A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Bellhorn04]

As I've said before, the mark of a bad team.

 

I think we've been brilliantly mediocre.

[mvp 78]

As I've said before, the mark of a bad team.

 

No, it's the mark of a mediocre team. This team is mediocre. They are a .500 team.

[mvp 78]

I think we've been brilliantly mediocre.

 

LOL.

 

Maybe even more mediocre than last year's!

[Dipre]

No, it's the mark of a mediocre team. This team is mediocre. They are a .500 team.

 

But I think they'll end up being more bad than mediocre as the pitching injuries pile up. Not my wish, just my gut.

[Bellhorn04]

But I think they'll end up being more bad than mediocre as the pitching injuries pile up. Not my wish, just my gut.

 

Plus if they fall further back by the deadline, they'll likely trade Paxton etc., and the full death spiral will be on.

[mvp 78]

Plus if they fall further back by the deadline, they'll likely trade Paxton etc., and the full death spiral will be on.

 

They'll be just close enough to be in shouting distance of the third WC!

[Bellhorn04]

They'll be just close enough to be in shouting distance of the third WC!

 

No, they made that mistake last year.

[mvp 78]

No, they made that mistake last year.

 

"I'll f***in do it again" Goofy at his trial

[moonslav59]

I think we've been brilliantly mediocre.

 

Are you saying it’s a brilliant job we got up to mediocrity so quickly after 2019-20?

 

Lol!

[mvp 78]

Dalbec optioned. Verdugo back.

[moonslav59]

We are one game from the halfway point of the season with a near equal chance at being 41-40 or 40-41.

 

We all had hopes we'd be better, after a few teases, earlier in the season, but with every tease has come an offsetting letdown, and here we are.

 

My hopes and optimism are waning but not extinguished.

 

I'm not sure why I have more hope than I had last year, especially with our IL list growing, daily, but as of now, I still do.

 

[Bellhorn04]

We are one game from the halfway point of the season with a near equal chance at being 41-40 or 40-41.

 

We all had hopes we'd be better, after a few teases, earlier in the season, but with every tease has come an offsetting letdown, and here we are.

 

My hopes and optimism are waning but not extinguished.

 

I'm not sure why I have more hope than I had last year, especially with our IL list growing, daily, but as of now, I still do.

 

 

I think the 2023 team is cooked, because our rotation is in tatters. We don't even have a starter listed for tonight, so it'll probably be Ort.

 

The only thing that could give me one shred of optimism is if Paxton's knee isn't a big deal, but that feels like a long shot.

[Dipre]

I'd agree if they could, you know, not suck on offense half the games.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd agree if they could, you know, not suck on offense half the games.

 

Like you've been saying, it's a bad team.

[Dipre]

This roster is not cohesive. It's fixable, but for next season. This year, they're cooked, and I'm honestly ok with that if it's the beginning of an actual sustainable contender. That take might piss some people off, but I just remember when I was a kid and the Sox were either oh so bad, or oh so close, but never reached the pinnacle. Now they've won 4 championships since the turn of the millennium, and we want a perennial contender. I see seasons like this (although again, they FUBAR'd this roster) as a stepping stone to that. Just my opinion though, y'all are welcome to disagree.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This roster is not cohesive. It's fixable, but for next season. This year, they're cooked, and I'm honestly ok with that if it's the beginning of an actual sustainable contender. That take might piss some people off, but I just remember when I was a kid and the Sox were either oh so bad, or oh so close, but never reached the pinnacle. Now they've won 4 championships since the turn of the millennium, and we want a perennial contender. I see seasons like this (although again, they FUBAR'd this roster) as a stepping stone to that. Just my opinion though, y'all are welcome to disagree.

 

I was a kid in the late-60s when I started rooting Red Sox, and they had a winning ballclub every year -- over .500 and usually contending through the summer -- from '67 through '82... They never won it all, but some of those teams were powerhouses in the Seventies when only two division winners in each league made the playoffs.

 

The Sox were always entertaining with Hall of Famers and plenty of All-Stars, young studs who they usually made sure to keep in Boston at least through their primes -- except for underestimating the value of Fisk-Lynn-Tiant, which briefly led to the first fallow period. Then Boggs and Clemens put them back in contention through another decade, and after a few bad years, they got Nomar-Manny-Pedro and eventually rings.

 

Nowadays, which Red Sox players do you look forward to watching? Which guy is a can't-miss at bat? Whose defense do you marvel at for its athletic excellence? What pitcher makes you want to wait in line to buy tickets to see?

[a700hitter]

I was a kid in the late-60s when I started rooting Red Sox, and they had a winning ballclub every year -- over .500 and usually contending through the summer -- from '67 through '82... They never won it all, but some of those teams were powerhouses in the Seventies when only two division winners in each league made the playoffs.

 

The Sox were always entertaining with Hall of Famers and plenty of All-Stars, young studs who they usually made sure to keep in Boston at least through their primes -- except for underestimating the value of Fisk-Lynn-Tiant, which briefly led to the first fallow period. Then Boggs and Clemens put them back in contention through another decade, and after a few bad years, they got Nomar-Manny-Pedro and eventually rings.

 

Nowadays, which Red Sox players do you look forward to watching? Which guy is a can't-miss at bat? Whose defense do you marvel at for its athletic excellence? What pitcher makes you want to wait in line to buy tickets to see?

None. There is no one worth the price of admission on this team. Devers maybe. But not at Fenway prices and Fenway inconvenience and discomfort.

[Dipre]

None. There is no one worth the price of admission on this team. Devers maybe. But not at Fenway prices and Fenway inconvenience and discomfort.

 

I agree with this take. I like some of the kids (Especially Casas) but this team is kind of weird. That's what I meant when I said they're not cohesive. One of the most important things for a team to be fun is for them to play clean baseball and provide exciting moments on both sides of the ball. This team does not play clean baseball and feels a bit subdued.

[mvp 78]

None. There is no one worth the price of admission on this team. Devers maybe. But not at Fenway prices and Fenway inconvenience and discomfort.

 

I agree. It's one thing to sit down and watch some bad baseball on tv, it's another to drag your ass to Fenway and have to deal with all that goes with it including cost and comfort. Without fees, it'd be $180 to get the cheapest seats in the stadium for my family on Thursday night when I'm in town. That's before food and all the other crap.

[notin]

I was a kid in the late-60s when I started rooting Red Sox, and they had a winning ballclub every year -- over .500 and usually contending through the summer -- from '67 through '82... They never won it all, but some of those teams were powerhouses in the Seventies when only two division winners in each league made the playoffs.

 

The Sox were always entertaining with Hall of Famers and plenty of All-Stars, young studs who they usually made sure to keep in Boston at least through their primes -- except for underestimating the value of Fisk-Lynn-Tiant, which briefly led to the first fallow period. Then Boggs and Clemens put them back in contention through another decade, and after a few bad years, they got Nomar-Manny-Pedro and eventually rings.

 

Nowadays, which Red Sox players do you look forward to watching? Which guy is a can't-miss at bat? Whose defense do you marvel at for its athletic excellence? What pitcher makes you want to wait in line to buy tickets to see?

 

I actually don’t care if they have star players or not. (And worth pointing out they didn’t win any with the combos you mentioned, and even had to jettison Nomar to get the first.) I want a competitive team. I think this team is probably better than most do, but I don’t think they’re making any noise after September…

[notin]

On BTV the Sox major leaguer with the most trade value is Jarren Duran. A surplus value of $42mill.

 

With Ceddane Rafaela in Worcester and a dearth of pitching right now, should Duran be the player to move for MLB or MLB-ready controllable pitching?

 

Is this a Sell High opportunity? Or is Duran a star in the making? Will waiting to find out delay the improvement of this team?

[Duran Is The Man]

I actually don’t care if they have star players or not. (And worth pointing out they didn’t win any with the combos you mentioned, and even had to jettison Nomar to get the first.) I want a competitive team. I think this team is probably better than most do, but I don’t think they’re making any noise after September…

 

it might also be worth pointing out that all four of the championship teams (2004, 2007, 2013, 2018) had "future hall of famers, all-stars and young studs".

[Randy Red Sox]

i hate to disappoint you but Duran is NOT bringing back a decent pitching option in a trade. Bloom needs to blow this thing up at the deadline and get back whatever LITTLE he can for Kluber, Janssen, Pivetta, Paxton, Duvall, and Dalbec. I know none of them are worth much but the 2023 Sox are GOING NOWHERE !!!

I actually don’t care if they have star players or not. (And worth pointing out they didn’t win any with the combos you mentioned, and even had to jettison Nomar to get the first.) I want a competitive team. I think this team is probably better than most do, but I don’t think they’re making any noise after September…

[notin]

i hate to disappoint you but Duran is NOT bringing back a decent pitching option in a trade. Bloom needs to blow this thing up at the deadline and get back whatever LITTLE he can for Kluber, Janssen, Pivetta, Paxton, Duvall, and Dalbec. I know none of them are worth much but the 2023 Sox are GOING NOWHERE !!!

 

So let’s get this straight - you think Duran, who is under team control for 5 more years, makes no money, and has been worth 1.2 fWAR in 220 PA (putting him on pace for a 3+ fWAR season) will NOT get any pitching back? But instead the answer is to trade away Kluber, Jansen, Pivetta, Dalbec, Duvall - and for what? You’re not even getting salary relief because only one of them is under contract for next year anyway…

[iortiz]

I was a kid in the late-60s when I started rooting Red Sox, and they had a winning ballclub every year -- over .500 and usually contending through the summer -- from '67 through '82... They never won it all, but some of those teams were powerhouses in the Seventies when only two division winners in each league made the playoffs.

 

The Sox were always entertaining with Hall of Famers and plenty of All-Stars, young studs who they usually made sure to keep in Boston at least through their primes -- except for underestimating the value of Fisk-Lynn-Tiant, which briefly led to the first fallow period. Then Boggs and Clemens put them back in contention through another decade, and after a few bad years, they got Nomar-Manny-Pedro and eventually rings.

 

Nowadays, which Red Sox players do you look forward to watching? Which guy is a can't-miss at bat? Whose defense do you marvel at for its athletic excellence? What pitcher makes you want to wait in line to buy tickets to see?

 

Excellent point. Not sure how we got to this.

[iortiz]

None. There is no one worth the price of admission on this team. Devers maybe. But not at Fenway prices and Fenway inconvenience and discomfort.

 

Yeah, none and they charge like you are watching the dream team. It’s going to be a long time till I go back to Fenway. It does not worth it these days.

[cp176]

I was a kid in the late-60s when I started rooting Red Sox, and they had a winning ballclub every year -- over .500 and usually contending through the summer -- from '67 through '82... They never won it all, but some of those teams were powerhouses in the Seventies when only two division winners in each league made the playoffs.

 

The Sox were always entertaining with Hall of Famers and plenty of All-Stars, young studs who they usually made sure to keep in Boston at least through their primes -- except for underestimating the value of Fisk-Lynn-Tiant, which briefly led to the first fallow period. Then Boggs and Clemens put them back in contention through another decade, and after a few bad years, they got Nomar-Manny-Pedro and eventually rings.

 

Nowadays, which Red Sox players do you look forward to watching? Which guy is a can't-miss at bat? Whose defense do you marvel at for its athletic excellence? What pitcher makes you want to wait in line to buy tickets to see?

 

I agree 100%. Most nights, I don't even tune in. When Bello pitches, I am at least intrigued.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

At least the Red Sox are keeping pace with the Yankees... New York throws a perfect game, Boston fields two perfect games -- ZERO ERRORS!

 

Never mind what your eyes told you (if you were actually watching the last two nights, or at least viewed the lowlights) -- just ask Fenway's official scorers!

 

... really wish some reporter would interview a few Sox pitchers and ask how they feel about the perfect D behind them.

[oldtimer]

The Sox are not a playoff team this year so I believe the best strategy is to accept that idea and start the process of building the best possible team for 2024. Trade guys with value that aren't expected to be there in 2024 anyway. Play the guys more consistently who are expected to be core players. Bring up Mayer in August and let him earn a spot as a FT SS for 2024.

 

Who goes and who stays? Paxton, Duvall, Jansen and Dalbec may be tradeable. Kluber probably not but shouldn't be with the team. Could we move Sale for money owed? How about Story who doesn't figure to play consistently for us and is another underperforming big contract. With Mayer coming, his value to the team is more attuned to 2nd base.

 

We have 3 young starters and perhaps could sign another one or two for the money tied up in Sale and Story.

We have a first pass at am outfield and Devers, possibly Mayer, Arroyo and Casas as starters for the infield. Time for Bloom to act decisively..

[Bellhorn04]

i hate to disappoint you but Duran is NOT bringing back a decent pitching option in a trade. Bloom needs to blow this thing up at the deadline and get back whatever LITTLE he can for Kluber, Janssen, Pivetta, Paxton, Duvall, and Dalbec. I know none of them are worth much but the 2023 Sox are GOING NOWHERE !!!

 

The Sox are not a playoff team this year so I believe the best strategy is to accept that idea and start the process of building the best possible team for 2024. Trade guys with value that aren't expected to be there in 2024 anyway. Play the guys more consistently who are expected to be core players. Bring up Mayer in August and let him earn a spot as a FT SS for 2024.

 

Who goes and who stays? Paxton, Duvall, Jansen and Dalbec may be tradeable. Kluber probably not but shouldn't be with the team. Could we move Sale for money owed? How about Story who doesn't figure to play consistently for us and is another underperforming big contract. With Mayer coming, his value to the team is more attuned to 2nd base.

 

We have 3 young starters and perhaps could sign another one or two for the money tied up in Sale and Story.

We have a first pass at am outfield and Devers, possibly Mayer, Arroyo and Casas as starters for the infield. Time for Bloom to act decisively..

 

Jansen is under contract for 2024 at $16 million. They might get a little for him, but they'd look like they're already giving up on 2024 if they do that.