Twins (Paddack) vs Red Sox (Crochet): 5/4/25, 1:35pm

[jdc69]

To blame the offense for the bullpen giving away leads IMMEDIATELY after a good performance by the starting pitcher is something I disagree with. It's not on the bullpen either, it's completely on Cora. Maybe a bullpen reliever would feel more useful if he was needed more, like because the starting pitcher starts faltering. 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

2 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

To blame the offense for the bullpen giving away leads IMMEDIATELY after a good performance by the starting pitcher is something I disagree with. It's not on the bullpen either, it's completely on Cora. Maybe a bullpen reliever would feel more useful if he was needed more, like because the starting pitcher starts faltering. 

5 innings pitched is not exactly a good performance.

[mvp 78]

🫥 

[vegasbob]

Cora lets Hamilton bat and then PH Toro , with Duran finally unable to catch up to low fastballs and fooled on a low curve.  SMH   

I could easily be wrong but I think this is the 3rd Crochet start that was blown by the BP , and the hitters eventually

[vegasbob]

4 hours ago, Brandon Glick said:

Man. It is nice to have Crochet out there in the rubber match of a series.

Brandon, you need a better intro take the next time Crochet pitches.

[FredLynn]

Looks like I misjudged this team. We have another bunch of bums this year. We might not finish last again. That’s the good news. But we certainly aren’t a playoff team. 
Losing to the Twins-a horrible team- should let everyone know exactly where we are. Probably a.500 team.

Again 

 

[Randy Red Sox]

34 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Future closer Slaten

been lit up 3 games in a row and 6.57.  seems like closer material to me alright

 

[jdc69]

He only allowed 1 run. He didn't take himself out.

[d-money]

This franchise has turned into a joke. How many games are you gonna blow? I hate Cora as a manager for this team. 

[vegasbob]

Listening to Cora post-game, I think his calmness may give the players a false sense of evrything will be ok.  

Now calmness when all around you are losing their heads is an admirable trait to keep the situation from spiraling out of control.   But  guys like Whitlock and Slaten can either concentrate and bear down with 2 strikes , 2 outs or they are not capable of doing so.     Same for the hitters.

I'm sure things get said in the privacy of the office and Cora will not rip his guys publicly but he does have some soft donuts laying around the clubhouse.

 

[Tedballgame]

Losing two out of three to the twins shows you that this Red Sox team is not ready to be a contender. You have to have reliable, bullpen guys and right now besides Chapman they don’t have any.

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, jdc69 said:

To blame the offense for the bullpen giving away leads IMMEDIATELY after a good performance by the starting pitcher is something I disagree with. It's not on the bullpen either, it's completely on Cora. Maybe a bullpen reliever would feel more useful if he was needed more, like because the starting pitcher starts faltering. 

This makes absolutely no sense.

WTF are you trying to say?

[Tedballgame]

1 hour ago, Randy Red Sox said:

been lit up 3 games in a row and 6.57.  seems like closer material to me alright

 

Slaten is a ham and egger who caught lightening in  botttle last year but he is not a high leverage guy. He and Whitlock, along with Zach Kelly, have cost the Sox at least 5 wins this year. Big difference between 18-18 and 23-15. Seasons are lost by bullpens blowing late leads.

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

5 innings pitched is not exactly a good performance.

No, but once again, without his best stuff (which even great pitchers have happen a few times a year), Crochet gave the team a good chance at the win.  It’s what good pitchers do.

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, jdc69 said:

He only allowed 1 run. He didn't take himself out.

He came out because he threw a ton of pitches and a lot of them were high stress  pitches (meaning lots of pitches with men on).

I also don’t discount the shot off his nose affecting him in the 5th (I don’t know that it did, but it may have; it certainly was his worst control inning).

[Brandon Glick]

3 hours ago, vegasbob said:

Brandon, you need a better intro take the next time Crochet pitches.

Used all my A-material at the comedy club last night. I'll get back on my game for next week,

[iortiz]

The most mediocre team in the majors at its finest, but hey keep the young talent down and call them up when they are at their 30s. In the mean time keep playing with your Hamiltons. 

[jdc69]

2 hours ago, illinoisredsox said:

This makes absolutely no sense.

WTF are you trying to say?

I'm saying Cora doesn't allow his starting pitchers, who often are doing well, to stay in the game, so the bullpen is coming into a game to replace someone that is already doing well. So I'm saying it's not a good mindset to have for a bullpen pitcher.

[Jasonbay44]

3 hours ago, jdc69 said:

I'm saying Cora doesn't allow his starting pitchers, who often are doing well, to stay in the game, so the bullpen is coming into a game to replace someone that is already doing well. So I'm saying it's not a good mindset to have for a bullpen pitcher.

Pulling Crochet was the move today. He didn’t have his best stuff and got hit by a hard grounder in the nose. He battled and gave 5 innings: the bullpen just sucked 

[Hugh2]

5 hours ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Pulling Crochet was the move today. He didn’t have his best stuff and got hit by a hard grounder in the nose. He battled and gave 5 innings: the bullpen just sucked 

Not only that but we literally have decades of information showing pitchers tend to drastically decline the third time through the order, and as a matter of fact some of the losses we've had involved the starter giving up runs their 3rd time through. 

We are playing bad baseball right now, a lot seems to go wrong and there's usually plenty of blame pie to go around to get hung up on one piece. 

There are certainly things this team NEEDS to do better, but to some extent it does feel like bad luck.  This team could catch a cold before they could catch a break right now;. 

[Bellhorn04]

If Whitlock and Slaten both keep crapping the bed like this,  the Sox are just dead meat. 

Looks like Brez should have done more for the pen.

[moonslav59]

It looks bad, now, but there is a lot of season left, and maybe this trade deadline, we will actually do something helpful.

[FredLynn]

55 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

If Whitlock and Slaten both keep crapping the bed like this,  the Sox are just dead meat. 

Looks like Brez should have done more for the pen.

Correct. The team as currently constructed is probably an 81 win club. The weak link is obvious : our bullpen sucks. This isn’t a playoff team. 
Again.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

8 hours ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Pulling Crochet was the move today. He didn’t have his best stuff and got hit by a hard grounder in the nose. He battled and gave 5 innings: the bullpen just sucked 

I read that his velocity was down almost 2 mph.

Is there reason to be concerned?

[FredLynn]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It looks bad, now, but there is a lot of season left, and maybe this trade deadline, we will actually do something helpful.

Are we going “full throttle” again this year?

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Correct. The team as currently constructed is probably an 81 win club. The weak link is obvious : our bullpen sucks. This isn’t a playoff team. 
Again.

I'm more optimistic than many, here, about this roster. I'm hoping the pen gets better when we start moving SP'ers into it, as others return to the rotation (Buehler, Fitts, Crawford and possibly Sandoval late in the season.)

RP'ers are the most often players traded at the deadline and even before. We HAVE TO DO BETTER THAN Luis Garcia and Lucas Sims.

Maybe Hendriks finds the groove, but counting on it seems like homerism. Our best and most realistic chances are that Slaten and Whitlock get over this blip, and Chapman has one big season left in him. Guys like Bernardino, Weissert, Guerrero,  Wilson, Kelly, Newcomb and even maybe Mata, I Campbell or someone else in AAA can step up and have one of those "up seasons" mediocre RP'ers often have every 2-3 years. We may need 2-3 to have "that season."

I think our offense will be fine.

I think our D is better than they have looked, recently.

Our rotation has many question marks, but we have some solid arms who just need health on their side. Since we have 7-9 SP'ers, I'm staying optimistic we can keep 5 going at any given time.

Yes, it is the pen. That is the area I stressed all winter long, well, after we addressed the rotation with Crochet and Buehler.

I'm still thinking 86-90 wins, but that is based on speculation not on what we have seen, so far. I'm not one to believe a player or team stays constant all year long and repeats the first 20% of the season over the next 80%. (This also leaves the door open for us to be even worse.)

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Are we going “full throttle” again this year?

You have to admit, this past offseason was closer to "full throttle" than past seasons, and by a lot.

[Bellhorn04]

31 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It looks bad, now, but there is a lot of season left, and maybe this trade deadline, we will actually do something helpful.

July 31 is a long wait to do something about the bullpen.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

52 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

July 31 is a long wait to do something about the bullpen.

Nick Burdi's Woo stats are better than those of Guerrero, Wink, Campbell, Adames, Mills, Fulmer, Mata, Criswell, Kelly, Dobbins, Giolito, Bello and Priester.

Burdi: G 11, IP 14.2, K 22, WHIP 0.82, ERA 0.61.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

You have to admit, this past offseason was closer to "full throttle" than past seasons, and by a lot.

I admit that. They made some significant additions. But it seems to me that they failed to address the bullpen adequately. Maybe the plan is to rebuild in 2-3 years rather than all at once. But what I am seeing so far is that as currently constructed we are not a playoff contender.