Clay Buchholz - Is he worth the 2016 option?

[mvp 78]

Price has been heavily criticized and scrutinized too. The problem is: A) Track record. Even in crappy starts, Price is going deep into games.

 

Besides, the peripheral numbers point to Price being unlucky, and Clay just plain sucking.

 

This! A+ post. Exactly agrees with how I feel!

[Kimmi]

First of all, I completely misread the OP (though it says "2016" right there in the title) and assumed we were talking about whether or not to pick up his 2017 option, hence my reply. I did support picking up the 2016 option and still believe it was the right call.

 

Other than that:

-While Price and Buchholz are currently sporting similarly ugly ERAs, delving into more advanced stats would suggest that Price has actually pitched much better than his ERA would indicate (similar to Buchholz last April), while Clay's peripherals are scarier than the ERA.

-People's perceptions of the two are rightly colored by the fact that Price has a lengthy track record of ace-like performance, while Clay has never managed this over a full season and has instead burned us time and again.

-I might have missed it, but I don't think anyone said anything remotely approaching "jesus christ clay sucks. DD is an idiot for picking up his option. clay is a bitch"..? Everyone realizes it's early and patience is called for.

 

You missed it. LOL There is not much love for Buchholz here and very little patience for him. Most people did not want his option picked up, despite it being a no brainer.

 

You make a very good point about people's perceptions of the two pitchers being colored by their histories, and understandably so. Clay can be maddening to watch at times.

 

That said, without the benefit of hindsight, I don't see how anyone can say that picking up Clay's option was a bad move.

[Kimmi]

Neither do I.

 

I don't believe I need to explain "heart of a lion" when describing Price.

 

I've watched his entire MLB career. Anyone who has done the same knows what I am speaking about. He is known for not only his immense talent, but for his competitive nature as well.

 

In stark contrast to "dear in the headlights" Buch.

 

Maybe I have imagined that they have a different temperament. I guess that would mean that most everyone else has as well.

 

I am a big Clay supporter, but I have to agree with the impression of Price and Buchholz having different temperaments on the mound. Price seems fearless and mentally tough, while Buchholz sometimes seems to lack confidence.

[Kimmi]

Price has been heavily criticized and scrutinized too. The problem is: A) Track record. Even in crappy starts, Price is going deep into games.

 

Besides, the peripheral numbers point to Price being unlucky, and Clay just plain sucking.

 

Price has not been heavily criticized and scrutinized. His performance has been questioned, but a far cry from the vitriol that Buchholz gets. I'm not saying that Price deserves to be heavily criticized. He doesn't. I'm just pointing out the difference in reaction to two pitchers who have both pitched very poorly.

[User Name]

Peripheral and advanced stats:

 

Price: 12.03 K/9 (!), 2.21 BB/9, .362 BABIP (!), 57.3 LOB% (!), 2.88 FIP

 

Buchholz: 6.18 K/9, 4.23 BB/9, .314 BABIP, 64.4 LOB%, 5.20 FIP.

 

Price has the profile of an ace who has run into some bad luck with balls in play and RISP. Clay has the profile of someone who sucks. It's not a bad thing to call a spade a spade.

 

You're stats driven. Do advanced stats not apply here?

[Spudboy]

Price has been heavily criticized and scrutinized too. The problem is: A) Track record. Even in crappy starts, Price is going deep into games.

 

Besides, the peripheral numbers point to Price being unlucky, and Clay just plain sucking.

 

I am Spudboy and I approve of this post.

[Spudboy]

I am a big Clay supporter, but I have to agree with the impression of Price and Buchholz having different temperaments on the mound. Price seems fearless and mentally tough, while Buchholz sometimes seems to lack confidence.

 

I always blame his poor performance on him being a lunkhead. But really, it could be a lack of confidence as well.

 

Regardless, his overall lack of consistency is not what this team needs and it is something that I no longer wish to see every 5 days.

[TedWilliams101]

So what does you rant have to do with me?

 

Sorry, it wasn't aimed at you, your quote was just a pick-off point.

[User Name]

Sorry, it wasn't aimed at you, your quote was just a pick-off point.

 

Question (and this is aimed at you): Do you ever make a post that's not specifically whining or ranting about something? I am honestly curious, do you literally come here to vent?

[Kimmi]

You're stats driven. Do advanced stats not apply here?

 

I am aware of the stats, and I have acknowledged that Clay's peripherals are not encouraging. I have also said that I'm confident that Price will pitch like the ace that he is.

 

Regardless, I think there is a double standard. IMO, even if Price's peripheral stats were as bad as Clay's, Clay would still get a lot more criticism.

[a700hitter]

I am aware of the stats, and I have acknowledged that Clay's peripherals are not encouraging. I have also said that I'm confident that Price will pitch like the ace that he is.

 

Regardless, I think there is a double standard. IMO, even if Price's peripheral stats were as bad as Clay's, Clay would still get a lot more criticism.

Assumption, projection and speculation.

[redsoxdirtdog]

1st inning w / Chi WS.... Clay gives up 2 more ER's.

 

ain't looking good!

[redsoxdirtdog]

Time to face the facts. I thought the gamble on picking up his option was good. NOT LOOKING THAT WAY NOW THOUGH.

 

Other than needing warm bodies for innings.... he's killing us!

 

The kid is a major head case! Absolutely ZERO doubt about it! At least half the time he is around, he flakes. Folds! I won't pretend to know what if anything is in his head, but it can't be good. All the talent in the world, but a weak mind & fragile body. There is no denying this.

[Dojji]

I am aware of the stats, and I have acknowledged that Clay's peripherals are not encouraging. I have also said that I'm confident that Price will pitch like the ace that he is.

 

Regardless, I think there is a double standard. IMO, even if Price's peripheral stats were as bad as Clay's, Clay would still get a lot more criticism.

 

I think Clay has earned that by being one of the most frustrating cockteases on the team over his near-decade of service time. Inconsistency is the only thing at which he is consistent.

 

Not a horrible start from Clay and against a first place team. Let's hope that it's a sign of better things to come.

[SoxHop]

This start by Clay is sure to mean he will get on a role and pitch lights out for about ten more starts before the injury...... or not..... but I hope so...

[Palodios]

There's nothing better than the shortlived three week stretch that starts with Buchholz being the best pitcher in baseball, and ends with surgery.

[SoxHop]

There's nothing better than the shortlived three week stretch that starts with Buchholz being the best pitcher in baseball, and ends with surgery.

 

ahahahaha...... couldn't have said it better than that....

[redsoxdirtdog]

Time to face the facts. I thought the gamble on picking up his option was good. NOT LOOKING THAT WAY NOW THOUGH.

 

Other than needing warm bodies for innings.... he's killing us!

 

The kid is a major head case! Absolutely ZERO doubt about it! At least half the time he is around, he flakes. Folds! I won't pretend to know what if anything is in his head, but it can't be good. All the talent in the world, but a weak mind & fragile body. There is no denying this.

 

 

Take it back redsoxdirtBAG!

 

Clay will be starting in the All-Star Game! Who is this guy anyway!

[SoxHop]

Take it back redsoxdirtBAG!

 

Clay will be starting in the All-Star Game! Who is this guy anyway!

 

This whole baseball thing is setup to make everyone to look bad in their predictions....... \\... it's just a mind f***etidoo...

Edited May 5, 2016 by SoxHop

[Bellhorn04]

There's nothing better than the shortlived three week stretch that starts with Buchholz being the best pitcher in baseball, and ends with surgery.

 

Good times indeed.

[Slasher9]

Price has been heavily criticized and scrutinized too. The problem is: A) Track record. Even in crappy starts, Price is going deep into games.

 

Besides, the peripheral numbers point to Price being unlucky, and Clay just plain sucking.

 

Perhaps the peripheral numbers point to Price's mediocre FB that he is not even close to locating getting absolutely pummeled. if he wants his BABIP to go down maybe he should start pitching like an "Ace" and not like a "Clay".....

[Bellhorn04]

Personally I'm hoping Price's velocity issues are due to a combo of workload fatigue and cold weather that will right themselves soon.

[Slasher9]

OP updated to include Clay's stats.......

[Bellhorn04]

Christian Vazquez seems like a guy who can get some good games out of Clay (until the inevitable injury).

[SoxnCycles]

There's nothing better than the shortlived three week stretch that starts with Buchholz being the best pitcher in baseball, and ends with surgery.

 

Yup, and with Price looking like he needs time to warm up his FB command and E-Rod just coming back, it could be perfect timing!

 

Whether it was Farrell leaning on Buchh publicly or getting in his face privately, I hope he does it every 5 games.

Just don't let him backslide

[Jack Flap]

It's really classic Clay, though...just when you're getting sick of his act and starting to think about whether and how soon you can eject him from the rotation, he demonstrates how good he's capable of being and gives you just enough to start believing again, even though you know it won't last...and the cycle continues. We've seen it year in and year out.

 

I'll take it while it lasts, though. Hopefully this was the beginning of one of his trademark 12-start stretches of 2.50 ERA.

[Hugh2]

Price peripherals suggest that he's had some bad luck. The strike outs and low walks are there, so I'd be very surprised if he doesn't pitch like an ace for most of the season.

 

Clay is back!!! but probably not for the rest of the season. Porcello is the one who I'm hoping is for real, and this was a guy who got better every single year up until last year. At 27 perhaps last year was the anomaly and he is becoming the #2 we were sold on him becoming.

 

Depth is important and we will need it at some point, so hopefully Owens can improve his command and E-Rod can get better too.

[Dojji]

Between Price, Porcello, E-Rod, and the fact that Wright shows no particular sign of turning into a pumpkin at the moment, the rotation looks like it might be gelling. If Buchholz can get on form so much the better. But count on nothing from buchholz.

[SoxnCycles]

We're going to find out how Owens does against a decent lineup tonight.

Hopefully, we're pleasantly surprised again.

 

Or the Sox light up the Johnson in his first ML start of the season.

Erik Johnson has done reasonably well in AAA.

[Hugh2]

I have no doubt Owens will get his swings and misses tonight. My concern is if his control isn't there that this team makes him pay when he puts guys on base.

 

Right now Owens is the type of pitcher who can pitch to this team if he's on....but a team like the White Sox will make him pay a lot more than NY did if he is all over the place.