Clay Buchholz - Is he worth the 2016 option?

[Spudboy]

He's also spent lots of real time on the DL and has had real struggles in the past. To me, he's just not a sure enough bet to take up a spot in my rotation.

 

This is how I feel. Regardless of $, he is not worth it.

[a700hitter]

This is how I feel. Regardless of $, he is not worth it.

He's not worth giving a spot in the rotation, because that spot becomes a 3 month hole that will cost a premium to fill. To maximize Clay's value, I would have exercised his option and then traded him.

[mvp 78]

He's not worth giving a spot in the rotation, because that spot becomes a 3 month hole that will cost a premium to fill. To maximize Clay's value, I would have exercised his option and then traded him.

That hole is typically filled by a mishmash of AAAA guys. Would a full year of Buchholz be worth $26M? Nope.

 

And there is more than one person on here that call the decision a "no brainer." Sorry, I just can't agree with that. It's also language that belittles anyone who thinks otherwise. I don't see the point in throwing around Vlad Dracul's money without regard for who is actually playing.

[illinoisredsox]

That hole is typically filled by a mishmash of AAAA guys. Would a full year of Buchholz be worth $26M? Nope.

 

And there is more than one person on here that call the decision a "no brainer." Sorry, I just can't agree with that. It's also language that belittles anyone who thinks otherwise. I don't see the point in throwing around Vlad Dracul's money without regard for who is actually playing.

 

You've determined it's a no-brainer, just on the side of not being worth picking up the option.

[mvp 78]

You've determined it's a no-brainer, just on the side of not being worth picking up the option.

 

I'm willing to change my viewpoint if someone can provide better evidence than "it's a no brainer."

[FredLynn]

If Price continues to pitch as he has this season he's going to make Sabathia's contract look like a bargain.

 

Big "if". Sabathia's contract is known to be one of the many horrendous Yankee contracts; Price might turn into one. Meanwhile the last place Yankees had Teixeira sitting tonight with neck spasms; ARod is also out. And Tanaka, one of their only decent SP this year so far, gave up six runs in seven innings. Its going to be a very long season for the Yankees.

[devildavid]

Clay is hurting Farrell's ability to manage the team to victory, Good thing Farrell is so good and won today despite Clay.

[Bellhorn04]

2 Quality Starts out of 8 isn't getting it done.

[FredLynn]

2 Quality Starts out of 8 isn't getting it done.

 

And an ERA of over 6. I am sure DD has a close eye on him. In my book, his time is up. I would guess they are looking to unload him plus prospect for a better and more reliable SP. Might not happen for a while, but management has shown a willingness to do whatever is needed this year to make the postseason.

[Maxbialystock]

I continue to think the $13M was a reasonable investment whatever the outcome. He has had good stuff that has allowed him at times to be very good. His biggest liability in the past was health/endurance/innings pitched. Right now he seems to be healthy. Yesterday was a microcosm of the this season to date. He gave up 5 runs, including a grand slam, in the first two innings, then shut the Astros down for 4 innings.

 

I think one key for him is throwing strikes, especially early in the count and especially on the first pitch. I also think he relies too much on fastballs and cutters.

[a700hitter]

I continue to think the $13M was a reasonable investment whatever the outcome. He has had good stuff that has allowed him at times to be very good. His biggest liability in the past was health/endurance/innings pitched. Right now he seems to be healthy. Yesterday was a microcosm of the this season to date. He gave up 5 runs, including a grand slam, in the first two innings, then shut the Astros down for 4 innings.

 

I think one key for him is throwing strikes, especially early in the count and especially on the first pitch. I also think he relies too much on fastballs and cutters.

Let's not discount the high probability that he will be gone by the All Star Break.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I agree. I think that it would be difficult to find ANY team in baseball who wouldn't have picked up that option. He seems like the perfect change of scenery candidate. He's had tough innings this year, but has settled down after.

 

With all of the parity in baseball, there likely won't be much available starting pitching at the deadline. He has value and the Sox will have no shortage of trade partners if they do move him. Other teams are well aware that he has the capability to go on a run where he pitches like an ace. It should be interesting to watch this develop over the next few months.

[Kimmi]

Farrell said today that Clay will be making his next start.

 

Rodriguez likely needs one more start in AAA.

[FredLynn]

Farrell said today that Clay will be making his next start.

 

Rodriguez likely needs one more start in AAA.

 

I believe Rodriguez is starting on Wed; Kelly on Thu. From what I hear Rodriguez has not regained the velocity he had last year and is not performing well. Kelly is back at 96 and is closer to returning. Clay will make his next start, but I doubt management has a lot more patience for a SP whose ERA is over 6-if there is an alternative.

[southpaw777]

Im sure we can find a BOTR type pitcher for less than 13m, no?

Clay is in his early thirties now. The fact that some are still hopeful that his "stuff" is worth it is amazing. He is who he is. A pitcher with incredible "stuff" but also a pitcher who constantly gets in his own way. Hes a bit of a head case, inconsistent, and cant be relied on for a good solid full season.

At 13m I would hope DD looks for an upgrade, or even a lateral move for less annual salary would be acceptable at this point.im in the camp of trading him or not picking up the option. Right now i wouldnt teade him due to lack of pitching depth, unless another arm or two comes back this way...

[Slasher9]

Post #1 updated to reflect GS #8 for both pitchers.....

[greenwell]

I'm definitely a Clay supporter. He is easily worth the $13M. Yes, his stats have been horrendous this year, but he has shown that he can pitch. He just needs to avoid those bad innings.

He's also an injury risk, which is why he's only worth $13M. There's a chance the sox wouldn't have even made the playoffs in 2013 without the half a year that Buccholz gave them.

[a700hitter]

I'm definitely a Clay supporter. He is easily worth the $13M. Yes, his stats have been horrendous this year, but he has shown that he can pitch. He just needs to avoid those bad innings.

He's also an injury risk, which is why he's only worth $13M. There's a chance the sox wouldn't have even made the playoffs in 2013 without the half a year that Buccholz gave them.

How would a pitcher go about avoiding bad innings?

[mvp 78]

How would a pitcher go about avoiding bad innings?

 

In Clay's case? Retirement? Moving to the NL East?

[greenwell]

It's actually pretty common. Better pitchers are able to work out of jams without giving up 4 runs. In the past Buccholz has been able to do it at times. If I knew how I would be a pitching coach.

 

How would a pitcher go about avoiding bad innings?

[redsoxdirtdog]

I think one more bad start, & we see Clay c ome up with an "injury."

 

I think E-Rod & Kelly are close enough to coming back to have Clay take a break.

 

Great talent. All the gifts in the world. Can have just nasty "stuff."

 

Mentally weak when he puts himself in a jam. He's consistently putting himself into jams this year.

[cp176]

I'm definitely a Clay supporter. He is easily worth the $13M. Yes, his stats have been horrendous this year, but he has shown that he can pitch. He just needs to avoid those bad innings.

He's also an injury risk, which is why he's only worth $13M. There's a chance the sox wouldn't have even made the playoffs in 2013 without the half a year that Buccholz gave them.

 

his stats have been horrendous - he needs to avoid those bad innings-he is also an injury risk- but he is still worth 13 million dollars (only)- really???

[Kimmi]

He has not been worth it this year, to date.

 

He was easily worth it last year.

 

The point is, he was easily worth taking the risk on for $13 mil for one year.

[illinoisredsox]

I think one more bad start, & we see Clay c ome up with an "injury."

 

I think E-Rod & Kelly are close enough to coming back to have Clay take a break.

 

Great talent. All the gifts in the world. Can have just nasty "stuff."

 

Mentally weak when he puts himself in a jam. He's consistently putting himself into jams this year.

 

Everything I've read indicates that ERod is nowhere near ready. Remember, he's essentially in his 3rd week of spring training at this point.

 

Kelly is much closer, but he will reclaim his original slot that's been less than spectacularly filled by the Owens/O'Sullivan duo.

[cp176]

He has not been worth it this year, to date.

 

He was easily worth it last year.

 

The point is, he was easily worth taking the risk on for $13 mil for one year.

 

Hey - whatever - he is ours for sure. I just thought that it was an extremely unique way of trying to explain that in light of what he has done this year, he is still earning his money. His stats have been horrendous - he has to stay away from those bad innings - and he is an injury risk! if that is what his next resume says and he gets 13 million for it, good for him. Now, he may turn it around and he may not. I'm ok with him because I consider him to be a number 4 or 5 starter. He at this time is just not earning his money.

[cp176]

He has not been worth it this year, to date.

 

He was easily worth it last year.

 

The point is, he was easily worth taking the risk on for $13 mil for one year.

 

 

I understand your point . I was in no way commenting on whether signing him was right or wrong.

[Slasher9]

looks like he was not worth spending the $13MM on this season. based on the amount of boos after the 2nd and 3rd HR's he gave up last night i doubt very many number 11 jerseys were sold.

time to either:

bullpen

DFA

trade for peanuts

 

on the flipside....number 24 has been pitching very well his last 3 starts. here's hoping kneE-Rod comes back strong.

DD has to be looking to make SP deals....get ready to say goodbye to prospects. thanks Clay.

[southpaw777]

He has not been worth it this year, to date.

 

He was easily worth it last year.

 

The point is, he was easily worth taking the risk on for $13 mil for one year.

 

Agree...Completely understand the option this year. Next year? After this horrendous year so far, he hasnt earned it IMHO.

Ive been a supporter up until this year. I really do hope he can figure it out and be at least a solid, serviceable 3. I believe He can be at least that... im hoping he will anyway...either here or somewhere else.

Erod looks to be all set to take Clays spot next time around so we should see anther corresponding move. Clay is not built for the pen and hes out of options. My guess is they wont make big move until ERod looks ok in his start...either way, clay is out...

If Kelly and ERod look bad, DD will HAVE to trade some of our prospects for a starter. If they do well, maybe not just yet...

Edited May 27, 2016 by southpaw777

[Jack Flap]

time to either:

bullpen

DFA

trade for peanuts

 

Though he's deservedly the odd man out of the rotation at this point, I wouldn't toss him out the door just yet. Kelly was great the last time around, obviously, but he has yet to prove he can be any more reliable than Buch, and we'd still be just an injury away from having to give starts to Owens or O'Sullivan again. (Worth mentioning that Elias has looked good the last couple of starts, though.)

[mvp 78]

Owens isn't getting any more starts until he finds some semblance of control.