Xander Bogaerts has signed with San Diego Padres

[moonslav59]

Yes, it's the big picture.

 

It's one thing after another that suggests they really have no clue what they're doing right now.

 

They said they were going to compete while rebuilding, they did a good job of that in 2021, but 2022 was bad and 2023 is looking worse.

 

I do believe they were not lying when they said they plan on adding 8-9 players. They've added 6:

 

Yoshida

Turner

Jansen

Martin

Joely

Mills

(7, if you count Niko Goodrum.)

 

That leaves 2-3 more additions, and we do have $38M to spend and still reset.

 

SP

SS (or RP and Houck to SP)

CF/RF

 

I'm not expecting anything earth-shattering, but to me, we only need 2-3 moderate additions to look significantly better than 2022 (which isn't that hard to do.)

 

SS: Andrus, M Rojas, Mateo

CF: M Taylor or the like

SP: Kluber, Nate or someone like Luzardo or Lopez (maybe taking on AGarcia's salary dump to minimize the return needs.)

 

[moonslav59]

Ok, if you like. Just because it didn’t work out Durant mean he want their top priority, right? After all, that whole concept of “top priority” doesn’t imply any sort of intensity; it just means nothing else was more important at the time.

 

But we do know that they viewed Devers as a DH/1b and the initial offer was comparable to Matt Olson’s contract. Presumably this came up in talks with Devers. So there is the possibility that when negotiating with Bogaerts, the initial talks also included discussions of changing position off shortstop. In the past, Bogaerts has been openly reluctant to change, and I don’t know if he still is. But if he (or his reps) stated the preference was to remain at shortstop, certainly it explains why the Sox didn’t go beyond 4 years initially.

 

It does make me wonder if San Diego broached the subject of changing positions with Bogaerts. Or if they ignored it, or an 11 year deal made Bogaerts more flexible…

 

It's funny how Bogey wanting to stay at SS ends up signing with a team with 18 SSs on their roster.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I do believe they were not lying when they said they plan on adding 8-9 players. They've added 6:

 

Yoshida

Turner

Jansen

Martin

Joely

Mills

(7, if you count Niko Goodrum.)

 

That leaves 2-3 more additions, and we do have $38M to spend and still reset.

 

SP

SS (or RP and Houck to SP)

CF/RF

 

I'm not expecting anything earth-shattering, but to me, we only need 2-3 moderate additions to look significantly better than 2022 (which isn't that hard to do.)

 

SS: Andrus, M Rojas, Mateo

CF: M Taylor or the like

SP: Kluber, Nate or someone like Luzardo or Lopez (maybe taking on AGarcia's salary dump to minimize the return needs.)

 

 

All good suggestions. I don't why Iglesias isn't also an option; he really fit in down the stretch in '21, and was almost like a player-coach for Cora -- especially, when ineligible for anything but cheerleading in the postseason.

[moonslav59]

All good suggestions. I don't why Iglesias isn't also an option; he really fit in down the stretch in '21, and was almost like a player-coach for Cora -- especially, when ineligible for anything but cheerleading in the postseason.

 

I think his D has slipped at SS, but anything to keep Story at 2B is probably worth a try.

[Old Red]

All good suggestions. I don't why Iglesias isn't also an option; he really fit in down the stretch in '21, and was almost like a player-coach for Cora -- especially, when ineligible for anything but cheerleading in the postseason.

 

Story was signed to be a SS, so put him out there, and let him earn his money. He can’t play short RF at second anymore anyways. If they don’t want Arroyo at 2B then Iggy would be a fit there.

[notin]

It's funny how Bogey wanting to stay at SS ends up signing with a team with 18 SSs on their roster.

 

The MLB Network talking heads thought he would move to third next season when Machado opts out.

 

When I heard that, I couldn’t help but wonder if Bogaerts was on board with that plan…

[notin]

I do believe they were not lying when they said they plan on adding 8-9 players. They've added 6:

 

Yoshida

Turner

Jansen

Martin

Joely

Mills

(7, if you count Niko Goodrum.)

 

That leaves 2-3 more additions, and we do have $38M to spend and still reset.

 

SP

SS (or RP and Houck to SP)

CF/RF

 

I'm not expecting anything earth-shattering, but to me, we only need 2-3 moderate additions to look significantly better than 2022 (which isn't that hard to do.)

 

SS: Andrus, M Rojas, Mateo

CF: M Taylor or the like

SP: Kluber, Nate or someone like Luzardo or Lopez (maybe taking on AGarcia's salary dump to minimize the return needs.)

 

 

Just sign Andrus, Fulmer and a SP…

[cp176]

Don't blame the fans for doubting the plan.

 

It sucks to come in last place, and then lose your best players and not even replace them before the next season. Why would anyone look forward to that?

 

Part of the outrage about Bogaerts is that fans invested in watching every game -- and reading and writing about the Sox year-round -- now rightfully fear we'll also lose Rafael Devers.

 

The only goal isn't to just win rings, because that's unreasonable (and elitist). Fans want to be entertained, and cheer for their favorites -- who are hopefully forming the core of an improving ballclub. Most don't give a damn about a GM or CBO who's clever enough to recruit low-cost players who are merely functional.

 

This pretty more sums up how I look at things. Personally i could care less about speculating about what may be their plan moving forward. I would like them to be up front and honest with the loyal fans who have filled the seats for years.

[moonslav59]

This pretty more sums up how I look at things. Personally i could care less about speculating about what may be their plan moving forward. I would like them to be up front and honest with the loyal fans who have filled the seats for years.

 

I don't disagree, but I'm not sure they've been lying, either, at least any more than normal GM lies.

 

Everything they said about the Bogey situation might not have been lies. Being wrong does not mean it's a lie.

 

Of course, the easier explanation is they've lied and lied, again and again.

Edited December 27, 2022 by moonslav59

[Tedballgame]

Story was signed to be a SS, so put him out there, and let him earn his money. He can’t play short RF at second anymore anyways. If they don’t want Arroyo at 2B then Iggy would be a fit there.

 

If they sign Iggy, he plays SS and Story stays at second where is is very good. I would be ok with that for infield defense.

[StephenCurry30]

Chaim bloom has to be gay with the way he takes it from Henry

[mvp 78]

I do believe they were not lying when they said they plan on adding 8-9 players. They've added 6:

 

Yoshida

Turner

Jansen

Martin

Joely

Mills

(7, if you count Niko Goodrum.)

 

That leaves 2-3 more additions, and we do have $38M to spend and still reset.

 

SP

SS (or RP and Houck to SP)

CF/RF

 

I don't think you can really count MiLB contract guys as "additions." The FA market is very barren. At this point, Kluber's price tag can only go up.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think you can really count MiLB contract guys as "additions." The FA market is very barren. At this point, Kluber's price tag can only go up.

 

Not sure about Kluber's price tag. Eovaldi's deal is less than some of us thought, I believe. Most of the big spending is probably played out by now.

[mvp 78]

All good suggestions. I don't why Iglesias isn't also an option; he really fit in down the stretch in '21, and was almost like a player-coach for Cora -- especially, when ineligible for anything but cheerleading in the postseason.

 

2022:

-4 DRS

3.1 UZR/150

1 fWAR

 

If they are signing him, it's to rotate with Arroyo and Story, but Story would be the fulltime SS IMO. Arroyo's 2022 fWAR would be higher if he didn't have to play SS or RF.

 

Iggy 2022: 1.2 bWAR, 118 G, .498 162 WL%

Arroyo 2022: 0.8 bWAR, 87 G, .499 162 WL%

 

Per bref, Arroyo and Story offer about the same value.

 

If they sign someone to backup Arroyo (be primary starter in case of expected Arroyo injury), they would probably be LHB.

[mvp 78]

Not sure about Kluber's price tag. Eovaldi's deal is less than some of us thought, I believe. Most of the big spending is probably played out by now.

 

Because of the QO attachment IMO.

[mvp 78]

Story was signed to be a SS, so put him out there, and let him earn his money. He can’t play short RF at second anymore anyways. If they don’t want Arroyo at 2B then Iggy would be a fit there.

 

I think he's just a perfect fit at 2b. I wouldn't move him at all. His defense played up and he may get less wear and tear over there.

[Old Red]

I think he's just a perfect fit at 2b. I wouldn't move him at all. His defense played up and he may get less wear and tear over there.

 

I don’t care about his wear, and tear. He was signed to play SS, and if he can’t handle it physically he shouldn’t have been signed in the first place. Like I said he won’t be playing in short RF this year, so let him cover the ground at SS. Arroyo at 2B sounds like a chance Bloom is willing to take.Story is the perfect fit at SS.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Old Red

[cp176]

I don't disagree, but I'm not sure they've been lying, either, at least any more than normal GM lies.

 

Everything they said about the Bogey situation might not have been lies. Being wrong does not mean it's a lie.

 

Of course, the easier explanation is they've lied and lied, again and again.

 

I don't disagree with you here but what it also means is that everything you have suggested about their "plan" is also pure speculation regardless of the way that you see things. Now I'm not saying that your speculations about the plan going forward are wrong. What I am saying is that if your speculations are accurate then they truly have been giving us a line of crap about resigning either bogaerts or most others for that matter. i realize that this is also speculation. From a media perspective, they would show a lot more intelligence I think if they just shut their mouths and moved forward.

[mvp 78]

I don’t care about his wear, and tear. He was signed to play SS, and if he can’t handle it physically he shouldn’t have been signed in the first place. Like I said he won’t be playing in short RF this year, so let him cover the ground at SS. Arroyo at 2B sounds like a chance Bloom is willing to take.Story is the perfect fit at SS.

 

Then you are an idiot. Sorry. It's like a guy who buys a really nice car and never changes the oil or rotates the tires. If you know there is a potential issue with his throwing arm, it makes no sense to move him over to SS just because "we signed him to play there." That's what contingency plans are for.

[Old Red]

Then you are an idiot. Sorry. It's like a guy who buys a really nice car and never changes the oil or rotates the tires. If you know there is a potential issue with his throwing arm, it makes no sense to move him over to SS just because "we signed him to play there." That's what contingency plans are for.

 

So you are saying if Story starts at SS this year then Bloom, and Cora are idiots, because that’s what I think is going to happen? Like I said Story wasn’t signed for that contract to be a 2B.

[mvp 78]

I don't disagree with you here but what it also means is that everything you have suggested about their "plan" is also pure speculation regardless of the way that you see things. Now I'm not saying that your speculations about the plan going forward are wrong. What I am saying is that if your speculations are accurate then they truly have been giving us a line of crap about resigning either bogaerts or most others for that matter. i realize that this is also speculation. From a media perspective, they would show a lot more intelligence I think if they just shut their mouths and moved forward.

 

Yes, that is my biggest problem with all of it. I'm fully on board with the idea that their "damage control" is just making things worse and alienating fans even more than if they just said "we have a long term plan and Bogaerts was not a part of it at the price he wanted."

[mvp 78]

So you are saying if Story starts at SS this year then Bloom, and Cora are idiots, because that’s what I think is going to happen? Like I said Story wasn’t signed for that contract to be a 2B.

 

I think it's a bad idea. If I was in charge, I would have found a temporary solution at SS and left Story at 2b. I've said this over and over and over since the end of the year.

[mvp 78]

Story was signed to provide value for the money he's being paid. His defense is BETTER at 2b IMO and provides more value to the team there. It would be a bad baseball decision to move him back to SS.

[Old Red]

Story was signed to provide value for the money he's being paid. His defense is BETTER at 2b IMO and provides more value to the team there. It would be a bad baseball decision to move him back to SS.

 

We obviously disagree, but I’m sticking to Story being the Starting SS this year. I’m not saying that’s what should be done, but that it will be done. Arroyo is a cheap option at 2B injury prone, or not.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Old Red

[S5Dewey]

So you are saying if Story starts at SS this year then Bloom, and Cora are idiots, because that’s what I think is going to happen? Like I said Story wasn’t signed for that contract to be a 2B.

 

Although you and I are (surprisingly) of the same general thoughts on what's happening to our beloved Red Sox I think you're off base on this one.

Whether or not Story was signed to play SS as a backup plan for Bogaert's leaving is now neither here nor there. The Sox shouldn't be hamstrung by a decision made last year regarding positions of a player. If the FO thinks there's a better option they should explore it. Remember, Mookie was signed as an infielder.

 

Besides, whether Story plays SS or 2B isn't going to the deciding factor in whether the Sox win their division. That ship has already sailed. The biggest question right now is whether they can finish out of the cellar.

[mvp 78]

We obviously disagree, but I’m sticking to Story being the Starting SS this year.

 

That's your opinion which is fine.

 

I just disagree with the idea that "the Sox signed Story to be SS so he has to play SS." I think the Sox signed Story to play baseball for the Red Sox. If he needs to play elsewhere, you figure it out.

[mvp 78]

Although you and I are (surprisingly) of the same general thoughts on what's happening to our beloved Red Sox I think you're off base on this one.

Whether or not Story was signed to play SS as a backup plan for Bogaert's leaving is now neither here nor there. The Sox shouldn't be hamstrung by a decision made last year regarding positions of a player. If the FO thinks there's a better option they should explore it. Remember, Mookie was signed as an infielder.

 

Besides, whether Story plays SS or 2B isn't going to the deciding factor in whether the Sox win their division. That ship has already sailed. The biggest question right now is whether they can finish out of the cellar.

 

To me, I don't care if it's 4th or 5th place. Both seasons suck.

[Jasonbay44]

People switch positions all the time and Story looked legitimately good playing 2nd. I wasn’t big on the Story signing and still don’t really get it, but if he is a good 2B and it keeps him stay healthy, why move him?

 

Based on every comment the front office has made, it sounds like Story was signed to be a 2B, granted, I would take anything they say with a grain of salt.

[Old Red]

Although you and I are (surprisingly) of the same general thoughts on what's happening to our beloved Red Sox I think you're off base on this one.

Whether or not Story was signed to play SS as a backup plan for Bogaert's leaving is now neither here nor there. The Sox shouldn't be hamstrung by a decision made last year regarding positions of a player. If the FO thinks there's a better option they should explore it. Remember, Mookie was signed as an infielder.

 

Besides, whether Story plays SS or 2B isn't going to the deciding factor in whether the Sox win their division. That ship has already sailed. The biggest question right now is whether they can finish out of the cellar.

 

If it would have been me we wouldn’t being having this conversation now, because Bogey would be the SS. Yes finishing out of the cellar, and just getting back to 500 is a big question.

[notin]

So you are saying if Story starts at SS this year then Bloom, and Cora are idiots, because that’s what I think is going to happen? Like I said Story wasn’t signed for that contract to be a 2B.

 

How do you know why they signed him?

 

Not to mention, it’s ok to change plans as things change our S you learn new things. For example, learning Story is a GG-caliber 2b could and should be a factor…