Clay Buchholz - Is he worth the 2016 option?

[Kimmi]

@peteabe

Buchholz mentioned that it was Chili Davis who suggested he pitch exclusively from the stretch. He thought his ball “got on” hitters faster.

 

Good stuff here.

 

I know I've mentioned it before, but I have to give some credit to Bannister being in the dugout as well. Not just for Clay, but for the pitching staff as a whole turning it around.

 

Entering tonight, Red Sox pitchers had a 3.53 ERA and 1.182 WHIP since Brian Bannister joined the coaching staff on July 5. Prior to that, they had a collective 4.48 ERA and 1.349 WHIP.

Scott Lauber, ESPN Staff Writer

 

Coincidence? I think not.

[Bellhorn04]

There is no question that Buchholz has some value, especially when you consider that everyone is looking for pitching and this free agent class for starting pitching is ugly.

 

If we trade him we'll be looking for one more pitcher too.

[Kimmi]

The option is easy - it's so cheap that just by being a pretty good swingman, he will justify the investment. Doing so does not preclude the Sox from anything.

 

Now that Clay has had a turnaround, I'd have to agree. Picking up the option is once again becoming a no brainer.

[Bellhorn04]

Entering tonight, Red Sox pitchers had a 3.53 ERA and 1.182 WHIP since Brian Bannister joined the coaching staff on July 5. Prior to that, they had a collective 4.48 ERA and 1.349 WHIP.

Scott Lauber, ESPN Staff Writer

 

Wow - this gives me major warm and fuzzy feelings.

[Eddy Ballgame]

If we trade him we'll be looking for one more pitcher too.

 

Agreed, but it all depends on the return. They could go with Price-Porcello-E-Rod-Pomeranz-Wright next year, although I wouldn't be surprised if they bring in a veteran who can give you 200 innings, especially with E-Rod & Pomeranz never having done so and the knuckleball being pretty volatile.

[Kimmi]

Wow - this gives me major warm and fuzzy feelings.

 

The whole team is giving me major warm and fuzzy feelings right now.

[Spudboy]

There is no question that Buchholz has some value, especially when you consider that everyone is looking for pitching and this free agent class for starting pitching is ugly.

 

True.

 

But does the possibility of trading for another ( better piece ) outweigh Buch's value as a 5-6 starter for the 2017 Sox.

 

Most everyone knows that I left the Buch train 2 years ago.

 

But now, even at what I consider dumb money, I see value in Buch.

 

The Sox do not have SP depth to spare. Counting on Owens or even Johnson to morph into functional replacements by next season is foolish when we have a bird in the hand, so to speak.

 

I say keep him because we will most likely need him, warts and all.

[sk7326]

There is no question that Buchholz has some value, especially when you consider that everyone is looking for pitching and this free agent class for starting pitching is ugly.

 

oh it's bad - but i am not sure it will drive his price too high

[Eddy Ballgame]

True.

 

But does the possibility of trading for another ( better piece ) outweigh Buch's value as a 5-6 starter for the 2017 Sox.

 

Most everyone knows that I left the Buch train 2 years ago.

 

But now, even at what I consider dumb money, I see value in Buch.

 

The Sox do not have SP depth to spare. Counting on Owens or even Johnson to morph into functional replacements by next season is foolish when we have a bird in the hand, so to speak.

 

I say keep him because we will most likely need him, warts and all.

 

I agree that it's definitely a possibility that they keep him, I'm just thinking that it's also possible that they decide to go with someone who has lesser stuff, but is much more durable, especially if they feel that they can get some real value in return.

[Nick]

Maybe, maybe him throwing from stretch has helped him minimize his lack of control issues.

 

I didn't like it that he was falling off the mound when over throwing his fastballs.....

 

You can see why some fall in love with him when he has all of his pitches going.....

 

Yeah, he's worth $13M if he can give us quality starts...

[S5Dewey]

I agree that it's definitely a possibility that they keep him, I'm just thinking that it's also possible that they decide to go with someone who has lesser stuff, but is much more durable, especially if they feel that they can get some real value in return.

 

Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

[moonslav59]

Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

 

I don't know about that!

[Bellhorn04]

Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

 

Clay actually looks like a devil in the picture Station13 is using as his avatar.

[cp176]

Yes is my answer but you all know that i don't care how JH spends his money as long as it looks like it might help us.

[Nick]

My guess is that they will pick up the option. If they don't, then the management is intent on making a trade to acquire another starting pitcher. We need pitching depth and we can't go into spring training with one less starter. It's simply not prudent to go with Price, Porcello, E Rod, Pomeranz and Wright. Kelly needs to stay in the bullpen.

 

$13M might be much cheaper than giving up players and picking up the salary of acquired pitcher.

 

If things are going smoothly without Buch, then we can trade him in August.

[SoxHop]

DD has much time to deal with Clay. My guess is another team would take a chance on him. When does the option have to be picked up?

 

Clay could be used in a package. How about Clay and Pomerance or E-Rod and Vasquez or Swihart for something better......... (just throwing names out there)

 

I know the reason most people don't like Clay is that he can be a burden to the rotation as he will probably be injured during a year, or maybe crap out. But you could also look at him as giving us some flexibility.. he's an interesting piece that could be used for value or just be valuable. Or he could crap out....

[Emp9]

There is no question that Buchholz has some value, especially when you consider that everyone is looking for pitching and this free agent class for starting pitching is ugly.

 

I tend to agree. It's not just about him, if available he might be a top 3 SP out of this upcoming class of free agents. It makes him definite trade bait. So it's trade bait or cut bait... I'm still on the fence.

[SoxHop]

DD has much time to deal with Clay. My guess is another team would take a chance on him. When does the option have to be picked up?

 

Clay could be used in a package. How about Clay and Pomerance or E-Rod and Vasquez or Swihart for something better......... (just throwing names out there)

 

I know the reason most people don't like Clay is that he can be a burden to the rotation as he will probably be injured during a year, or maybe crap out. But you could also look at him as giving us some flexibility.. he's an interesting piece that could be used for value or just be valuable. Or he could crap out....

 

I take this back. Trading two pitchers for one would be incredibly stupid with what we have. But I'd trade Buchholtz and bats for a more reliable starter.

[Dojji]

I think there's just enough value in Clay to tempt a team to pick up the full value of his contract..

[Bellhorn04]

Clay will not be traded. He represents the same value to the 2017 team as he does to this 2016 team right now - a #6 starter, or a 'rotation reinforcement', as Alex Speier put it yesterday. As Speier says, we have a serious weakness in starting pitching depth due to the non-performance of Owens and Johnson and whoever else might have filled that role. This holds true for 2017 as much as it did for 2016.

[SoxHop]

Clay will not be traded. He represents the same value to the 2017 team as he does to this 2016 team right now - a #6 starter, or a 'rotation reinforcement', as Alex Speier put it yesterday. As Speier says, we have a serious weakness in starting pitching depth due to the non-performance of Owens and Johnson and whoever else might have filled that role. This holds true for 2017 as much as it did for 2016.

 

I'd only trade pitching for pitching. Clay plus bats could get a top rotation starter. There's no way we'd trade pitching for bats for sure. It probably won't happen, but I would think DD would consider it.

[Wade Boggs]

Clay will not be traded. He represents the same value to the 2017 team as he does to this 2016 team right now - a #6 starter, or a 'rotation reinforcement', as Alex Speier put it yesterday. As Speier says, we have a serious weakness in starting pitching depth due to the non-performance of Owens and Johnson and whoever else might have filled that role. This holds true for 2017 as much as it did for 2016.

 

 

What you have posted , is the most likely thing to happen. The only way he would get traded is, if they didn't contend by the TDL of next year, he would be moved if he was pitching good.. Right now - just a hunch... He's here with us for 17.

[S5Dewey]

I'd only trade pitching for pitching. Clay plus bats could get a top rotation starter. There's no way we'd trade pitching for bats for sure. It probably won't happen, but I would think DD would consider it.

 

If there's one thing that should have come out of this year it's that if you don't have pitching you don't have much. We've got bats. We need pitching. Would we trade pitching for bats? I hope not!

[Nick]

We simply don't have enough pitching in our farm system to give up on someone even as volatile as Clay B. I wouldn't be completely surprised if we extend him sometime during next year. I also think Clay wants to be in Boston. He doesn't seem to be a guy that would adjust well in another environment. Two years at $35M with team friendly options should do the trick.

[Dojji]

If they use him like they were forced to use him this year, as a reservist who comes in when he's hot and takes a seat for a few turns when he starts to suck consistently, and they have the depth to manage that, I'm OK with putting up with another year of Buchholz. But IN. NO. FREAKING. WAY do I want to hear about them considering Buchholz as having a permanent spot in the rotation or counting him as one of the starting 5, or, and especially, failing to upgrade the rotation if it would mean taking Buchholz out of "his" spot. He doesn't have a spot. There is no "spot" as far as Buchholz is concerned.

 

I want him unsettled. I want him humbled. I want him to feel like he has to fight for every pitch he GETS to throw on that mound for this team. That seems to be the only way to get his attention and they'd better use ALL the pressure they can on this guy to get him productive for his final year on this team because once this option is done, that's it, that's the last option year and once the option years are done he's no more singificant to this team at that point than any other FA and we can probably do better going elsewhere.

[Slasher9]

repeating something i stated in another thread:

ZERO confidence in David Price. zero. 0. this guys is not an "ace".

to all the "price apologists" on this forum...i am sorry, but i have now given it an entire season and he is not an "ace". no way an ace has an ERA over 4. NO WAY. i dont give a FLIP what his "PERIPHERALS" are. and we have 6 MORE YEARS of this contract.

i will go back to a statement i made a couple months ago. Price should be in the bullpen for the postseason. this guy may singlehandedly cost us a championship and cost Big Papi the final parade......

Porc

Clay

Pom

Erod

 

price can mop up in the playoffs......

[moonslav59]

repeating something i stated in another thread:

ZERO confidence in David Price. zero. 0. this guys is not an "ace".

to all the "price apologists" on this forum...i am sorry, but i have now given it an entire season and he is not an "ace". no way an ace has an ERA over 4. NO WAY. i dont give a FLIP what his "PERIPHERALS" are. and we have 6 MORE YEARS of this contract.

i will go back to a statement i made a couple months ago. Price should be in the bullpen for the postseason. this guy may singlehandedly cost us a championship and cost Big Papi the final parade......

Porc

Clay

Pom

Erod

 

price can mop up in the playoffs......

 

Pom is hurt.

[moonslav59]

If they use him like they were forced to use him this year, as a reservist who comes in when he's hot and takes a seat for a few turns when he starts to suck consistently, and they have the depth to manage that, I'm OK with putting up with another year of Buchholz. But IN. NO. FREAKING. WAY do I want to hear about them considering Buchholz as having a permanent spot in the rotation or counting him as one of the starting 5, or, and especially, failing to upgrade the rotation if it would mean taking Buchholz out of "his" spot. He doesn't have a spot. There is no "spot" as far as Buchholz is concerned.

 

I want him unsettled. I want him humbled. I want him to feel like he has to fight for every pitch he GETS to throw on that mound for this team. That seems to be the only way to get his attention and they'd better use ALL the pressure they can on this guy to get him productive for his final year on this team because once this option is done, that's it, that's the last option year and once the option years are done he's no more singificant to this team at that point than any other FA and we can probably do better going elsewhere.

 

I seriously doubt the Sox do this, but I'd take the option and trade him for a good prospect that I may flip as part of a bigger package for Quintana or Sale.

 

I've been one of Buch's biggest supporters for years, and I'm done with him. I'm not fooled by his recent improvement. I'm happy for it, and hope it increases our return on trade.

 

Buch will get hurt or suck next year. It's at least a 50-50 chance.

[SoxnCycles]

repeating something i stated in another thread:

ZERO confidence in David Price. zero. 0. this guys is not an "ace".

to all the "price apologists" on this forum...i am sorry, but i have now given it an entire season and he is not an "ace". no way an ace has an ERA over 4. NO WAY. i dont give a FLIP what his "PERIPHERALS" are. and we have 6 MORE YEARS of this contract.

i will go back to a statement i made a couple months ago. Price should be in the bullpen for the postseason. this guy may singlehandedly cost us a championship and cost Big Papi the final parade......

Porc

Clay

Pom

Erod

 

price can mop up in the playoffs......

 

Unfortunately, Moon is correct. Pomeranz isn't pitching in the post season so we're stuck with Price.

Just hope he's not pitching in any "must win" games.

[User Name]

repeating something i stated in another thread:

ZERO confidence in David Price. zero. 0. this guys is not an "ace".

to all the "price apologists" on this forum...i am sorry, but i have now given it an entire season and he is not an "ace". no way an ace has an ERA over 4. NO WAY. i dont give a FLIP what his "PERIPHERALS" are. and we have 6 MORE YEARS of this contract.

i will go back to a statement i made a couple months ago. Price should be in the bullpen for the postseason. this guy may singlehandedly cost us a championship and cost Big Papi the final parade......

Porc

Clay

Pom

Erod

 

price can mop up in the playoffs......

 

Ok.