Article: A Plea For The Red Sox To Sign Juan Soto

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

What makes you think that the meeting, if it happens, isn't just for show? 

It could be.

It could be just to drive up the price for the ultimate signing team.

It does suggest that if a price is given, and we say yes, it would be a done deal.

If we say no, then we know how high JH would not go. We can judge on him being cheap or not.

The Plan B would be the next point to haggle over.

[mvp 78]

19 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

 

well....if it was a f***ing child, then yeah, you should be arrested.

Thank you everyone. This is your friendly reminder to keep this place politics free and let's move on to anything else.  

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It could be.

It could be just to drive up the price for the ultimate signing team.

It does suggest that if a price is given, and we say yes, it would be a done deal.

If we say no, then we know how high JH would not go. We can judge on him being cheap or not.

The Plan B would be the next point to haggle over.

My guess is that said meeting is to relay to Borass and Soto a final offer, not to listen to what it would take to get to "yes". With Hernandez rumored to returning to LA the number of good bats out there to bolster the offense is dwindling. As I said, I would prefer they invest in better pitching.

BTW, I had an orange tree that turned into a pomelo tree. Apparently the root stock for the tree was pomelo and eventually it just took over. I didn't realize that you have to stay on top of it and cut down the pomelo shoots as they appear.

[notin]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Not until he's in his late 30's at least. You can put him in LF and he'd be fine. Terrible range. Plus arm (90th percentile arm value). He's better than Manny was. 

Such a high bar…

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

My guess is that said meeting is to relay to Borass and Soto a final offer, not to listen to what it would take to get to "yes". With Hernandez rumored to returning to LA the number of good bats out there to bolster the offense is dwindling. As I said, I would prefer they invest in better pitching.

 

It could be both. The Sox ask for the "offer it will take," and if they are not at a yes, they will leave the meeting with their final offer presented and maybe an expiration date. (That may not matter, if Soto is close to a decision, as is.)

It sounds like a way to say to Soto, "If you want to play for Boston, what will you take, even if it may be less than the Mets' offer."

We should already know what our highest point is. We should be able to say yes or no, if they give an actual number. If BorA$$ says, we'll get back to you with a number, of we won't bargain like this, then we make our highest offer and walk away.

[Nick]

Will any of this matter if the Mets owner is willing to say "we'll top any offer by $50M?"

Perhaps Soto will figure out that $50M over 14 years isn't a big deal if he really wants to play elsewhere.

What I hope is

No to Dodgers and the Yankees, they already have plethora of stars.

No to the Blue Jays. Who wants to play in Hockey country?

No to the Mets. They will always be second fiddle to the Yankees, soon or later. 

 

 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Nick said:

Will any of this matter if the Mets owner is willing to say "we'll top any offer by $50M?"

Perhaps Soto will figure out that $50M over 14 years isn't a big deal if he really wants to play elsewhere.

What I hope is

No to Dodgers and the Yankees, they already have plethora of stars.

No to the Blue Jays. Who wants to play in Hockey country?

No to the Mets. They will always be second fiddle to the Yankees, soon or later. 

And the Mets idea may be to tack on an extra year at 50M, which Soto may just rather retire at that point. 

[drewski6]

44 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It could be both. The Sox ask for the "offer it will take," and if they are not at a yes, they will leave the meeting with their final offer presented and maybe an expiration date. (That may not matter, if Soto is close to a decision, as is.)

It sounds like a way to say to Soto, "If you want to play for Boston, what will you take, even if it may be less than the Mets' offer."

We should already know what our highest point is. We should be able to say yes or no, if they give an actual number. If BorA$$ says, we'll get back to you with a number, of we won't bargain like this, then we make our highest offer and walk away.

They will certainly ask "what will it take to get this done", they may not get an answer from Sotos camp, who could respond "make your best and final offer" (keeping teams in the dark is a well established agent play).

They may also say a number that we are or are not willing to meet.  Most likely, Sotos camp will give a noncomittal answer (we think you have a great shot at 675, but we are not willing to sign today, will you offer 675?)

[drewski6]

The mets rumored "exceed any deal by 50m" may be a scare tactic or any other kind of tactic. They also may not get the chance.  All the time, in deals, someone says "get back to me before you finalize" and the other party doesnt.

When we sold our house, we had a few people like this.  "I want to be the last person you call before you accept an offer" and we rolled our eyes and considered them non-serious.

[FredLynn]

8 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The mets rumored "exceed any deal by 50m" may be a scare tactic or any other kind of tactic. They also may not get the chance.  All the time, in deals, someone says "get back to me before you finalize" and the other party doesnt.

When we sold our house, we had a few people like this.  "I want to be the last person you call before you accept an offer" and we rolled our eyes and considered them non-serious.

These numbers that are getting bandied about are just astronomical. I mean, how much money does one person (or family) really need? Will $675M make you more happy than $550M? At some point one would think that factors other than money will decide because the money is more than enough for many lifetimes. Unfortunately, I don't think that Boston is a desirable location for baseball players any more. They want money, but they also want to win. And the tax structure in MA certainly isn't the best, to say the obvious.

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

These numbers that are getting bandied about are just astronomical. I mean, how much money does one person (or family) really need? Will $675M make you more happy than $550M? At some point one would think that factors other than money will decide because the money is more than enough for many lifetimes. Unfortunately, I don't think that Boston is a desirable location for baseball players any more. They want money, but they also want to win. And the tax structure in MA certainly isn't the best, to say the obvious.

This argument has been made for decades. "Players are making enough. How much is too much? Boston isn't a desirable location because it's a smaller media market and the weather stinks? Players don't want to come here because the fans are mean." At some point, these guys just want "the biggest contract" as a source of pride rather than necessity. We already know the financials are absurd, but that's what the market is willing to pay right now. Boston has lured high priced FA's in the past. Why not now? 

[drewski6]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

This argument has been made for decades. "Players are making enough. How much is too much? Boston isn't a desirable location because it's a smaller media market and the weather stinks? Players don't want to come here because the fans are mean." At some point, these guys just want "the biggest contract" as a source of pride rather than necessity. We already know the financials are absurd, but that's what the market is willing to pay right now. Boston has lured high priced FA's in the past. Why not now? 

Agreed.  I think, confidently, he will consider the difference between a 550m$ contract and a 650m$ one. And it will be a huge factor.

[Hugh2]

I just don't know why Boras would have such a meeting, or at the very least without having one with another team as well and telling them to match. 

Perhaps, if the price is right would him and Soto be willing to sign something then and there? if so will Henry hand out that kind of money. 

[Bellhorn04]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

At some point, these guys just want "the biggest contract" as a source of pride rather than necessity.

Ego is definitely a big factor.  Another may be that players have other people telling them to go for the max-their agents, the players' union, family and friends. 

[drewski6]

19 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I just don't know why Boras would have such a meeting, or at the very least without having one with another team as well and telling them to match. 

Perhaps, if the price is right would him and Soto be willing to sign something then and there? if so will Henry hand out that kind of money. 

Likely, no. Thats what the RS want, to have a meeting and be told a number that will get it done then and there.

Boras will likely have the meeting, but remain non-committal and not sign then and there.  But he may leave with a higher offer, and one he can shop around with, which is why he would take the meeting.

Also, if its down to 3 teams and we are in it, its his job to continue conversations with all remaining bidders.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

Will any of this matter if the Mets owner is willing to say "we'll top any offer by $50M?"

Perhaps Soto will figure out that $50M over 14 years isn't a big deal if he really wants to play elsewhere.

What I hope is

No to Dodgers and the Yankees, they already have plethora of stars.

No to the Blue Jays. Who wants to play in Hockey country?

No to the Mets. They will always be second fiddle to the Yankees, soon or later. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the taxes are higher in NY, and I'm certain the cost of living is higher. Maybe it doesn't total $50M over 13-15 years, but it might come close enough to tip the decision in our way.

The Dominican connection is an interesting area of conversation. It's kind of funny that Pedro ended up a Met. Manny wanted out of Boston early in his contract, then all but demanded a trade, later on. Papi is the only one of the big 3 to stay.

[notin]

46 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

This argument has been made for decades. "Players are making enough. How much is too much? Boston isn't a desirable location because it's a smaller media market and the weather stinks? Players don't want to come here because the fans are mean." At some point, these guys just want "the biggest contract" as a source of pride rather than necessity. We already know the financials are absurd, but that's what the market is willing to pay right now. Boston has lured high priced FA's in the past. Why not now? 

A lot of it is because the union wants players to take the most money possible so as to drive up everyone’s salaries…

[Hitch]

2 hours ago, FredLynn said:

What makes you think that the meeting, if it happens, isn't just for show? 

You'd have to be astonishingly cynical to think that step would be for show. They've already made enough fuss for it to be about show. And Boras could leek that Boston didn't match the highest offer or balked at the asking price. What would be the good of that?

[notin]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm pretty sure the taxes are higher in NY, and I'm certain the cost of living is higher. Maybe it doesn't total $50M over 13-15 years, but it might come close enough to tip the decision in our way.

The Dominican connection is an interesting area of conversation. It's kind of funny that Pedro ended up a Met. Manny wanted out of Boston early in his contract, then all but demanded a trade, later on. Papi is the only one of the big 3 to stay.

Pedro ended his career as a Phillie.  But he didn’t get into Cooperstown because of his achievements in his return to the NL East.

 

It’s like Greg Maddux.  You think of him as a Brave, and maybe as a Cub.  No one associates him with the Padres or Dodgers…

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm pretty sure the taxes are higher in NY, and I'm certain the cost of living is higher. Maybe it doesn't total $50M over 13-15 years, but it might come close enough to tip the decision in our way.

The Dominican connection is an interesting area of conversation. It's kind of funny that Pedro ended up a Met. Manny wanted out of Boston early in his contract, then all but demanded a trade, later on. Papi is the only one of the big 3 to stay.

Pedro left because the Sox didn't want to re-sign him. Pedro wanted to stay. 

Manny wanted out because he was miserable. I will not get into the inuendo of the situation. 

[Hitch]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Not until he's in his late 30's at least. You can put him in LF and he'd be fine. Terrible range. Plus arm (90th percentile arm value). He's better than Manny was. 

Yup. He's perfectly serviceable out there. 

[Nick]

This winter is much more interesting than last winter......it appears Sox have decided "it's go time, NOW."

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Pedro left because the Sox didn't want to re-sign him. Pedro wanted to stay. 

Manny wanted out because he was miserable. I will not get into the inuendo of the situation. 

Pedro, "You should play for the team that no longer wanted me as I aged."

Manny, "You should go play for the team I disliked, almost from day 1."

Papi has a much different story.

I'm not saying Pedro has any ill will against the Sox, but I just found it interesting he went to pitch for the Mets, and the Soto deal may be down to BOS v NYM.

Just a conversational point. Feel free to not think it's worth talking about.

[FredLynn]

2 hours ago, Hitch said:

You'd have to be astonishingly cynical to think that step would be for show. They've already made enough fuss for it to be about show. And Boras could leek that Boston didn't match the highest offer or balked at the asking price. What would be the good of that?

I am astonishingly cynical. But I have a little history to back me up. Last year management claimed they were going “full throttle “ to field a relevant team. And when was the last time we even sniffed the playoffs? At some point you have to look at what management DOES rather than the side shows and cheap talk. Are we going to see a competitive team this year?

I’ll believe it when I see it.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I’ll believe it when I see it.

I feel the same way, but I have to say, I can't help myself on the hope train.

My expectation train was derailed.

 

[Thunder]

I've always been a head in the clouds optimist, and always will be. It's fun! Gives you something to look forward to in life when everything else around you may be falling apart. Last season for me was so much fun to be a part of, at least until August...

 

I'm worried we're getting played as well, but by Soto and Boras, not by Henry and Breslow. But, with that being said, I will be a little irritated if we don't get Soto and Breslow proceeds to do nothing major as part of the backup plan we've been hearing so much about

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

34 minutes ago, Thunder said:

I've always been a head in the clouds optimist, and always will be. It's fun! Gives you something to look forward to in life when everything else around you may be falling apart. Last season for me was so much fun to be a part of, at least until August...

 

I'm worried we're getting played as well, but by Soto and Boras, not by Henry and Breslow. But, with that being said, I will be a little irritated if we don't get Soto and Breslow proceeds to do nothing major as part of the backup plan we've been hearing so much about

For me this offseason, the back-up plan has always been to be up front: back up the Brinks truck at the winter meetings and empty it out to make room for a new starting rotation and bullpen.

[Hitch]

Heyman reporting we're at $700m.

 

If that's true and doesn't get it done just walk away and spend your money elsewhere. It already starting to feel way too much. 

[FredLynn]

26 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Heyman reporting we're at $700m.

 

If that's true and doesn't get it done just walk away and spend your money elsewhere. It already starting to feel way too much. 

Agreed. We still need some major improvements but you can’t handcuff yourself for a decade by paying one guy such a huge amount of your budget. I’d rather pay a couple of very good SPs a lot of money than one great hitter.

[moonslav59]

I'd be just as happy with Burnes and Fried vs Soto. The AAV would be higher, but the risk is spread over two guys and for about half the years, although it could be 7 yrs + 7 yrs to 14 yrs.

I seriously doubt we can or will ever be able to score the two best SP'ers in one winter, especially when the drop off to the next tier seems pretty big.

It might be hard for us to just get this:

Burnes or Fried

Scott

Bregman, Adames or Teoscar

Carson Kelly or Elias Diaz (C on 1 year deal)