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Posted
7 minutes ago, dannycater said:

My only problem with Devers was that he refused to speak English in interviews...I think he should have and should still learn the English language as so many others in all sports have done to better communicate with the mainstream media in the U.S. But other than that, I appreciated his career as a Sox and his talent and hitting. He was a part of the 18 Sox champs and I'm sad to see him go.

He was the last remaining member of that great 2018 team.  They are all gone now.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Nick said:

This one is for Moon.

Noah Song pitched 2 innings for Portland last night. 0 runs, 1 hit and 3 K's. He's 29 now. Maybe someone will write a song about him when he finally gets to the majors. Talk about never giving up. 

I do seem to gravitate towards all the marginal pitchers we have that still have a morsel of promise.

One of these days, one will surprise us. Oh wait, nobody thought Dobbins would do much.

Posted
48 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

All depends on the pitching.  Giolito, Buehler, Crochet, Dobbins, Bello, all just pitched excellent games.  And I'll be the first to admit I didn't see 5 good starts in a row coming. 

We only scored 15 runs in the 5 games but won them all.

Amen.  The Sox have stayed at right about 6th in scoring in MLB for the whole season, with or without Bregman.  But the team ERA has been as low as 23d and is now 20th.  

So what does that mean?  It means the Sox have every reason to cough up  a terrific but overpaid DH if the money saved can be spent on pitching.  On top of that, we Devers was no longer happy to be on this team and management felt the same way.  

Posted
Just now, Maxbialystock said:

Amen.  The Sox have stayed at right about 6th in scoring in MLB for the whole season, with or without Bregman.  But the team ERA has been as low as 23d and is now 20th.  

So what does that mean?  It means the Sox have every reason to cough up  a terrific but overpaid DH if the money saved can be spent on pitching.  On top of that, we Devers was no longer happy to be on this team and management felt the same way.  

Starting pitching is the key! 
 

didn’t earl weaver once say it was amazing how everything in baseball revolves around the bump????

Posted
37 minutes ago, dannycater said:

My only problem with Devers was that he refused to speak English in interviews...I think he should have and should still learn the English language as so many others in all sports have done to better communicate with the mainstream media in the U.S. But other than that, I appreciated his career as a Sox and his talent and hitting. He was a part of the 18 Sox champs and I'm sad to see him go.

Good points.  I suspect Devers struggles with languages.   Plus, let's face it, he knew he was good and there is no shortage of interpreters.  When the Sox signed him for 10 years and $330M, learning English wasn't in the contract.  I'll bet the majority of Americans playing in Japan know very little Japanese.   And don't most of our Japanese players need interpreters?  

 

Posted
15 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Starting pitching is the key! 
 

didn’t earl weaver once say it was amazing how everything in baseball revolves around the bump????

I think he also said "the key to winning is pitching, fundamentals, and three-run homers."  

Posted
Batters BOS B HR RBI SB AVG OPS
L 5 38 14 .264 .736
Toro1B
S 5 12 0 .317 .885
L 0 3 0 .059 .276
R 6 23 1 .286 .833
Mayer3B
L 3 5 0 .224 .747
StorySS
R 9 36 11 .234 .638
L 2 8 12 .188 .510
R 6 26 10 .253 .698
R 6 21 2 .225 .675

Sox Line Up for those curious...our Rookies are batting 3,4,5 and 9. 1st to DH? Campbell.

Who is hitting 2nd in Devers' spot? Toro.

 

Posted
35 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Amen.  The Sox have stayed at right about 6th in scoring in MLB for the whole season, with or without Bregman.  But the team ERA has been as low as 23d and is now 20th.  

So what does that mean?  It means the Sox have every reason to cough up  a terrific but overpaid DH if the money saved can be spent on pitching.  On top of that, we Devers was no longer happy to be on this team and management felt the same way.  

Part of being higher ranked in runs scored is our home park. Another part is that we've played 1-3 games more than most teams, since the week 2-3 in the season.

Our ERA suffers from Fenway, a little bit.

We are 6th in OPS and 10th in wRC+, so maybe 5-10th in O is more accurate.

We are 15th in ERA- and 10th or 11th in xFIP and FIP-, so maybe we are 10th to 15th in pitching.

The defensive metrics place us between 11th (DRS) and 17th (OAA), so maybe near average, but I feel we are more like 20th to 25th.

Posted
3 hours ago, Kimmi said:

This deal wasn't about the return package.  It was about ridding themselves of the massive contract (a big plus) because they felt the need to rid themselves of a player that they felt was selfish.  Devers was not setting a good example for the many young players on this team.  He was not providing good player  leadership, something this team sorely needs.

The FO sent a message that they don't care how big a superstar you are and how much money you're getting paid, the team comes first. 

Hi Kimmi, haven't seen you in a while (I lurk a lot).  I get what you are saying but sorry losing a player like this over money and a diva attitude, when teams accept this to keep a star player happy for generations is a little hard to take after the Mookie trade and all the other moves meant to save money and not build a winner.  

So what if they rid themselves of a very expensive DH?  it's not like I expect them to put that money into a winning offer for Vlad Guerrero or anything like that.  Instead we will suck, again, because the owner does not care about winning.

As a 60 year Sox fan iInever expected this to happen.  

Posted
17 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Hi Kimmi, haven't seen you in a while (I lurk a lot).  I get what you are saying but sorry losing a player like this over money and a diva attitude, when teams accept this to keep a star player happy for generations is a little hard to take after the Mookie trade and all the other moves meant to save money and not build a winner.  

So what if they rid themselves of a very expensive DH?  it's not like I expect them to put that money into a winning offer for Vlad Guerrero or anything like that.  Instead we will suck, again, because the owner does not care about winning.

As a 60 year Sox fan iInever expected this to happen.  

So John Henry and co. we're willing to go 700 Million for Juan Soto, bid 40M × 3 for Alex Bregman, traded multiple stud prospects for, and then signed Garrett Crochet because "they dont care" about winning???

 

Cool story, Bro.....

Posted

MLB.com has an article on reactions from other team execs. Here are some quotes...

Some of this stuff is similar to what we have said, other statements offer some new insights.

“Is this trade real?”

I think history would show that if you could get out of every long deal after two years, you’d be in great shape,” an AL executive said.

“I think it gives Boston the opportunity to reset and repurpose a lot of money,”

“On the surface, it feels like a relationship gone bad that was mismanaged from the beginning,” an AL exec said. “This is probably a welcome outcome.”

“It’s a pretty good return considering that Boston didn’t have many options,” an AL executive said. “I think there was a path to get him to first base -- maybe in 2026 -- but that would have required some serious diplomacy on [chief baseball officer Craig] Breslow’s part. And in the meantime, they had nowhere to go with [DH Masataka] Yoshida. I was surprised they got real talent back while moving all of that money.”

“The Red Sox are worse today, but I wouldn’t want to touch the Devers contract,” an AL executive said. “Harrison could be solid. It’s a good deal for the Red Sox in the long run. That’s a long time for a DH to be under contract.”

“It’s crazy for a team to trade a player in year two of a 10-year deal – and maybe even crazier for another team to take on the entire remainder of that player’s contract, particularly when he’s been so outspoken about what positions he is and isn’t willing to play,” an NL executive said.

Devers’ contract is already underwater. Giving up Harrison and Tibbs in order to take on an underwater contract is tough. This will look fine for San Francisco in the short-term, but has the strong potential to crush them when paired with Adames’ contract a few years from now.”

“What the general public never factors into their knee-jerk trade reactions is what the teams trading away the large contract can now go do with those dollars,” an NL executive said. “Boston should go trade for someone like [Brewers first baseman] Rhys Hoskins right now. Then the deal takes on a whole new dimension.”

“They definitely got some good players with upside, so when you combine those guys with whatever they get with the repurposed Devers money, I think the Red Sox did well,” an NL executive said. “But far more important than the player return is the fact that they were able to move Devers and all of his money. They just signed him, so to have changed their mind on that kind of commitment so quickly really means that they felt they had to move him, which is a really difficult spot to be in. They moved quickly, kept it quiet, and pulled it off.”

 

Posted
23 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Part of being higher ranked in runs scored is our home park. Another part is that we've played 1-3 games more than most teams, since the week 2-3 in the season.

Our ERA suffers from Fenway, a little bit.

We are 6th in OPS and 10th in wRC+, so maybe 5-10th in O is more accurate.

We are 15th in ERA- and 10th or 11th in xFIP and FIP-, so maybe we are 10th to 15th in pitching.

The defensive metrics place us between 11th (DRS) and 17th (OAA), so maybe near average, but I feel we are more like 20th to 25th.

Agree on Fenway effect, agree on more games played by Sox.  But right now the Sox are 5th in runs scored and the 6th team, the Tigers, have also played 73 games.  So the Sox are a legit 5th, and that's where they were in 2021 when they made the postseason and then the ALCS.  

What is wRC+ ?  

ESPN says the Sox ERA, 3.96, is tied with the Mariners for 17th.  They were 15th in ERA in 2021, so maybe, as you say, they are competitive.  

I like our defense this year more than you do and think only 2b and 1b are problems.  RF, CF, 3B and C are all above average.  SS is steady with a DWAR of +0.4.  LF is 0.0, but Duran is 5th in putouts.  

Posted
4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

MLB.com has an article on reactions from other team execs. Here are some quotes...

Some of this stuff is similar to what we have said, other statements offer some new insights.

“Is this trade real?”

I think history would show that if you could get out of every long deal after two years, you’d be in great shape,” an AL executive said.

“I think it gives Boston the opportunity to reset and repurpose a lot of money,”

“On the surface, it feels like a relationship gone bad that was mismanaged from the beginning,” an AL exec said. “This is probably a welcome outcome.”

“It’s a pretty good return considering that Boston didn’t have many options,” an AL executive said. “I think there was a path to get him to first base -- maybe in 2026 -- but that would have required some serious diplomacy on [chief baseball officer Craig] Breslow’s part. And in the meantime, they had nowhere to go with [DH Masataka] Yoshida. I was surprised they got real talent back while moving all of that money.”

“The Red Sox are worse today, but I wouldn’t want to touch the Devers contract,” an AL executive said. “Harrison could be solid. It’s a good deal for the Red Sox in the long run. That’s a long time for a DH to be under contract.”

“It’s crazy for a team to trade a player in year two of a 10-year deal – and maybe even crazier for another team to take on the entire remainder of that player’s contract, particularly when he’s been so outspoken about what positions he is and isn’t willing to play,” an NL executive said.

Devers’ contract is already underwater. Giving up Harrison and Tibbs in order to take on an underwater contract is tough. This will look fine for San Francisco in the short-term, but has the strong potential to crush them when paired with Adames’ contract a few years from now.”

“What the general public never factors into their knee-jerk trade reactions is what the teams trading away the large contract can now go do with those dollars,” an NL executive said. “Boston should go trade for someone like [Brewers first baseman] Rhys Hoskins right now. Then the deal takes on a whole new dimension.”

“They definitely got some good players with upside, so when you combine those guys with whatever they get with the repurposed Devers money, I think the Red Sox did well,” an NL executive said. “But far more important than the player return is the fact that they were able to move Devers and all of his money. They just signed him, so to have changed their mind on that kind of commitment so quickly really means that they felt they had to move him, which is a really difficult spot to be in. They moved quickly, kept it quiet, and pulled it off.”

 

Gold star for moonslav.  I love all of them because that's the way I feel--and I have defended Devers all season long.  

Posted
1 minute ago, Maxbialystock said:

Agree on Fenway effect, agree on more games played by Sox.  But right now the Sox are 5th in runs scored and the 6th team, the Tigers, have also played 73 games.  So the Sox are a legit 5th, and that's where they were in 2021 when they made the postseason and then the ALCS.  

What is wRC+ ?  

ESPN says the Sox ERA, 3.96, is tied with the Mariners for 17th.  They were 15th in ERA in 2021, so maybe, as you say, they are competitive.  

I like our defense this year more than you do and think only 2b and 1b are problems.  RF, CF, 3B and C are all above average.  SS is steady with a DWAR of +0.4.  LF is 0.0, but Duran is 5th in putouts.  

ERA- makes adjustments based on park factor and other influences.

wRC+ is weighted Runs Created, which also factors in park and other influences.

Both are better indicators of how well our team is doing when compared to others.

I agree our D is better. I thought we were bottom 3-5 in 2024 and are maybe 20th to 23rd, this year.

I'd say our O is about 10th and our pitching about 15th. I'd be okay with 10-15-20.

Posted
6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

MLB.com has an article on reactions from other team execs. Here are some quotes...

Some of this stuff is similar to what we have said, other statements offer some new insights.

“Is this trade real?”

I think history would show that if you could get out of every long deal after two years, you’d be in great shape,” an AL executive said.

“I think it gives Boston the opportunity to reset and repurpose a lot of money,”

“On the surface, it feels like a relationship gone bad that was mismanaged from the beginning,” an AL exec said. “This is probably a welcome outcome.”

“It’s a pretty good return considering that Boston didn’t have many options,” an AL executive said. “I think there was a path to get him to first base -- maybe in 2026 -- but that would have required some serious diplomacy on [chief baseball officer Craig] Breslow’s part. And in the meantime, they had nowhere to go with [DH Masataka] Yoshida. I was surprised they got real talent back while moving all of that money.”

“The Red Sox are worse today, but I wouldn’t want to touch the Devers contract,” an AL executive said. “Harrison could be solid. It’s a good deal for the Red Sox in the long run. That’s a long time for a DH to be under contract.”

“It’s crazy for a team to trade a player in year two of a 10-year deal – and maybe even crazier for another team to take on the entire remainder of that player’s contract, particularly when he’s been so outspoken about what positions he is and isn’t willing to play,” an NL executive said.

Devers’ contract is already underwater. Giving up Harrison and Tibbs in order to take on an underwater contract is tough. This will look fine for San Francisco in the short-term, but has the strong potential to crush them when paired with Adames’ contract a few years from now.”

“What the general public never factors into their knee-jerk trade reactions is what the teams trading away the large contract can now go do with those dollars,” an NL executive said. “Boston should go trade for someone like [Brewers first baseman] Rhys Hoskins right now. Then the deal takes on a whole new dimension.”

“They definitely got some good players with upside, so when you combine those guys with whatever they get with the repurposed Devers money, I think the Red Sox did well,” an NL executive said. “But far more important than the player return is the fact that they were able to move Devers and all of his money. They just signed him, so to have changed their mind on that kind of commitment so quickly really means that they felt they had to move him, which is a really difficult spot to be in. They moved quickly, kept it quiet, and pulled it off.”

 

“But far more important than the player return is the fact that they were able to move Devers and all of his money."

There you have it....quit bitching about the return. If we get any upside, we win the trade.

The new word of the Day....REPURPOSE....yep it matters the most how we REPURPOSE the money we saved, $240M or so.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

Good points.  I suspect Devers struggles with languages.   Plus, let's face it, he knew he was good and there is no shortage of interpreters.  When the Sox signed him for 10 years and $330M, learning English wasn't in the contract.  I'll bet the majority of Americans playing in Japan know very little Japanese.   And don't most of our Japanese players need interpreters?  

 

Thats why Alfonso Soriano was the most useful teammate - fluent in English, Spanish and Japanese…

Old-Timey Member
Posted
12 minutes ago, Nick said:

“But far more important than the player return is the fact that they were able to move Devers and all of his money."

There you have it....quit bitching about the return. If we get any upside, we win the trade.

The new word of the Day....REPURPOSE....yep it matters the most how we REPURPOSE the money we saved, $240M or so.

Out of curiosity, what did the Sox spend the $300mill earmarked for Betts on?

Posted
21 minutes ago, notin said:

Out of curiosity, what did the Sox spend the $300mill earmarked for Betts on?

Notin'

Posted
31 minutes ago, notin said:

Out of curiosity, what did the Sox spend the $300mill earmarked for Betts on?

That made the whole thing even worse. Then, they failed to replace Porcello & ERod's money. JD and Nates... and on and on...

Posted
46 minutes ago, Nick said:

“But far more important than the player return is the fact that they were able to move Devers and all of his money."

There you have it....quit bitching about the return. If we get any upside, we win the trade.

The new word of the Day....REPURPOSE....yep it matters the most how we REPURPOSE the money we saved, $240M or so.

I thought the same thing about the GM jargon, "repurpose."

Posted

I thought the Rys Hoskins comment was interesting, but I guess as long as Toro and Romy are bridging us back to Casas, maybe we look for some expensive pitcher... but a good one.

Posted
11 hours ago, king koji said:

So John Henry and co. we're willing to go 700 Million for Juan Soto, bid 40M × 3 for Alex Bregman, traded multiple stud prospects for, and then signed Garrett Crochet because "they dont care" about winning???

 

Cool story, Bro.....

Have you checked the standings the last few years as well as this season, Bro?  It's as if you are totally unaware that your Boston Red Sox are currently 23rd in MLB in payroll vs revenue at only  42%.  Is being 23rd really trying to win or would that be about prioritizing the bottom line? Please answer this question.

I think it's foolish to believe things will change and JH will take this Devers money and turn it into a better player.  No the smart bet is he will continue to pocket a good bit of this new money continue his trend of profitability over winning.  

I have no idea why any fan would make a post such as you just did.  Last place, ,500, and and very likely a losing record in 2025 with low expectations for '26 is where we are now.  It didn't used to be this way.  .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted
45 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Have you checked the standings the last few years as well as this season, Bro?  It's as if you are totally unaware that your Boston Red Sox are currently 23rd in MLB in payroll vs revenue at only  42%.  Is being 23rd really trying to win or would that be about prioritizing the bottom line? Please answer this question.

I think it's foolish to believe things will change and JH will take this Devers money and turn it into a better player.  No the smart bet is he will continue to pocket a good bit of this new money continue his trend of profitability over winning.  

I have no idea why any fan would make a post such as you just did.  Last place, ,500, and and very likely a losing record in 2025 with low expectations for '26 is where we are now.  It didn't used to be this way.  .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile the team is actually playing pretty good right now.

Posted

More from Big Papi:

"You cannot imagine how many times I wrote to Devers trying to give him advice...he almost never returned my messages."

Wow.  Pretty strange that Devers wouldn't communicate with Ortiz, who would seem like one of the first people on the planet he should be listening to.

Posted
56 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

More from Big Papi:

"You cannot imagine how many times I wrote to Devers trying to give him advice...he almost never returned my messages."

Wow.  Pretty strange that Devers wouldn't communicate with Ortiz, who would seem like one of the first people on the planet he should be listening to.

That is an interesting tidbit. 

Regardless of anything else, Devers really acted poorly at times these past few months.

Posted
Just now, Hitch said:

That is an interesting tidbit. 

Regardless of anything else, Devers really acted poorly at times these past few months.

You also have to look at last year when he was going bad and not talking to reporters.

Community Moderator
Posted

I watched the Sam/Breslow press conference last night and it was interesting. Breslow had no opening comments and everything he said was in answer to a question.

Breslow stated that this was a baseball decision and that it would help the on field product. How? He said the team could be more versatile and that maybe they could use the payroll flexibility to add at the deadline. He liked the return and thought Hicks would be a good setup guy and Harrison could add to the rotation at some point. 

Was this the best trade he could get for Raffy? Probably not, but it was the trade he could get right now. He liked the return. Maybe no trade would really be worth it. There was no mandate from ownership for the other team to take on the entire deal (this is contrary to reports that came out afterwards).

He did say that he needed to show some humility and take ownership of his portion of the communication issues. However, as of this moment, he still has not spoken with anyone on the 26 man roster about the trade. That's kinda weird, right? 

The main issue came down to Devers not wanting to play 1B when asked and generally fitting with "Red Sox culture." What is Red Sox culture? To Breslow, it's probably just a powerpoint slide he put up on the wall at some point and said "this is what we are." However, that's not the Red Sox culture. The Red Sox culture is an owner that flip flops and doesn't like to spend, Sam Kennedy who puts his foot in his mouth, a CBO that doesn't communicate, a manager who doesn't get along with the CBO and a team that ignores the FO. 

There were conversations with "Raffy's team" during ST and after and they expressed that if it's not working out for both parties, maybe a trade would be fine. He used some weasel words here. It wasn't that Raffy "demanded" or "requested" a trade, just that he wouldn't fuss over one. Raffy's team was very surprised when the deal was done and weren't really expecting it. 

Sam was asked about his comments stating that Raffy would be ready to play 1b soon. He said that he shouldn't have said it that he only said it because he saw him taking IF practice on the NESN monitors and made an assumption. WTH? 

They were asked about the JH meeting in KC. The conversation was "frank." I think JH was hoping that he'd be able to get Raffy to put the past aside and move on, but it was probably going to take time and effort on multiple parties. Seems like the Sox just wanted to put all that communication and reconciliation on Raffy. Not ideal. If they waited it out and worked on the relationship this offseason, I think they could have figured things out. 

 

*****

IMO, Breslow didn't like the contract. When he had his issue with Raffy, he didn't feel like figuring it out. The easiest route was to simply trade him. A lot of the reporters were questioning how this was a "baseball move" as it seems to make the Sox a worse team this year. Breslow kept deflecting that point. I think he looks more into the value of the contract vs what Raffy actually does on the field and how to replace that production. This is the risk you run when you have a first time CBO. There's going to be a learning curve. The further away we get from DD, the more I just want a guy like that back. 

Community Moderator
Posted
2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

You also have to look at last year when he was going bad and not talking to reporters.

I don't care about that. Players in the clubhouse don't care about that. Of all the things to care about, that's very low on the list. 

Posted
1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't care about that. Players in the clubhouse don't care about that. Of all the things to care about, that's very low on the list. 

I think his bosses cared about it.  They wanted him to be "the face" and he wanted no part of it. 

 

 

Community Moderator
Posted

The Joon Lee article had some interesting tidbits. https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/inside-the-absolute-s-show-that-led-to-the-boston-red-soxs-trade-of-rafael-devers-220018400.html

Meanwhile, Breslow has grown increasingly insulated. Multiple sources within the organization describe a front office losing cohesion. Staffers who helped build four championship teams — veterans of the Theo Epstein, Ben Cherington, Dave Dombrowski and Bloom regimes — now feel shut out of the operation. The collaborative spirit that once defined Red Sox baseball operations has frayed.

One of the clearest signals came during an internal team Zoom meeting earlier this season. Toward the end, Carl Moesche — the Red Sox’s scouting supervisor and a team employee since 2017 — thought the call had ended. It hadn’t. As the meeting wrapped, his voice cut through a quiet moment.

“Thanks, Bres, you f***ing stiff,” Moesche said, according to two team sources.

The words landed like a grenade, and Breslow fired Moesche.

 

The internal strain has bled into how the Red Sox handle their players, too.

The coaching staff has grown frustrated with the state of player development, specifically how much emphasis is placed on swing mechanics and hitting data, often at the expense of fundamentals. That imbalance, coaches believe, traces back to the Bloom era and has only accelerated under Breslow. One example cited is rookie Kristian Campbell, who has made a string of routine errors at second base since being called up. He’s not alone; as a team, the Red Sox lead all of baseball with 64 errors, one more than the Colorado Rockies and 17 more than the third-place Los Angeles Angels.

Another error came during Roman Anthony’s debut, when he misplayed a ball in right field. The next day, Anthony was sent out to run outfield drills in front of the media. Multiple people in the organization noted that under previous regimes, that kind of instruction would’ve taken place behind closed doors. This time, it felt like a message from the coaching staff to the front office. One team source described the message as deliberate: “This is what we still have to teach, at the big-league level.”

 

But to reduce this entire saga to Devers’ shortcomings is to miss the point. His unwillingness to move to first base wasn’t just a personal decision. It was a reaction to a team that no longer made sense around him.

Inside the clubhouse, players watched as the coaching staff publicly flagged Roman Anthony’s defensive fundamentals as a slight to the front office. They saw teammates asked to switch positions on the fly. They witnessed Cora trying to win baseball games while benching the team’s top prospects. In the front office, scouts were fired over slights, veteran leaders with deep organizational trust were iced out, and the communication from Breslow dried up. According to multiple sources, Devers was also upset when the rookie Campbell volunteered to play first base this season — interpreting it as a slight to his own stature.

In the end, though, Devers was still hitting and was ready to move past the early-season drama. Breslow saw things differently, saw the slugger as a problem that needed to be solved. For him, the trust was gone. And now, so is Devers.

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