lack of communication and that the FO handled the entire Devers/Bregman situation poorly from the start.  That said, I am thinking players in the clubhouse were more upset with Devers refusal to play 1B than they were in support of him, though they would not publicly voice that.  In other words, I'm not sure that players will start tuning out Breslow.  I think they understand.

Going forward, communication does have to improve.

[Nick]

10 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

The team took a big hit talent wise, for sure.  Devers is one of the best hitters in the league, and his production will be hard to replace.  Ownership is obviously looking more towards next year and beyond than they are looking at this year.  I'm not saying that they're giving up on this season, but that they had to protect future of the kids.

At least this somewhat alleviates the logjam.

It took me 5 minutes to move on.....what can any of us do?

I've just become a stronger believer in solidifying the pitching staff more than anything else is our #1 priority.

Look how things have changed the last week with our starters putting up solid numbers, going deep into games.

We're second in AL in almost every offensive category behind the Yankees but we're hovering at .500 level. That's all I need to know.

You need superior pitching to win consistently in this league. 

Having a Crochet is good start.

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

Moon do you have any idea where the Sox stand in terms of payroll now and where they rank in MLB??

Spotrac has us 18th, and I think it is up to date, because I think we were higher, before the Devers trade.

When you look at the massive amount of money that comes off the books, this winter and more if options and opt outs all or mostly come out on the side of players leaving our budget.

There are so many options (mutual vs team- buy outs or not) and opt outs that it's almost impossible to come up with a solid number. Even coming up with a range is difficult.

If the plan is to spend up to the tax line, this coming winter, it's safe to say our GM will have a boatload of money to spend. Spending wisely is another issue, altogether.

I'll try to break it all down, later. I don't feel up to it, now. Cots has us $76M under the tax line, next year. I think that is counting Bregman staying.

[dgalehouse]

10 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

no doubt Devers was a bit of a head case but he did own the Yankees and I sure hope you don't think Henry is going to let Breslow spend a good portion of that money saved>

Dever's bat will be missed. His attitude will not be missed. He was paid a lot of money. But he would not hustle and set an example for the younger guys. He was insubordinate to the General Manager and possibly the owner. No organization needs that kind of employee.  The Sox will be fine without him, both now and in the long run. 

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

You can’t have a player telling management where he will or will not play. It sets a horrible precedent in the clubhouse-especially with the younger players. No doubt Brelow could have handled it better but at the end of the day it’s HIS decision how the roster is constructed and input from the players isn’t necessary. 
I read an article saying that when you sign a contract for $313M there comes with it the responsibility to do what is best for the team. Devers didn’t hold up his end of the deal. 

 

It took me 17 paragraphs to say this.

I agree, but would add that management is not blameless in this debacle, as well.

The lack of effective communication has been an issue for so long, that it not being fixed lands in JH's lap.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Spotrac has us 18th, and I think it is up to date, because I think we were higher, before the Devers trade.

That's only if you're looking at "active payroll" for the 26 man roster. That number is meaningless.

It excludes:

Bregman

Masa

Hicks

Hendriks

Sandoval

Houck

Crawford

etc

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I agree that there was a lack of communication and that the FO handled the entire Devers/Bregman situation poorly from the start.  That said, I am thinking players in the clubhouse were more upset with Devers refusal to play 1B than they were in support of him, though they would not publicly voice that.  In other words, I'm not sure that players will start tuning out Breslow.  I think they understand.

Going forward, communication does have to improve.

Breslow doesn't know how to communicate. It will not improve on his end. Players will not be able to deal with it. We'll see this situation again. 

[Kimmi]

2 hours ago, dgalehouse said:

We probably don't know the whole story here. It could be that Devers has a bad attitude, and they don't want that rubbing off on the young players.  Devers is a very good hitter, but he is not nearly the player that Mookie is. He is being paid more than he is worth.  So, I think folks are overreacting a bit to this trade. There is still a lot of talent on this team. And they just proved that the Yankees are very beatable.  This is no reason to give up on the season. And I don't mean this as a defense of John Henry. I am no fan of his. But I do think Breslow knows what he is doing here.  

100%

You are making too much sense.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

Dever's bat will be missed. His attitude will not be missed. He was paid a lot of money. But he would not hustle and set an example for the younger guys. He was insubordinate to the General Manager and possibly the owner. No organization needs that kind of employee.  The Sox will be fine without him, both now and in the long run. 

I don't disagree, except we wont be "fine" for the rest of 2025, in terms of putting a winning team on the field.

I was happy, when we traded Nomar, and told my family, the trade could help us win a ring. I don't feel our team got better on the field, with this trade. We may have gotten better once Harrison and Tibbs make a mark, but that may be 1-3 years from now.

Once again, eyes will be on our winter spending and how well we do spending. Our track record on big spending has not been good, since DD, the Bregman signing as a possible exception.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

That's only if you're looking at "active payroll" for the 26 man roster. That number is meaningless.

It excludes:

Bregman

Masa

Hicks

Hendriks

Sandoval

Houck

Crawford

etc

Well, that's what we are paying. Every team as sunken costs, just not as much as we do.

The Astros have done fine with 3-5 of their best SP'ers out, almost continuously for several years in a row.

[Kimmi]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Big Papi says:

“Players need to take this as an example, nobody is indispensable," Ortiz said. "You have to be available, that was the end of the relationship between Devers and the Red Sox. You need to be smart to understand the situation. Your worst enemy is your ego.” 

David actually adds another criticism to the pile there - Raffy's reluctance to talk to the media.  That bothered the team as well.

As far as I recall, Papi had always been a huge fan/supporter of Devers.  For him to say this is saying something.  He speaks the truth.

[jdc69]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

Bottom line is this....perhaps they painted themselves into a corner.....

It goes back to looking for a better defender at 3B that can also hit and they found it. I would think that the team thought this through before signing Bregman. What to do with Devers? Casas was healthy. 

Then it just came down to thinking that they had a noose around their neck with a DH making $30M a year for next 8 years.

No one forced Brez into this situation. I would really love to hear what their long term plans were at the Bregman signing. 

It really doesnt sound like a long term plan. It was near the end of having available RHB's to buy and there was nobody left. I personally think Alonso wouldve been a neater, less intrusive signing. Worse D but more power and a happier clubhouse with parts that actually fit together. It irks me that last years club was good but just needed to be a little better, instead they tear the whole thing to shreds. No momentum building.

[Hitch]

5 hours ago, notin said:

I’m a firm believer very few top free agents prioritize winning over money when signing deals.  This trade will mean nothing to those players. All the Sox have to do is make competitive offers.   Of course, that has been an issue in the past and there is no reason to believe it will change any time soon..

I'm not so sure. I don't think it's the main reason for sure, but we've seen the Giants strike out on several big name players despite matching the money because they didn't look like a club in a good spot at the time. 

It's OTT example, but if the A's offer you $320m, and the Padres offer you $300m, you're going to the Padres. 

[illinoisredsox]

6 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

It really doesnt sound like a long term plan. It was near the end of having available RHB's to buy and there was nobody left. I personally think Alonso wouldve been a neater, less intrusive signing. Worse D but more power and a happier clubhouse with parts that actually fit together. It irks me that last years club was good but just needed to be a little better, instead they tear the whole thing to shreds. No momentum building.

Alonso really didn’t want to leave the Mets.  Given what they paid for Soto, I think they would have outbid the Sox for Alonso as well.

[Hitch]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

🫣

It's just frustrating. You want to be invested in the team and they do this nonsense right when fans start to get excited again. They've 100% decided to punt this year. There's just no way they can get into the playoffs now. 

Without Raffy, the top of the order looks even more ST than before. I don't expect Toro/Romy to produce all year. I don't even expect Narvaez to hit as well as he has. All the catching will wear on him. Masa needs to get on a hot streak. And Breggie can't cool down. Anthony/Mayer/Campbell aren't going to be 850 OPS guys this season. They'll be streaky, but you can't count on them they way you will be able to in future years. Story? Rollercoaster. 

I hear you. I don't disagree with any of this. 

I did wonder if this precedes a huge deal for a pitcher coming up. But that may well be me just looking for something that isn't there. 

I do think moving Hicks back the bullpen will see him return to the form before the Giants tried to make him a SP. Not that it makes it too much more palatable. 

[illinoisredsox]

6 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

As far as I recall, Papi had always been a huge fan/supporter of Devers.  For him to say this is saying something.  He speaks the truth.

As I recall, Ortiz said Devers should consider playing first.  If you won’t  listen to Big Papi …

[Tedballgame]

3 hours ago, Nick said:

Geez, this was nothing more than a salary dump. Not many teams can take on that contract.

Right or wrong, organization did not want Devers around young players. 

 

[moonslav59]

Soxprospects,com projects Tibbs to be ranked 6-8 on their rankings list. They mentioned how the Sox were interested in him, last summer, and how he was taken right after Montgomery.

Several reports mention the high upside potential of K Harrison and the low level pitching prospect, J Bello.

[dgalehouse]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I don't disagree, except we wont be "fine" for the rest of 2025, in terms of putting a winning team on the field.

I was happy, when we traded Nomar, and told my family, the trade could help us win a ring. I don't feel our team got better on the field, with this trade. We may have gotten better once Harrison and Tibbs make a mark, but that may be 1-3 years from now.

Once again, eyes will be on our winter spending and how well we do spending. Our track record on big spending has not been good, since DD, the Bregman signing as a possible exception.

I think the Sox will continue to win without Devers. They are playing with a renewed confidence.