Xander Bogaerts has signed with San Diego Padres

[moonslav59]

When someone says the Red Sox just didn’t want Bogey at any price when I’ve constantly said Bloom misread the room I would call that saying otherwise.

 

Nobody ever came close to saying the Sox did not want Bogey "at any price." Why do you constantly invent positions nobody holds? You don't need to to make your points.

 

It's clear the Sox never wanted Bogey at any price BorA$$ demanded, at any point, or else he'd be here. Those are two completely different positions.

 

Also, it's completely possible you are right about Bloom "misreading the room," but also that they really wanted Bogey and would have paid a fair price for him, but their offer never matched the one BorA$$ demanded. If that demand was never lower than $250M/10, I'm not upset we didn't accept it.

 

I would then agree with your position that we should have traded him had we known we'd never meet the demand. Maybe, Bloom never expected anyone would offer $250M/10, and he misread the room on that point, but it's understandable to not expect a $280M/11 offer would win the day 2 years ago, one year ago or even 2 months ago, but it's still a mistake by Bloom or Bloom & Co.

 

It just might not be the type of mistake it is made out to be, if we agree he was never worth $250M/10 and that was what it would take. The argument, then, would be solely about why didn't we trade him? (Remember, he also had a no trade clause.)

[moonslav59]

The weird thing is, the theory that they never wanted him back at anything like "market value" makes the most sense, and makes them more like competent liars, rather than incompetent straight shooters...

 

Or, they misjudged what "fair market value" was all along the way. I guess that could be called "incompetent," but only if it turns out they were wrong about his value.

 

Were they wrong not to offer what Pedro got? Were they wrong not to offer others we lost and who went on not to earn their contract value?

 

I know those had different circumstances, but until we know what the lowest price BorA$$ demanded along the way, we can't know for sure if it was all a lie or incompetence. It might have been the right move all along, and their biggest mistake was not realizing it and trying to get Bogey to agree to a trade.

[moonslav59]

It essentially sounded like they wanted him back… but only below market value on a cheap team friendly, and at that point, how much did they really want him?

 

What if fair market value was $200M/9 a year and longer ago and $200M/8 a few months ago? What if the Sox offered that or were prepared to offer that, but BorA$$ told them, "Don't bother countering with anything less than $250/9 or $225/8. Assuming this was the case, and we have no idea it was or wasn't, what was the Sox mistake? Not accepting $225M/8 or not countering with $200M/8 just to call BorA$SS's bluff and se what happened?

 

There is so much to speculate about, I find it hard to pass judgment one way or the other. It does suck Bogey is gone, and it would suck more to learn he could have been here had we made a reasonable offer 1 or 2 years ago or 2 months ago, but even then, what is reasonable?

 

I felt the Story $140M/6 deal was a very reasonable offer, but many here did not. I kinda feel whatever the demand BorA$$ made would hvae similar disagreements on this board, too. If we ever find out the truth, we may see it happen, here.

 

[Bellhorn04]

I know those had different circumstances, but until we know what the lowest price BorA$$ demanded along the way, we can't know for sure if it was all a lie or incompetence. It might have been the right move all along, and their biggest mistake was not realizing it and trying to get Bogey to agree to a trade.

 

Well, we keep talking about Boras, but the general feeling expressed by media has been that Xander was open to a Story-type deal or a little more AT THAT TIME.

 

And that theory seems credible based on the first extension Xander agreed to.

 

Once Xander reached free agency and we saw what guys were getting, the concept of any reasonable market value was gone.

 

The bottom line is, IF they really wanted to keep him, they made a MASSIVE error letting him get to free agency.

 

That's why I say it makes more sense they didn't want him back.

[mvp 78]

Exactly - be up front. That would be all that I need.

 

Or at least NEVER say that re-signing Xander is a priority. Never float stuff to McAdam that he would be re-signed.

[Jasonbay44]

Well, we keep talking about Boras, but the general feeling expressed by media has been that Xander was open to a Story-type deal or a little more AT THAT TIME.

 

And that theory seems credible based on the first extension Xander agreed to.

 

Once Xander reached free agency and we saw what guys were getting, the concept of any reasonable market value was gone.

 

The bottom line is, IF they really wanted to keep him, they made a MASSIVE error letting him get to free agency.

 

That's why I say it makes more sense they didn't want him back.

 

I agree with all of this. Typically, if you want someone back, you don’t let a bidding war ensue, especially with what teams like Rangers did the previous off season

[mvp 78]

...or any specific offer BorA$$ asked for, or did I miss that?

 

If BorA$$ never lowered from $250M/10, did Bloom make a mistake by not accepting that?

 

You'd have to project Xander being a 4.5 fWAR guy for the next 7 years. He can do that for the next 3-4, after that it's a big question mark. I think the Padres final offer was stupid money.

[Old Red]

Nobody ever came close to saying the Sox did not want Bogey "at any price." Why do you constantly invent positions nobody holds? You don't need to to make your points.

 

It's clear the Sox never wanted Bogey at any price BorA$$ demanded, at any point, or else he'd be here. Those are two completely different positions.

 

Also, it's completely possible you are right about Bloom "misreading the room," but also that they really wanted Bogey and would have paid a fair price for him, but their offer never matched the one BorA$$ demanded. If that demand was never lower than $250M/10, I'm not upset we didn't accept it.

 

I would then agree with your position that we should have traded him had we known we'd never meet the demand. Maybe, Bloom never expected anyone would offer $250M/10, and he misread the room on that point, but it's understandable to not expect a $280M/11 offer would win the day 2 years ago, one year ago or even 2 months ago, but it's still a mistake by Bloom or Bloom & Co.

 

It just might not be the type of mistake it is made out to be, if we agree he was never worth $250M/10 and that was what it would take. The argument, then, would be solely about why didn't we trade him? (Remember, he also had a no trade clause.)

What was BorA$$ asking price last offseason?Once Bogey got to FA nothing else mattered, because he was gone anyways.

[mvp 78]

Well, we keep talking about Boras, but the general feeling expressed by media has been that Xander was open to a Story-type deal or a little more AT THAT TIME.

 

And that theory seems credible based on the first extension Xander agreed to.

 

Once Xander reached free agency and we saw what guys were getting, the concept of any reasonable market value was gone.

 

The bottom line is, IF they really wanted to keep him, they made a MASSIVE error letting him get to free agency.

 

That's why I say it makes more sense they didn't want him back.

 

IF that initial story about the extension from last year is true, they were WRONG for not signing him back then to that money. That would have been well below market value and they would have been easily able to deal him in 2 years if Mayer busts the door open and he refused to switch positions.

[mvp 78]

I agree with all of this. Typically, if you want someone back, you don’t let a bidding war ensue, especially with what teams like Rangers did the previous off season

 

It's why they need to sign Raffy now or let him go.

[Bellhorn04]

You'd have to project Xander being a 4.5 fWAR guy for the next 7 years. He can do that for the next 3-4, after that it's a big question mark. I think the Padres final offer was stupid money.

 

It's one of the craziest free agent deals ever, no question.

[Jasonbay44]

It's why they need to sign Raffy now or let him go.

 

Also fully agree. The decision needs to be made ASAP. Either trade him, or give him a big extension. Letting another star walk would be insanely stupid.

[Old Red]

IF that initial story about the extension from last year is true, they were WRONG for not signing him back then to that money. That would have been well below market value and they would have been easily able to deal him in 2 years if Mayer busts the door open and he refused to switch positions.

 

How can you easily trade someone when they have a no trade?

[mvp 78]

How can you easily trade someone when they have a no trade?

 

"You can either play LF for us, or go play SS in ___________."

 

That's how it gets done.

[Old Red]

"You can either play LF for us, or go play SS in ___________."

 

That's how it gets done.

Sounds good, but maybe Mayer won’t be a SS if, and when he’s ready.

[StephenCurry30]

It's why they need to sign Raffy now or let him go.

 

let Raffy go for what? Franchy Cordero, Jeter downs and a box of cornflakes? Bloom is too stupid to make trades and prefers s***** people to good ones.

[mvp 78]

Sounds good, but maybe Mayer won’t be a SS if, and when he’s ready.

 

Mayer is already a better SS than Xander. Where else would you play him?

[Old Red]

Mayer is already a better SS than Xander. Where else would you play him?

 

Mayer like Casas, and Bello are still nothing more than promise at this point, and the way they get talked about on here they are already Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy. In other words future HOF. I hope they turn out to be, but at this point not yet. I’ll cross the Mayer bridge when it’s time.

[Old Red]

let Raffy go for what? Franchy Cordero, Jeter downs and a box of cornflakes? Bloom is too stupid to make trades and prefers s***** people to good ones.

 

I think some over look that Bloom’s trades haven’t been all that great. Let Raffy finish out his last year in Boston, so everyone can see what they’ll be missing.

[S5Dewey]

Mayer like Casas, and Bello are still nothing more than promise at this point, and the way they get talked about on here they are already Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy. In other words future HOF. I hope they turn out to be, but at this point not yet. I’ll cross the Mayer bridge when it’s time.

 

Exactly. The highly rated Trey Ball was the Sox 1st round choice and the 7th pick overall in his draft class. Where is Trey Ball now?

 

I'm not saying that Mayer is going to be another Trey Ball but we have to realize that the road to The Bigs is littered with can't miss players who did miss. It's a big mistake to put your eggs in the basket of a player who's in A regardless of how well he's playing in A.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think some over look that Bloom’s trades haven’t been all that great. Let Raffy finish out his last year in Boston, so everyone can see what they’ll be missing.

 

It is a sad season indeed when the best trade your bossman makes in the summer is to dump a guy who sucked that he himself recruited and wasted money on in the spring (cough, Diekman).

[moonslav59]

What was BorA$$ asking price last offseason?

 

That's the big unknown, and until and if we ever learn what it was, it's hard to know if we made a mistake by not accepting it.

 

I'm with you on trading him, if we knew we could not or never would match up with the demand.

[mvp 78]

It is a sad season indeed when the best trade your bossman makes in the summer is to dump a guy who sucked that he himself recruited and wasted money on in the spring (cough, Diekman).

 

Maybe Valdez or Abreu turn into something? IDK. For now, the Diekman deal was a good trade. He should do more of those.

[mvp 78]

That's the big unknown, and until and if we ever learn what it was, it's hard to know if we made a mistake by not accepting it.

 

I'm with you on trading him, if we knew we could not or never would match up with the demand.

 

I thought they stated they would have signed the Story deal?

[moonslav59]

It is a sad season indeed when the best trade your bossman makes in the summer is to dump a guy who sucked that he himself recruited and wasted money on in the spring (cough, Diekman).

 

It wasn't going to be a summer of trades due to the slight hopes we had for a miracle, apparently.

[moonslav59]

Maybe Valdez or Abreu turn into something? IDK. For now, the Diekman deal was a good trade. He should do more of those.

 

I'd rather we get one better prospect than 2 good ones- same with Ferguson and Rosier for Groome.

 

Same with 4 prospects plus Cordero for Beni, 2 prospects plus JBJ for Renfroe.

 

Farm depth is nice, but having quality over quantity has a lot going for it, too.

[moonslav59]

I thought they stated they would have signed the Story deal?

 

Borass said that?

[mvp 78]

I'd rather we get one better prospect than 2 good ones- same with Ferguson and Rosier for Groome.

 

Same with 4 prospects plus Cordero for Beni, 2 prospects plus JBJ for Renfroe.

 

Farm depth is nice, but having quality over quantity has a lot going for it, too.

 

Groome was moved because he was a wasted 40 man spot. You weren't getting a top prospect for him.

 

Could they have gotten a better prospect than Abreu or Valdez? Maybe?

[mvp 78]

Borass said that?

 

There is so much ******** floating around that it's hard to keep straight. What I've heard most is that Xander would have taken the Story deal or something slightly more last offseason if offered. Sox only offered the one year extension bit instead.

[Old Red]

Exactly. The highly rated Trey Ball was the Sox 1st round choice and the 7th pick overall in his draft class. Where is Trey Ball now?

 

I'm not saying that Mayer is going to be another Trey Ball but we have to realize that the road to The Bigs is littered with can't miss players who did miss. It's a big mistake to put your eggs in the basket of a player who's in A regardless of how well he's playing in A.

 

3 teams passed on Mayer, and sooner, or later we’ll find out it that was the right move, or not.