Clay Buchholz - Is he worth the 2016 option?

[a700hitter]

His issue is he is frail. Does the head play a part in that? Who knows. I am not a doctor, so I don't know his physical issue. I just know that he has a track record of not being durable.

[Hugh2]

It was a no brainer Clay was a goner after the season, and the option wasn't even an option. Leave it to Clay to at least make it a conversation at this point.

 

Still, you can book him for either being injured or sucking for 1/2 the season next year. Can we live with Price/Porcello/Pomeranz/Wright/Erod next year? can Wright repeat, and can Erod show more consistency and contend for a rotation spot.

 

Still, as 700 said Clays problem is durability and I wonder if the money is better spent elsewhere. I'd love to see a trade to update the rotation and use the money to help bring in an Encarnation type.

Edited September 9, 2016 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[southpaw777]

Not many starters out there can be had for 1 year at $13M. Though Clay is and always will be a coin flip, it's better gamble than Masterson/Dempster types. So pick up his contract, shop him around, or keep him.

 

One year deals will be close to 17m this year, right? QUalifying offer.

That would make Clay a steal to any GM. Especially if he kills it the rest of the way. We would land a nice piece.

The question is...Do we take the chance at losing depth in the rotation?

Porcello

Price

Erod

Pomeranz

Wright

Buch?

Owens

Johnson

Elias

O'Sullivan

Haley

Without Buch there really is no reliable depth. We would absolutely have to shore up the pitching depth if Buch goes.

[southpaw777]

Yup, I hear you.

I agree, it would've been a mistake to DFa him.

They made the right move in putting him in the pen.

 

It either woke him up a little, or it gave him a chance to fix whatever problem he was having.

 

I've always thought Buchh was a head case, so I'm guessing that it's the former.

 

He said it himself. In the pen he didnt have much time to think about things. Just go out there and execute. I think he brought some of that mentality to being a starter. Everyone says a lot of his issues are between his ears and I agree... Sure hes had injuries, but i think the fact that he thinks he has to be 100% to pitch is more of a factor. Now iseems to me He has a different look to him, the way he works and his mechanics are a little different since returning from the pen. i like what Im seeing from him.

[moonslav59]

One year deals will be close to 17m this year, right? QUalifying offer.

That would make Clay a steal to any GM. Especially if he kills it the rest of the way. We would land a nice piece.

The question is...Do we take the chance at losing depth in the rotation?

Porcello

Price

Erod

Pomeranz

Wright

Buch?

Owens

Johnson

Elias

O'Sullivan

Haley

Without Buch there really is no reliable depth. We would absolutely have to shore up the pitching depth if Buch goes.

 

Well, we could replace Buch with another $7-14M type vet who may not have the upside but is more durable and reliable.

 

The lure of a possible draft pick in 2018 after a QO offer, if Buch has a great 2017, is probably the best argument to keep him here.

[moonslav59]

We did pay Dempster $13M to be our 4/5 starter, but would we have paid him that much to be our 6th starter?

[southpaw777]

We did pay Dempster $13M to be our 4/5 starter, but would we have paid him that much to be our 6th starter?

 

At this point, and that could change, They need depth. it would be like Rich Hill...why sign here for a possible rotation spot when they can be guaranteed one somewhere else. That and your not going to shell out much for a 6th starter. You would have to hit a lottery on a rule 5 guy or a vet with upside.

We could get something good back in a trade if we packaged Buch with another prospect like Devers. Then maybe you dont need to spend the 13m on a starter. This is all based on a solid finish for him.

[moonslav59]

At this point, and that could change, They need depth. it would be like Rich Hill...why sign here for a possible rotation spot when they can be guaranteed one somewhere else. That and your not going to shell out much for a 6th starter. You would have to hit a lottery on a rule 5 guy or a vet with upside.

We could get something good back in a trade if we packaged Buch with another prospect like Devers. Then maybe you dont need to spend the 13m on a starter. This is all based on a solid finish for him.

 

Well, people here are willing to "shell out" $13M for Buch as our 5/6 starter.

 

I can see having doubts about Wright and ERod, and maybe even Pomeranz, but it's still a solid 5 man rotation.

 

I'm certainly concerned about our 6th starter being Kelly/Johnson/Elias/Owens/O'Sullivan, but it's not worth $13M to me to make that concern go away.

 

I could see trading Buch and Swihart or Buch and Holt or Buch and Devers for a solid and more reliable starter, but then what? We put Wright or ERod in the pen?

 

I guess that's doable.

 

My philosophy is to rebuild the rotation from the top not the middle or bottom. I'm not sure Buch and Swihart would get us an ace type or solid #2 pitcher. Mayeb we go all out and get Sale or Quintana, and the Buch question is solved. We take his option and trade him for the best we can get, then we go with Wright or ERod as out long man/spot starter. That's something that makes more sense to me.

 

Would you trade ERod for Buch and Devers?

 

Would you trade Wright for Buch and Devers?

 

If no, then how are we going to get someone who beats out ERod and Wright for those two? It seems silly to trade Buch and Devers to upgrade our 6th starter.

 

If you would make one or both of the deals above, how much of an upgrade would you expect from the guy we get back? Give a name of the type of pitcher you think we could get for Buch and Devers.

 

I can't think of many rebuilding teams that would want Buch and his $13M contract. I can't think of any contenders that would give us a better starter than Buch, if they want to win now- Devers would not help them now. It's like a catch -22. Maybe, we could get a pitcher in return who is paid more than Buch, so that would add motivation to the other team.

 

I'm looking at a winter spending budget of about $30-35M. Someone else thinks it might be closer to $40M. This is not counting Buch's option of $13.5M or a $500K buyout. We may want to try and find a short term big bat solution at DH, 1B, 3B or LF. We tried to trade for Beltran, so I'm thinking maybe we go after him. He may want a 2-3 year deal, and we may want 1-2. Some here want Encarnacion, but I think he'll ask for and get 5-6 years somewhere. With Moncada, Beni and Devers on the team, I'm not sure a long term deal for a DH type is the right move. Reagardless, we may spend on something offensively. Then there is the pen. I see this for next year:

 

RP1 Kimbrel

RP2 _______

RP3 Smith

RP4 _______

RP5 Ross

RP6 Kelly

RP7 Barnes/Hembree/Abad/Elias

 

Now, I realize 2 solid RPer's or 1 solid RP'er and 2 decent ones will not cost $30M. but with Buch's $13M added in, we may not be able to do everything we want and still stay below the now 50% luxury tax.

 

 

[S5Dewey]

We did pay Dempster $13M to be our 4/5 starter, but would we have paid him that much to be our 6th starter?

 

IMO we didn't intend to pay Dempster $13M to be our #5 starter. IMO he was being paid to be our #3/#4. That's just how things worked out, and I have no regrets. If one considers $13M to be the benchmark for a #3/#4 in 2013 then given the salary escalation in those 4 years $13M isn't a bad buy for even a #4 next year.

 

I've been frustrated with his durability too, but IMO when it comes to a contract his lack of durability is offset by his huge upside. It's a gamble.

 

If we could clone him and sign both of 'him' for $26M total I'd do it, so why not sign one of him for $13M?

[Kimmi]

A big part of the appeal of picking up these options is that each option is only for ONE year. It's common practice for GMs to pay more money for fewer years. $13 mil a year for a solid starter is a decent deal in a multi year deal. For one year, it becomes that much better. A team can almost always absorb a one year contract if the player busts.

[moonslav59]

...his lack of durability is offset by his huge upside.

 

 

I agree, but let it be for another team.

 

I want durability.

[oldtimer]

Well, people here are willing to "shell out" $13M for Buch as our 5/6 starter.

 

I can see having doubts about Wright and ERod, and maybe even Pomeranz, but it's still a solid 5 man rotation.

 

I'm certainly concerned about our 6th starter being Kelly/Johnson/Elias/Owens/O'Sullivan, but it's not worth $13M to me to make that concern go away.

 

I could see trading Buch and Swihart or Buch and Holt or Buch and Devers for a solid and more reliable starter, but then what? We put Wright or ERod in the pen?

 

I guess that's doable.

 

My philosophy is to rebuild the rotation from the top not the middle or bottom. I'm not sure Buch and Swihart would get us an ace type or solid #2 pitcher. Mayeb we go all out and get Sale or Quintana, and the Buch question is solved. We take his option and trade him for the best we can get, then we go with Wright or ERod as out long man/spot starter. That's something that makes more sense to me.

 

Would you trade ERod for Buch and Devers?

 

Would you trade Wright for Buch and Devers?

 

If no, then how are we going to get someone who beats out ERod and Wright for those two? It seems silly to trade Buch and Devers to upgrade our 6th starter.

 

If you would make one or both of the deals above, how much of an upgrade would you expect from the guy we get back? Give a name of the type of pitcher you think we could get for Buch and Devers.

 

I can't think of many rebuilding teams that would want Buch and his $13M contract. I can't think of any contenders that would give us a better starter than Buch, if they want to win now- Devers would not help them now. It's like a catch -22. Maybe, we could get a pitcher in return who is paid more than Buch, so that would add motivation to the other team.

 

I'm looking at a winter spending budget of about $30-35M. Someone else thinks it might be closer to $40M. This is not counting Buch's option of $13.5M or a $500K buyout. We may want to try and find a short term big bat solution at DH, 1B, 3B or LF. We tried to trade for Beltran, so I'm thinking maybe we go after him. He may want a 2-3 year deal, and we may want 1-2. Some here want Encarnacion, but I think he'll ask for and get 5-6 years somewhere. With Moncada, Beni and Devers on the team, I'm not sure a long term deal for a DH type is the right move. Reagardless, we may spend on something offensively. Then there is the pen. I see this for next year:

 

RP1 Kimbrel

RP2 _______

RP3 Smith

RP4 _______

RP5 Ross

RP6 Kelly

RP7 Barnes/Hembree/Abad/Elias

 

Now, I realize 2 solid RPer's or 1 solid RP'er and 2 decent ones will not cost $30M. but with Buch's $13M added in, we may not be able to do everything we want and still stay below the now 50% luxury tax.

 

 

 

I am trying to remember whose other salaries will be coming off the books next year. Did you take Hill, Holaday and Hanigan off our player list as I doubt they will be there? What about Rutledge? Do you think any of our young high potential pitchers will make the grade next season? It looks to be as Leon and Vazquez will be our catching duo next season. The outfield looks set with Young for Utility, the infield also looks solid with the exception of 1st and 3rd. If you believe Shaw will be at 1st and Moncada will manage to handle 3rd, then you have two utility infielders to include for salaries. Will they be some combination of Holt, Rutledge, Hernandez and Swihart (assume him to be flexible at OF, C and possibly FB)?

 

My view is find 2 RP's that make a difference. Hard to see how the SP can be improved except to add to the depth. I'd hate to see us trade a winner and get a high price, long term contract guy who would be only a marginal improvement.

[moonslav59]

I am trying to remember whose other salaries will be coming off the books next year. Did you take Hill, Holaday and Hanigan off our player list as I doubt they will be there? What about Rutledge? Do you think any of our young high potential pitchers will make the grade next season? It looks to be as Leon and Vazquez will be our catching duo next season. The outfield looks set with Young for Utility, the infield also looks solid with the exception of 1st and 3rd. If you believe Shaw will be at 1st and Moncada will manage to handle 3rd, then you have two utility infielders to include for salaries. Will they be some combination of Holt, Rutledge, Hernandez and Swihart (assume him to be flexible at OF, C and possibly FB)?

 

My view is find 2 RP's that make a difference. Hard to see how the SP can be improved except to add to the depth. I'd hate to see us trade a winner and get a high price, long term contract guy who would be only a marginal improvement.

 

FAs to be:

 

Ortiz

Uehara

Tazawa

Ziegler

Hill

 

Options:

Buchholz ($13.5M or $500K buyout)

Hanigan ($3.75M or $800K)

 

Let's just assume Buchholz and Hanigan are not back next year. Here is what we would be looking at for the 25 and 40 man roster:

 

SP: Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright, ERod, Kelly

RP: Kimbrel, _____, Smith, ____, Ross, Barnes, Abad

C: Leon, Vazquez

DH/1B: Ramirez

1B/3B: Shaw

2B: Pedroia

3B: Moncada

SS: Bogaerts

LF: Benintendi

LF/DH: Young

LF/C/1B?: Swihart

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

Utility: Holt

 

Wild card: Sandoval (Holt or Swihart could be traded, or Swihart could start in AAA) That's 26 players. The other 14:

 

SP: Johnson, Owens, Elias

RP: Hembree, Scott, Workman, N Ramirez, W Jerez

C: Romanski, Holaday (no options)

1B: J Witte (rule 5)

SS/3B/2B: Hernandez

SS/2B/3B: Marrero

3B/2B: Rutledge

OF: Brentz

 

(Dubon, Basabe not rule 5)

 

I think we keep Rutledge. He has 2 options remaining. I think Brentz might be gone, but we are short on OF depth.

 

[Kimmi]

...his lack of durability is offset by his huge upside.

 

 

I agree, but let it be for another team.

 

I want durability.

 

Certainly, I get the frustration with Clay's lack of durability. I prefer durability too.

 

That said, a 'half year' pitcher can end up being a blessing in disguise. If the pitcher is healthy for the first half of the season, sometimes that's just enough time to give a youngster in AAA before he's ready to be called up.

 

If the pitcher gets injured midseason, sometimes they come back in August or September, healthy and well rested, and provide a much needed boost to the team. Injured players coming back later in the season are sometimes the best 'trade deadline acquisitions'.

 

These are not the kinds of things you plan for or hope for, but there is still some very good value from having a good player for half a season.

[devildavid]

I hope Clay keeps on improving his trade value while helping the team make the playoffs.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with mvp on this. They aren't going to exercise the option and then trade him. That's the kind of thing armchair GM's love to talk about but hardly ever happens in reality.

[oldtimer]

FAs to be:

 

Ortiz

Uehara

Tazawa

Ziegler

Hill

 

Options:

Buchholz ($13.5M or $500K buyout)

Hanigan ($3.75M or $800K)

 

Let's just assume Buchholz and Hanigan are not back next year. Here is what we would be looking at for the 25 and 40 man roster:

 

SP: Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright, ERod, Kelly

RP: Kimbrel, _____, Smith, ____, Ross, Barnes, Abad

C: Leon, Vazquez

DH/1B: Ramirez

1B/3B: Shaw

2B: Pedroia

3B: Moncada

SS: Bogaerts

LF: Benintendi

LF/DH: Young

LF/C/1B?: Swihart

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

Utility: Holt

 

Wild card: Sandoval (Holt or Swihart could be traded, or Swihart could start in AAA) That's 26 players. The other 14:

 

SP: Johnson, Owens, Elias

RP: Hembree, Scott, Workman, N Ramirez, W Jerez

C: Romanski, Holaday (no options)

1B: J Witte (rule 5)

SS/3B/2B: Hernandez

SS/2B/3B: Marrero

3B/2B: Rutledge

OF: Brentz

 

(Dubon, Basabe not rule 5)

 

I think we keep Rutledge. He has 2 options remaining. I think Brentz might be gone, but we are short on OF depth.

 

 

The 25 man roster looks pretty good as you state it, with the possible exception of Moncada, who is doing his best imitation of Ethelred the Unready, Barnes who has a good arm but is often ineffective and Holt who might be trade bait, although he is an effective utility guy, but he has trade value.

 

The 40 man roster you include Rutledge and Hernandez, either of which could replace Holt on the 25 man roster if Holt gets traded. Sandoval is that albatross that is hung around DD's neck. What to do with him? Marrero could be trade bait although a low value player. Holaday is only worth keeping as an insurance policy. Brentz is not that talented and outfielder or hitter and could be replaced with better. I don't know Romanski or Witte.

 

I would give a long look to Kopech if they can settle his motion down. A thrower like him might fit well into the BP, provided he has the right temperament for the team. I hear he is firey. At 21 next season, he should be old enough to make the jump.

 

Of the FA's, Ortiz is really retiring, Hill shouldn't be kept, Ziegler is good but he will be 38 and a big multiyear contract wouldn't make sense. Uehara is old and fragile and despite a good showing going out this year, we couldn't expect him to be available for much of the season. He is a no go for me. Tazawa has been good and if we don't wear him out he can be of value. Still good velocity, still a veteran who has good through the wars, and still young enough to warrant a contract, but not for huge bucks. Maybe DD makes an offer but can't land him.

 

Look to the minors before signing outside players.

[oldtimer]

Clay certainly didn't offer a lot of reasons to pick him up for another year with the showing today at Toronto. Guys are allowed some leeway, but Clay has had more opportunities than most and must be on a shorter leash than some of our younger guys.

[User Name]

Then again, it was Toronto at Toronto, and the ball was flying out of the park. The guy we hammered into oblivion was the AL ERA leader before today's showing.

[Bellhorn04]

Then again, it was Toronto at Toronto, and the ball was flying out of the park. The guy we hammered into oblivion was the AL ERA leader before today's showing.

 

Yeah, the Jays announcers said early that the wind was blowing out hard today.

[Dojji]

Clay certainly didn't offer a lot of reasons to pick him up for another year with the showing today at Toronto. Guys are allowed some leeway, but Clay has had more opportunities than most and must be on a shorter leash than some of our younger guys.

 

I agree with this. People waiting for Clay to magically be consistent at this point in his career are kidding themselves. He's a littery ticket, a 1 in whatever chance of a great player, but most likely to leave you wanting. We can do better.

[Wade Boggs]

I agree with this. People waiting for Clay to magically be consistent at this point in his career are kidding themselves. He's a littery ticket, a 1 in whatever chance of a great player, but most likely to leave you wanting. We can do better.

 

No doubt. But he has to pitch the rest of the way. They have nobody else. He was bad yesterday. We all agree.

 

It's Buchholz or Owens. Make your pick. We don't want Owens pitching unless it's a simulated game throwing Beni BP.

[Slasher9]

5 years / $45MM is the offer i would make to him today.

[Slasher9]

Then again, it was Toronto at Toronto, and the ball was flying out of the park. The guy we hammered into oblivion was the AL ERA leader before today's showing.

 

this post impressed me. well done sir.

[moonslav59]

The 25 man roster looks pretty good as you state it, with the possible exception of Moncada, who is doing his best imitation of Ethelred the Unready...

 

We could see Pablo start on the 25 man roster with Moncada at AAA. Or, we could see Hernandez at 3B.

 

 

Barnes who has a good arm but is often ineffective and Holt who might be trade bait, although he is an effective utility guy, but he has trade value.

 

I'd keep Barnes. He still has upside.

 

The 40 man roster you include Rutledge and Hernandez, either of which could replace Holt on the 25 man roster if Holt gets traded. Sandoval is that albatross that is hung around DD's neck. What to do with him?

We may do what we did with Craig and Castillo, but I think we'll wait until ST'ing to decide on Pablo.

 

Marrero could be trade bait although a low value player.

 

He's SS depth kept at AAA.

 

Holaday is only worth keeping as an insurance policy.

 

He's out of options, so it's him or Vaz (or Swi).

 

Brentz is not that talented and outfielder or hitter and could be replaced with better.

 

I'd have cut Brentz already, if our OF depth wasn't so thin.

 

I don't know Romanski

 

He's the AAA catcher with options remaining. Butler is also an option.

 

or Witte.

 

Maybe just a AAAA wonder

 

I would give a long look to Kopech if they can settle his motion down. A thrower like him might fit well into the BP, provided he has the right temperament for the team. I hear he is firey. At 21 next season, he should be old enough to make the jump.

 

Perhaps by mid-season. Maybe he'll get a ST'ing invite.

 

Of the FA's, Ortiz is really retiring, Hill shouldn't be kept, Ziegler is good but he will be 38 and a big multiyear contract wouldn't make sense. Uehara is old and fragile and despite a good showing going out this year, we couldn't expect him to be available for much of the season. He is a no go for me. Tazawa has been good and if we don't wear him out he can be of value. Still good velocity, still a veteran who has good through the wars, and still young enough to warrant a contract, but not for huge bucks. Maybe DD makes an offer but can't land him.

 

I doubt we keep any of our free agents to be.

 

Look to the minors before signing outside players.

 

I think we go after Beltran and 2 solid set-up RP'ers (FA or trade). We may sign a vet 5th starter type as insurance, even if we keep Buch.

Edited September 12, 2016 by moonslav59

[sk7326]

The 25 man roster looks pretty good as you state it, with the possible exception of Moncada, who is doing his best imitation of Ethelred the Unready, Barnes who has a good arm but is often ineffective and Holt who might be trade bait, although he is an effective utility guy, but he has trade value.

 

The 40 man roster you include Rutledge and Hernandez, either of which could replace Holt on the 25 man roster if Holt gets traded. Sandoval is that albatross that is hung around DD's neck. What to do with him? Marrero could be trade bait although a low value player. Holaday is only worth keeping as an insurance policy. Brentz is not that talented and outfielder or hitter and could be replaced with better. I don't know Romanski or Witte.

 

I would give a long look to Kopech if they can settle his motion down. A thrower like him might fit well into the BP, provided he has the right temperament for the team. I hear he is firey. At 21 next season, he should be old enough to make the jump.

 

Of the FA's, Ortiz is really retiring, Hill shouldn't be kept, Ziegler is good but he will be 38 and a big multiyear contract wouldn't make sense. Uehara is old and fragile and despite a good showing going out this year, we couldn't expect him to be available for much of the season. He is a no go for me. Tazawa has been good and if we don't wear him out he can be of value. Still good velocity, still a veteran who has good through the wars, and still young enough to warrant a contract, but not for huge bucks. Maybe DD makes an offer but can't land him.

 

Look to the minors before signing outside players.

 

There are trades and free agents based on MLB rules - so projections at this time seem dicey.

 

Really, you sign a bunch of pitchers with some swing and miss and see what sticks bullpenwise. Maybe they look at dealing Bradley as part of a trade for a Sale or Quintana (deals that were discussed but tabled at the deadline). It frees Betts to move to CF, and the Sox can negotiate LF (assuming Benintendi moves to RF for range reasons) either year-to-year, or maybe put Moncada there and see what happens - like they did with Cora in 2007, you sign a decent veteran on the chance the kid isn't any good. (Shaw is probably good enough at 3B not to fuss with that too much).

[southpaw777]

FAs to be:

 

Ortiz

Uehara

Tazawa

Ziegler

Hill

 

Options:

Buchholz ($13.5M or $500K buyout)

Hanigan ($3.75M or $800k

 

Let's just assume Buchholz and Hanigan are not back next year. Here is what we would be looking at for the 25 and 40 man roster:

 

SP: Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright, ERod, Kelly

RP: Kimbrel, _____, Smith, ____, Ross, Barnes, Abad

C: Leon, Vazquez

DH/1B: Ramirez

1B/3B: Shaw

2B: Pedroia

3B: Moncada

SS: Bogaerts

LF: Benintendi

LF/DH: Young

LF/C/1B?: Swihart

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

Utility: Holt

 

Wild card: Sandoval (Holt or Swihart could be traded, or Swihart could start in AAA) That's 26 players. The other 14:

 

 

SP: Johnson, Owens, Elias

RP: Hembree, Scott, Workman, N Ramirez, W Jerez

C: Romanski, Holaday (no options)

1B: J Witte (rule 5)

SS/3B/2B: Hernandez

SS/2B/3B: Marrero

3B/2B: Rutledge

OF: Brentz

 

(Dubon, Basabe not rule 5)

 

I think we keep Rutledge. He has 2 options remaining. I think Brentz might be gone, but we are short on OF depth.

 

 

Pretty sure all those FA will NOT be here in 2017. thats fine by me.

Pass on Hanny and Im leaning on picking up the Buchholz option as we have zero pitching depth. I do think we can replace Clays depth with a lesser price tag, so im still kinda on the fence right now. Id really like that 13M.

I think Kellys days as a starter are done. hes had his chances. Hes going to be around 3M for his 2nd arb. he has to be in the pen or just let him walk and save 3M. I think he can be a nice piece in the pen once he gets fully acclimated there again. Barnes, Kelly, and Smith are all hard throwers with a good off-speed pitch.

Sandoval has got to be the biggest WC this off-season. Id play him in winter ball if hes ready, to show other teams hes good to go, then Id trade him if I can. maybe add a prospect or take back some salary for a player we can use. realistically, at some point in the near future it looks like Moncada is taking over 3b and Panda will have no home anyway.With Shaw and Holt were ok there until Moncada is 100% ready. Im thinking DD has to be looking at it that way as well.

Rutledge has his 1st arb year 2017 so we need to think if we really want to pay him 1-1.5M or just use guys like Hernandez and Marero. Id think the latter.

Swihart should get reps as a C in AAA to build that value back up a bit. hes still has plenty, but as a C he will have more. all he has to do is be serviceable behind the dish. his calling card is the athleticism and his bat as a SH catcher

we have plenty of catching depth and will probably not bring back a couple guys. im guessing Holaday and Hanny. we would have Swihart and Romanski. Butler is there now but I thin k he was a 1year depth deal. he could resign again too.

there will be PLENTY of movement this winter. I dont see a blockbuster, but more a lot of smaller moves. but this is DD were talking about. He could easily package up guys to get another front line starter. I just think with Price and Porcello at 1 and 1a, a 23yo Erod, Pomeranz in his prime and Wright still in the mix, theres not a glaring need to make a big splash in the rotation. If we keep Buch that rounds out a solid 1-6. hopefully Johnson or Owens can take a step forward and guys like Haley and Elias can help out, but we will need starting depth as always.

as far as the pen, we have our closer and three guys I like to battle for the 7th and 8th in Barnes Kelly and Smith. i think we bring in a bunch of guys and see who sticks for the rest. I dont care to throw $$ at the pen beside a closer. maybe pay a little for an established late innings arm, but we already have a closer so no names like Chapman. those guys want to close.

The pen seems like the place that needs some attention, but when I look at the roster, I dont see any real holes that cant be easily taken care of. a good amount of $$ is coming off the books and DD will be hard at work looking to shed some more of it while making the necessary improvements.

1b - Hanley - Shaw - Travis

2b - Pedey - Holt - Hernandez/Marrero

ss - Bogey - Marrero - Hernandez - Holt

3b - Shaw - Holt - Panda -

OF - Benintendi - JBJ - Betts - Young - Brentz - Castillo

C - Leon - Vaz - Swihart - Romanski

SP - Price - Porcello - Pomeranz - Erod, Wright - Buchholz - Owens - Johnson - Haley - Elias

RP - Kimbrel - Smith - Barnes - Kelly - Ross jr - Hembree - Abad

Guys like Kyle Martin - Robbie Scott - Brandon Workman - Austin Maddox, Noe Ramirez, and Chandler Sheppard will all be looking to secure a possible Bullpen role with Boston as well...

[S5Dewey]

There are trades and free agents based on MLB rules - so projections at this time seem dicey.

 

Really, you sign a bunch of pitchers with some swing and miss and see what sticks bullpenwise. Maybe they look at dealing Bradley as part of a trade for a Sale or Quintana (deals that were discussed but tabled at the deadline). It frees Betts to move to CF, and the Sox can negotiate LF (assuming Benintendi moves to RF for range reasons) either year-to-year, or maybe put Moncada there and see what happens - like they did with Cora in 2007, you sign a decent veteran on the chance the kid isn't any good. (Shaw is probably good enough at 3B not to fuss with that too much).

 

Why are some people so hot on trading JBJ??? Is it because they continually undervalue the defensive side of his game? Him, Mookie, Bogaerts are people you build a team around, not people you trade away!

DD tried to trade for JBJ when he was in Detroit. I doubt that he's going to want to trade him away now.

[southpaw777]

Why are some people so hot on trading JBJ??? Is it because they continually undervalue the defensive side of his game? Him, Mookie, Bogaerts are people you build a team around, not people you trade away!

DD tried to trade for JBJ when he was in Detroit. I doubt that he's going to want to trade him away now.

 

just the opposite. they think he has a ton of value to get something back. im guessing they believe with Betts and Benni being CFers as well, can step in and there wouldnt be a huge drop off in production. they may not be as good as him on D but they are still plenty good.

I wouldnt trade him, but thats some of the thinking from others...seriously, who has ever said anything bad about his D?

[sk7326]

Why are some people so hot on trading JBJ??? Is it because they continually undervalue the defensive side of his game? Him, Mookie, Bogaerts are people you build a team around, not people you trade away!

DD tried to trade for JBJ when he was in Detroit. I doubt that he's going to want to trade him away now.

 

If he can be dealt as part of a way to get a Cy Young caliber pitcher - that seems like a fair return. When I suggest trades it is almost never about not liking the guy being dealt.