Red Sox Have "Aggressive" Offer On Table For Alex Bregman

[drewski6]

15 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

Sooooooo far from confirmed. Got it. 

I wish they did postmortem autopsies on all these organizations. Would be the one way to somewhat redeem the slime ball Boras. If after the deal was over, he just said yeah Red Sox offered three years 90 million to Pete Alonso. Mets offered four years 120 and of course Baltimore offered five years 150. I started thinking about this yesterday as Imai had his press conference and alluded to the fact that he left money on the table to go to Houston. It would be fun to know who else was in on him.

 

Obviously, I know this is never gonna happen but would make it more fun. And let’s be honest, baseball off-season is the worst off-season of any sport not even close. 

Fun question how would you guys improve baseball off-season? What changes what you make to make it more exciting and draw more attention to the sport?

 

cold-stove season has been a snoozer for sure.

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Tolle has one MLB caliber pitch right now. He's not even a capable rotation guy yet. Calling him a top 4 pitcher in the AL in '26 is a little much TBH. 

Top 3 now

[Bellhorn04]

16 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

Sooooooo far from confirmed. Got it. 

I wish they did postmortem autopsies on all these organizations. Would be the one way to somewhat redeem the slime ball Boras. If after the deal was over, he just said yeah Red Sox offered three years 90 million to Pete Alonso. Mets offered four years 120 and of course Baltimore offered five years 150. I started thinking about this yesterday as Imai had his press conference and alluded to the fact that he left money on the table to go to Houston. It would be fun to know who else was in on him.

 

Obviously, I know this is never gonna happen but would make it more fun. And let’s be honest, baseball off-season is the worst off-season of any sport not even close. 

Fun question how would you guys improve baseball off-season? What changes what you make to make it more exciting and draw more attention to the sport?

 

I just think free agency season should have a limited time window.

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

cold-stove season has been a snoozer for sure.

We've had a bunch of snoozers in recent years.   

[drewski6]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Tolle has one MLB caliber pitch right now. He's not even a capable rotation guy yet. Calling him a top 4 pitcher in the AL in '26 is a little much TBH. 

He's 6'6, filled out, with a very live arm

With those boxes checked the difference between say  and MLB caliber slider and a slider in development is on a tweak.

If Tolle isnt ready than Bailey is a sham.

Whne guys arent ready its usually a body issue. TOlle is a man in every sense of the word. The dude is like Greg Oden. He looks 35 at 20

[UtahSox]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

I just think free agency season should have a limited time window.

I think we all agree (unless you represent players union, or are an agent).

How do you shorten the window? Make it fun?

[drewski6]

When Lebron was 18 he had the body of a 28 yr old. Tolle is like that too.

[drewski6]

I can tell by Tolles mustache that he's ready.  That aint a boys mustache.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

When Lebron was 18 he had the body of a 28 yr old. Tolle is like that too.

When I was 48 I had the body of a 30 yr old. And she's still hot.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

When I was 48 I had the body of a 30 yr old. And she's still hot.

With your sense of humor, I have 0 doubt

[Bellhorn04]

9 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I can tell by Tolles mustache that he's ready.  That aint a boys mustache.

Pretty close to the infamous porn star mustache.

But it's hard to predict much off looks.  Isaiah Campbell has a pretty cool mustache and glasses thing going, but his numbers suck.

[mvp 78]

20 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

He's 6'6, filled out, with a very live arm

With those boxes checked the difference between say  and MLB caliber slider and a slider in development is on a tweak.

If Tolle isnt ready than Bailey is a sham.

Whne guys arent ready its usually a body issue. TOlle is a man in every sense of the word. The dude is like Greg Oden. He looks 35 at 20

He's only had one professional season. Can't say Bailey's a sham if Tolle isn't ready after 18 MilB starts. 

[drewski6]

18 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He's only had one professional season. Can't say Bailey's a sham if Tolle isn't ready after 18 MilB starts. 

Like I said, I think readiness is a lot about the body and Tolle's body is ready.

Its not Baileys job to develop through the minors.

With TOlle's body and arm and left-handedness and mustache and poise I honestly dont see how hes not ready

IF you think he needs to improve his secondaries, this isnt as long as a process as you think. Guys tinker with their mixes with their grips, work in new pitches every year.

It takes years to develop a body that can throw a hard slider consistently without injury.  But once you have that, the only thing stopping you is what ? Grip refinement?  That stuff is important too but it doesnt take years

He may need a little time in the beginning, Tolle, but if the body/arm/poise are there, the secondaries are coming and I think they are coming very soon

I think by June, hes our #2

[Hitch]

51 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

If Tolle isnt ready than Bailey is a sham.
 

What on earth?

[Hitch]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

If the issue is that Brez values Duran significantly more than any GM in need of an OF'er, then maybe no match up will ever come to be. If someone values him closely to Brez's value, then we could trade him for prospects. Then, we know some teams will trade a 2Bman, 3Bman or SP for the right mix of prospects. They may not be the same as the ones we get for Duran, but we should be able to find close to even value at a position of higher need.

It might be a little complex, but I can't imagine not being able to work something out, whereby we get shut out of trading Duran.

I don't know the Reds thinking, but I think they'd do Lodolo for Duran, and it's Brez who would balk. Would they do Duran + Sandoval (or Harrison) for Lodolo and Singer? The money works better for the Reds than the straight Duran>Lodolo suggestion.

I'm not sure I'd do Duran for just Lodolo, but in theory, our gain at SP2/3 would be greater than our loss at DH/4th OF'er.

I'm not sure I agree with your last sentence. 

The only thing we know for sure - Duran has been linked away with trades for months now, a year or more really. And he's still here. Somehow values are not matching up.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

I'm not sure I agree with your last sentence. 

The only thing we know for sure - Duran has been linked away with trades for months now, a year or more really. And he's still here. Somehow values are not matching up.

The wait my be tied to see who we add next. If it's a SP, we might trade Duran for an infielder.

If we add an infielder, maybe Duran gets traded for a pitcher.

I could be wrong.

I think Bregman is the Sox domino.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, drewski6 said:

When Lebron was 18 he had the body of a 28 yr old. Tolle is like that too.

So, maybe Tolle starts for the celtics.

[Old Red]

33 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, maybe Tolle starts for the celtics.

He’s no Gene Conley.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

He’s no Gene Conley.

Maybe Jim Loscutoff?

[Kimmi]

22 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Im not sure which thread it is but its buried by now.  BUt we are projected to have one of the very best pitching staffs in the league and one of the very worse offenses. TO imply that pitcher vs bat is preference is just not reality.

We have an excellent pitching staff and bad position players. FUll stop.

I am aware of the projections, and I'm aware that our pitching is projected to perform better relative to the rest of the league than our offense is.  I am actually quite excited about our pitching staff, including our unproven youngsters.

That doesn't change my opinion.  Improving the rotation by 2 WAR impacts the overall season the same as improving the offense by 2 WAR.  

 

[Kimmi]

21 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

There are many ways to build a very good or "better" team. I'd be fine with a SP2.

I doubt we add two key pieces, but I don't think it would be all that hard. We could sign a shorter term contract FA like Suarez or Bassitt and trade for the other piece like Lodolo or KMart/Donovan or even Vientos. 

We can't do KMarte & Suarez without going over the second line, but something like Suarez and then Duran for Lodolo would keep us under the second line. Rafaela for Lodolo works better on BTV and keeps our offense better.

Crochet, Gray, Lodolo, Bello, Oviedo, Sandoval

Chapman, Whitlock, Slaten, Weissert, Harrison, Crawford, Hicks, Moran

1. L Anthony CF

2. R Contreras 1B/C

3. L Duran LF

4. R Suarez 3B

5. L Abreu RF

6. R Story SS

7. L Casas 1B/DH or Narvaez C

8. R Romy DH/ L Yoshida DH

9. L Mayer 2B/ R Romy 2B

I'd really like this team, and we'd be under line 2. (No long term deals.)

I think it's very possible for the Red Sox to add both pieces.  You have made some good suggestions on how to do so.  I'm guessing Breslow is looking into all possibilities and some that we've not considered.  That's why we pay him the big bucks.

Whatever is done, I don't think the Sox will be going over the 2nd tax line.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

That doesn't change my opinion.  Improving the rotation by 2 WAR impacts the overall season the same as improving the offense by 2 WAR. 

The only issue is that pitchers are inherently riskier due to injury so the projections can be less reliable year to year. Sox were able to make it to the playoffs with injuries to Roman and Bregman. If Crochet misses half a season? Nah. 

[Kimmi]

17 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

While acknowledging that you are more likely to be correct, $125M/5 is not onerous and is a good fit.  Assuming that KC doesn't return to the IF, and that Arias replaces Story at the end of his contract, we don't really have a lot of options knocking at the infield door.  I don't expect that, even four years from now, that anyone will be complaining that Bregman's $25M is blocking anyone good.

$125M/5 is not onerous, but still a contract I'd rather avoid.  I would really love to have Bregman back.  As you said, he's a good fit.  If he can continue to be a 3-4 WAR player, then no problem.  If not, will the Red Sox eat 2 remaining years of his contract?  

[Kimmi]

8 hours ago, Hitch said:

Feels like it's coming. It'll be fine for two but then it'll be another contract weighing down the roster. 

This is what I'm thinking.  I'll welcome the player back with open arms.  The contract, not so much.

[Kimmi]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The only issue is that pitchers are inherently riskier due to injury so the projections can be less reliable year to year. Sox were able to make it to the playoffs with injuries to Roman and Bregman. If Crochet misses half a season? Nah. 

I don't disagree with pitchers being riskier.  Isn't that more reason to add another starting pitcher?  To be cliche', you can never have enough pitching.

Crochet looked strong at the end of the season, but is there any concern that he might go through a dead arm phase due to the innings increase last year?

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I don't disagree with pitchers being riskier.  Isn't that more reason to add another starting pitcher?  To be cliche', you can never have enough pitching.

Crochet looked strong at the end of the season, but is there any concern that he might go through a dead arm phase due to the innings increase last year?

There's risk, but that's why you develop overall org depth. I don't think just adding another 2 fWAR to the projected rotation fixes a loss of Crochet. However, adding another 2 fWAR to the offense is more likely to be sustainable throughout the year IMO. You kind of just have to cross your fingers and hope for the health luck we had in the WS years. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Kimmi said:

$125M/5 is not onerous, but still a contract I'd rather avoid.  I would really love to have Bregman back.  As you said, he's a good fit.  If he can continue to be a 3-4 WAR player, then no problem.  If not, will the Red Sox eat 2 remaining years of his contract?  

Is $115M/4 better to you?

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Kimmi said:

I am aware of the projections, and I'm aware that our pitching is projected to perform better relative to the rest of the league than our offense is.  I am actually quite excited about our pitching staff, including our unproven youngsters.

That doesn't change my opinion.  Improving the rotation by 2 WAR impacts the overall season the same as improving the offense by 2 WAR.  

 

While technically true, the key word is "improving." If you replace a 1.1 WAR rotation pitcher with a 2 WAR better one, how much does getting a 3.1 WAR pitcher going to cost? It might not be possible.

I look at it this way: if we have enough to trade for or sign a 2 WAR player, getting a 2 WAR pitcher might improve our 5 slot by 0.8 WAR. (Of course the guy he boots out might give us 1.2 WAR from the pen, but that is doubtful.)

Instead, we replace a 0.5 infielder with a 2.0 WAR guy and we gain 1.5 and not just 0.8 in the rotation. That's where choosing where to "improve" can make a difference. We have to look at who plays where, if we don't add, and what they project as value and try to maximize the gain accordingly.

This is surely oversimplifying a complex choice that needs to be made, and yes, maybe we fill 2 holes by opening day, but I agree: I doubt we go over the second line. We may even end up closer to the first line than the second.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

There's risk, but that's why you develop overall org depth. I don't think just adding another 2 fWAR to the projected rotation fixes a loss of Crochet. However, adding another 2 fWAR to the offense is more likely to be sustainable throughout the year IMO. You kind of just have to cross your fingers and hope for the health luck we had in the WS years. 

That's a good point, but with some health, improving a rotation slot by 2 WAR would mean adding a 3+ WAR SP'er, and all our rotation is estimated at 1 or more. Some rotation depth SP'ers are prorated to way over 1 or even 2, if given enough IP.

[JoeBrady]

9 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I still love that movie.  One of my all-time favorites.

I absolutely cannot see the FA pitching list without thinking to myself "Where's Beeks?  Where in the hell is Beeks?"  What the heck, he's a lefty RP, sign him.