Xander Bogaerts has signed with San Diego Padres

[notin]

If it would have been me we wouldn’t being having this conversation now, because Bogey would be the SS. Yes finishing out of the cellar, and just getting back to 500 is a big question.

 

What if the big issue with Bogaerts’ contract negotiations was his refusal to eventually move off SS?

 

You still give him what he wants because:

 

1. You don’t care about defense?

2. You are willing to let him play out his years at a position he will not be able to handle in the (potentially very) near future?

3. You plan to move him to a new position behind his back and have an unhappy albeit well-paid player?

[moonslav59]

I don't disagree with you here but what it also means is that everything you have suggested about their "plan" is also pure speculation regardless of the way that you see things. Now I'm not saying that your speculations about the plan going forward are wrong. What I am saying is that if your speculations are accurate then they truly have been giving us a line of crap about resigning either bogaerts or most others for that matter. i realize that this is also speculation. From a media perspective, they would show a lot more intelligence I think if they just shut their mouths and moved forward.

 

There is solid evidence that the number one priority is, and has been since the deadline in 2018, the farm.

 

1. Most trades we made that added a vet also included a prospect or 2 or 4 as in the Beni for Cordero trade.

2. We have not traded any top prospects in 3.5 years, unless you count Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber as such.

3. Signing almost every FA to one year deals hints at "bridging" to someone you hope will be ready in the current system, as in a graduating prospect.

 

They may very well have wanted Bogey and thought they could get him all along the way, until the Padres offer blew them, and many baseball pundits away. Call it a lie. Call it a mistake. Call it "the GM being over his head" or "misreading the room," but there can be many explanations and speculations, but the fact is, Bogey is gone.

 

No doubt, we'd be better with Bogey, but honestly, would we be projected to finish much higher in 2023 than 2022 had we spent the $50M on...

 

25.5 Bogey

17.0 Nate

10.0 Vaz

 

(No JD, Wacha, Hill, Straham or Jansen, Martin, Yoshida or Turner, either)

[moonslav59]

I don’t care about his wear, and tear. He was signed to play SS, and if he can’t handle it physically he shouldn’t have been signed in the first place. Like I said he won’t be playing in short RF this year, so let him cover the ground at SS. Arroyo at 2B sounds like a chance Bloom is willing to take.Story is the perfect fit at SS.

 

Without the SS being on the 1B side of the diamond vs LHBs, it's actually more important to have a wide-ranged 2Bman than before.

[Old Red]

What if the big issue with Bogaerts’ contract negotiations was his refusal to eventually move off SS?

 

You still give him what he wants because:

 

1. You don’t care about defense?

2. You are willing to let him play out his years at a position he will not be able to handle in the (potentially very) near future?

3. You plan to move him to a new position behind his back and have an unhappy albeit well-paid player?

Was Bogey ever asked to move off SS by anyone from the Red Sox?

[moonslav59]

What if the big issue with Bogaerts’ contract negotiations was his refusal to eventually move off SS?

 

You still give him what he wants because:

 

1. You don’t care about defense?

2. You are willing to let him play out his years at a position he will not be able to handle in the (potentially very) near future?

3. You plan to move him to a new position behind his back and have an unhappy albeit well-paid player?

 

Imagine this scenario: Mayer is ready for the bigs in 2024, but Bogey becomes upset they want him to move to 3B (no Devers) or LF. He demands a trade and or pouts and complains to the media and asks for a trade.

 

Not likely?

Possible?

Probable?

 

I got the feeling Bogey might have been okay with a position change in 3-5 years, but not after 1.

[Old Red]

Without the SS being on the 1B side of the diamond vs LHBs, it's actually more important to have a wide-ranged 2Bman than before.

 

No different from the way the game was played for over 100 years until analytics took over, and increased the shift by 50,000 in a ten year period.

[notin]

No different from the way the game was played for over 100 years until analytics took over, and increased the shift by 50,000 in a ten year period.

 

The shift actually started in the 1920s, although it was usually reserved for special hitters.

 

The Williams Shift was actually used long before Ted Williams’ debut, and was named for a different Williams - Frederick “Cy” Williams.

 

The nicknaming of star players “Cy” is just another tradition that died off too soon…

[Old Red]

The shift actually started in the 1920s, although it was usually reserved for special hitters.

 

The Williams Shift was actually used long before Ted Williams’ debut, and was named for a different Williams - Frederick “Cy” Williams.

 

The nicknaming of star players “Cy” is just another tradition that died off too soon…

 

And like I said the shift went up by 50,000 in a ten year period, because of analytics.

[mvp 78]

Imagine this scenario: Mayer is ready for the bigs in 2024, but Bogey becomes upset they want him to move to 3B (no Devers) or LF. He demands a trade and or pouts and complains to the media and asks for a trade.

 

Not likely?

Possible?

Probable?

 

I got the feeling Bogey might have been okay with a position change in 3-5 years, but not after 1.

 

The "SS only" Xander was posturing during a SS FA feeding frenzy. He'll move off position when asked.

[S5Dewey]

There are lots of questions/scenarios from posters here about what might have been the FO reasoning behind not signing Bogearts. I'd refer back to what I posted a few days ago about The Circular Law of Logical Arguments, "Anything is possible when someone doesn't know what they're talking about".

 

IMO these circular arguments serve one purpose: To obfuscate the fact that the entire Bogaerts signings right from the start has been one great bug ClusterF-K. Regardless off why it happened, it did. Let's just admit it and stop making possible excuses for it.

[notin]

The "SS only" Xander was posturing during a SS FA feeding frenzy. He'll move off position when asked.

 

Reluctantly or happily?

[Old Red]

The "SS only" Xander was posturing during a SS FA feeding frenzy. He'll move off position when asked.

 

I agree, but I get the impression that some believe that Bogey was asked already by the Red Sox to move off SS, and I don’t believe it was the case. Some on here even called him a bad teammate. He told the press he was a SS, and didn’t want to move, but he was going for a new contract that a SS would get more money.

[Old Red]

There are lots of questions/scenarios from posters here about what might have been the FO reasoning behind not signing Bogearts. I'd refer back to what I posted a few days ago about The Circular Law of Logical Arguments, "Anything is possible when someone doesn't know what they're talking about".

 

IMO these circular arguments serve one purpose: To obfuscate the fact that the entire Bogaerts signings right from the start has been one great bug ClusterF-K. Regardless off why it happened, it did. Let's just admit it and stop making possible excuses for it.

 

I believe Bloom Botched it, and we all watched it.

[Old Red]

Reluctantly or happily?

 

Once again was Bogey ever asked to move off SS by the Red Sox?

[notin]

Was Bogey ever asked to move off SS by anyone from the Red Sox?

 

It’s possible and I am putting that possibility out there.

 

We know Devers’ talks centered around his future as a 1b/DH. Think they ignored Bogaerts ability to play SS long term while discussing a long term contract?

 

Frankly it would explain why only 4 years were offered…

[mvp 78]

There are lots of questions/scenarios from posters here about what might have been the FO reasoning behind not signing Bogearts. I'd refer back to what I posted a few days ago about The Circular Law of Logical Arguments, "Anything is possible when someone doesn't know what they're talking about".

 

IMO these circular arguments serve one purpose: To obfuscate the fact that the entire Bogaerts signings right from the start has been one great bug ClusterF-K. Regardless off why it happened, it did. Let's just admit it and stop making possible excuses for it.

 

Who is making excuses for them not signing Xander? They should have signed him. It was the right thing to do. We know they messed up last offseason. We've talked about that endlessly. Nobody on here has made an excuse for it.

[mvp 78]

Reluctantly or happily?

 

If it's reluctant, you won't here about it in the media.

[mvp 78]

I agree, but I get the impression that some believe that Bogey was asked already by the Red Sox to move off SS, and I don’t believe it was the case. Some on here even called him a bad teammate. He told the press he was a SS, and didn’t want to move, but he was going for a new contract that a SS would get more money.

 

I don't remember this at all. I'm not sure they discussed moving Xander off SS at any point since 2014.

[mvp 78]

I believe Bloom Botched it, and we all watched it.

 

Has anyone said otherwise?

[Old Red]

I don't remember this at all. I'm not sure they discussed moving Xander off SS at any point since 2014.

 

Kimmi was one who said he was being a bad teammate, and others agreed.

[Old Red]

Has anyone said otherwise?

 

When someone says the Red Sox just didn’t want Bogey at any price when I’ve constantly said Bloom misread the room I would call that saying otherwise.

[mvp 78]

Kimmi was one who said he was being a bad teammate, and others agreed.

 

You're going to have to find that post. I don't remember that at all and she's not on here to defend herself.

[mvp 78]

When someone says the Red Sox just didn’t want Bogey at any price when I’ve constantly said Bloom misread the room I would call that saying otherwise.

 

The Red Sox offered Xander a price so that statement is just false?

[Old Red]

The Red Sox offered Xander a price so that statement is just false?

 

Outside of the 1 year ext what did they offer him before, and after the barn door was open, and Bogey got to FA when once again it was lowball, and just done for show.

[mvp 78]

Outside of the 1 year ext what did they offer him before, and after the barn door was open, and Bogey got to FA when once again it was lowball, and just done for show.

 

I'm not sure it actually has been reported what the Sox has offered this offseason.

[cp176]

Yes, that is my biggest problem with all of it. I'm fully on board with the idea that their "damage control" is just making things worse and alienating fans even more than if they just said "we have a long term plan and Bogaerts was not a part of it at the price he wanted."

 

Exactly - be up front. That would be all that I need.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure it actually has been reported what the Sox has offered this offseason.

 

...or any specific offer BorA$$ asked for, or did I miss that?

 

If BorA$$ never lowered from $250M/10, did Bloom make a mistake by not accepting that?

[moonslav59]

The "SS only" Xander was posturing during a SS FA feeding frenzy. He'll move off position when asked.

 

Agreed, but I don't think it helped his bargaining position by saying he wanted to stay at SS, and I don't think he'd be happy to be forced off SS after just one season. Of course, $280M makes that a lot easier to swallow.

[Bellhorn04]

The weird thing is, the theory that they never wanted him back at anything like "market value" makes the most sense, and makes them more like competent liars, rather than incompetent straight shooters...

[Jasonbay44]

It essentially sounded like they wanted him back… but only below market value on a cheap team friendly, and at that point, how much did they really want him?