Chris Sale traded to Braves

[Old Red]

It's useless if the worst case scenario of JH the Penny Pincher and Werner the Liar comes to fruition.

 

Do you really think that JH is wringing his hands with glee with saving $10M on Sale even though he’s still paying him $17M not to play for them, and patting Bres on the back, and saying a job well done?

[Bellhorn04]

Do you really think that JH is wringing his hands with glee with saving $10M on Sale even though he’s still paying him $17M not to play for them, and patting Bres on the back, and saying a job well done?

 

JH was apparently fine subsidizing Price's salary to pitch elsewhere for 3 years, so why not Sale for 1 year?

[Old Red]

JH was apparently fine subsidizing Price's salary to pitch elsewhere for 3 years, so why not Sale for 1 year?

 

Yea he must have ok’d it, but to me it was just to big a payment.

[Bellhorn04]

Yea he must have ok’d it, but to me it was just to big a payment.

 

Well, let's just assume that if Breslow insisted on making it less the Braves walk away and the deal is dead.

[Old Red]

It's useless if the worst case scenario of JH the Penny Pincher and Werner the Liar comes to fruition.

 

Well we’ll find out soon enough if that $10M helps to pay for Snell, or Monty. I don’t think the AAV will be the problem, but for how many years.

[moonslav59]

It's useless if the worst case scenario of JH the Penny Pincher and Werner the Liar comes to fruition.

 

Are you assuming we spend to within $5-6M of the tax line again?

 

I’m not.

 

I think we can and should. Hell, I think we can and should spend up to $1M below the second line, but we can never count on JH and expect a healthy winter spending budget.

[Old Red]

Well, let's just assume that if Breslow insisted on making it less the Braves walk away and the deal is dead.

 

Then go look for another one. It’s hard to believe that the Braves are the only team out there who would have been interested in Sale. It would have had to be a good team like the Braves, which would have narrowed the field though.

[Bellhorn04]

Are you assuming we spend to within $5-6M of the tax line again?

 

I’m not.

 

I think we can and should. Hell, I think we can and should spend up to $1M below the second line, but we can never count on JH and expect a healthy winter spending budget.

 

I'm not assuming anything with this ownership any more.

 

I just think we're seeing some signs of a plan unfolding and that has given me some small tingles of optimism about Breslow.

[Bellhorn04]

Then go look for another one.

 

A lot of the rumblings about Bloom were that he was difficult to deal with and asked for too much, which led to deals falling through.

 

We can't have it both ways.

[moonslav59]

I'm not assuming anything with this ownership any more.

 

I just think we're seeing some signs of a plan unfolding and that has given me some small tingles of optimism about Breslow.

 

I have not lost hope, but the Sale-Gio flip looks more sideways to me than others. I do see it as a gain, but we still have two major holes in the rotation and less and less options to fill them.

 

I was fine with Sale as our 4/5 with Pivetta or Crawford on standby.

[Bellhorn04]

I have not lost hope, but the Sale-Gio flip looks more sideways to me than others. I do see it as a gain, but we still have two major holes in the rotation and less and less options to fill them.

 

Yeah but they got a second baseman in the midst of that flip...

[moonslav59]

A lot of the rumblings about Bloom were that he was difficult to deal with and asked for too much, which led to deals falling through.

 

We can't have it both ways.

 

Agreed.

 

It’s easy to say a GM coulda/shoulda gotten more, but it’s likely there we not many teams wanting to pay Sale $10M and give up their #3 prospect to do it, or pay $17-27M and give nothing back.

 

Like the Betts trade. I assume the GM felt it was the best out there at the time.

[moonslav59]

Yeah but they got a second baseman in the midst of that flip...

 

Yes, maybe, and I agreed with this before.

 

So far, we have not filled the 1-2 slots in the rotation and have just improved the 3/4 slot, on paper.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, maybe, and I agreed with this before.

 

So far, we have not filled the 1-2 slots in the rotation and have just improved the 3/4 slot, on paper.

 

That's indisputable.

[Old Red]

A lot of the rumblings about Bloom were that he was difficult to deal with and asked for too much, which led to deals falling through.

 

We can't have it both ways.

 

I get all that, and yes I’m hung up on that $17M. I think it’s a win, win for the Braves though. They get Sale for $10M, and if he’s injured no big deal, but if he stays healthy on that ball club it’s a big win plus the Braves didn’t really give up anyone who was in their plans.

[moonslav59]

That's indisputable.

 

Well, our two major holes are still not filled, so my level of optimism is unchanged from a few days ago.

 

I’m glad we found a 2Bman, and improved a roster slot on paper, so some action looks better than none, I guess.

[Randy Red Sox]

Well, our two major holes are still not filled, so my level of optimism is unchanged from a few days ago.

 

I’m glad we found a 2Bman, and improved a roster slot on paper, so some action looks better than none, I guess.

 

A still unproven prospect slated to be our everyday 2B. I guess that is it for the immortal Nick Yorke draft. I have been saying since the day he was drafted what a horrible pick that was.

[oldtimer]

With the Red Sox sending $17 million to the Braves, for the next six seasons the Sox effectively will be paying nearly $3 million annually over Grissom's actual salary ... if Grissom sticks in the majors.

 

Did you think Sale was worth the $27 mil he was getting? We got Grissham and we have $10 million we wouldn't have had with Sale.

[Randy Red Sox]

Did you think Sale was worth the $27 mil he was getting? We got Grissham and we have $10 million we wouldn't have had with Sale.

 

 

yeah 10 million/yr for Henry to pocket

[moonslav59]

A still unproven prospect slated to be our everyday 2B. I guess that is it for the immortal Nick Yorke draft. I have been saying since the day he was drafted what a horrible pick that was.

 

Grissom is no longer a prospect, IMO.

 

ENOUGH about the Yorke draft. If it ends up being a bust, add it to half the other first picks we’ve had and congrats on getting this one right.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yeah but they got a second baseman in the midst of that flip...

 

... arguably, in his first offseason, Breslow has already added a talent better than any young position player acquired by his predecessor...

 

(at least in character, based on words from the Atlanta GM, who praised Grissom on the way out... as opposed to say, Verdugo, who for some reason doesn't want to still be friends with guys like Papelbon).

[moonslav59]

... arguably, in his first offseason, Breslow has already added a talent better than any young position player acquired by his predecessor...

 

(at least in character, based on words from the Atlanta GM, who praised Grissom on the way out... as opposed to say, Verdugo, who for some reason doesn't want to still be friends with guys like Papelbon).

 

Wong

Maybe Abreu

Longshot EValdez, Rosier, DHam…

[Nick]

Interesting that MassLive article mentioned we had a hard cap of $225M last year. (I think that was the number).

 

So despite what is being said publicly, there's no freakin' way we're going to blow past the first tax limit. (Sorry Moon)

 

I do keep thinking back to what Bloom said when we traded Betts. He said something to the effect we did not have the pieces and won't have it for sometime around Betts to contend even if we signed him. I would have thought betting on a position player was much safer than a pitcher. Oh well.

 

My point being I wonder if the ownership still feels the same way. That there's not one signing that's going to put us over the top at this point.

 

So what do we do? Sox continues to assemble young talent, especially on the positional side and also wait on few more youngsters to develop. Buy time. Our window is pretty large at this point on positional side and it starts with having Devers for next 10 years.

 

Breslow continues to emphasize the importance of acquiring starting pitching but quickly adds we have 'several' pitchers contending for the starting role and pretty much everyone other than short relievers are on his list.

 

He hasn't given up on Houck and Whitlock and Winckowski's name keeps popping up when the discussion of starters pop up.

 

I'm glad we signed Giolito but many of you have mentioned that we don't have any upside on that contract other than 2024 season. If he pitches well, we may still not get into the playoffs and he bolts for bigger contract opportunity.

 

Unless I see a longer term deal on a starting pitcher, I'm thinking we're punting to 2025.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Nick

[Duran Is The Man]

Well, our two major holes are still not filled, so my level of optimism is unchanged from a few days ago.

 

I’m glad we found a 2Bman, and improved a roster slot on paper, so some action looks better than none, I guess.

 

IF we use the surplus Sale $$ to use on starting pitching, I’m ok with this. Otherwise, would it not have been better to wait and see how Sale does this year and then possibly get something for him at the trade deadline? Who knows, maybe he turns it around and has a great season. Which is no different than hoping Kluber or Paxton or some of this other crap the FO signs does the same v

[moonslav59]

Interesting that MassLive article mentioned we had a hard cap of $225M last year. (I think that was the number).

 

So despite what is being said publicly, there's no freakin' way we're going to blow past the first tax limit. (Sorry Moon)

 

I do keep thinking back to what Bloom said when we traded Betts. He said something to the effect we did not have the pieces and won't have it for sometime around Betts to contend even if we signed him. I would have thought betting on a position player was much safer than a pitcher. Oh well.

 

My point being I wonder if the ownership still feels the same way. That there's not one signing that's going to put us over the top at this point.

 

So what do we do? Sox continues to assemble young talent, especially on the positional side and also wait on few more youngsters to develop. Buy time. Our window is pretty large at this point on positional side and it starts with having Devers for next 10 years.

 

Breslow continues to emphasize the importance of acquiring starting pitching but quickly adds we have 'several' pitchers contending for the starting role and pretty much everyone other than short relievers are on his list.

 

He hasn't given up on Houck and Whitlock and Winckowski's name keeps popping up when the discussion of starters pop up.

 

I'm glad we signed Giolito but many of you have mentioned that we don't have any upside on that contract other than 2024 season. If he pitches well, we may still not get into the playoffs and he bolts for bigger contract opportunity.

 

Unless I see a longer term deal on a starting pitcher, I'm thinking we're punting to 2025.

 

I never said we would go over the first line. I said we “could and should.”

 

I’m expecting we won’t. If I had to predict, I’d guess we end up $5-15M under the first tax line.

 

It would not shock me, if we end up $16-20M under.

 

I have no expectations on the budget.

[moonslav59]

IF we use the surplus Sale $$ to use on starting pitching, I’m ok with this. Otherwise, would it not have been better to wait and see how Sale does this year and then possibly get something for him at the trade deadline? Who knows, maybe he turns it around and has a great season. Which is no different than hoping Kluber or Paxton or some of this other crap the FO signs does the same v

 

Honestly, I feel better about Sale in 2024 than I did about Kluber before ‘23, Wacha or Hill in ‘22 or Richards/Perez in ‘21.

 

The $10M “saved” is equal to what we paid Kluber and Richards and almost as much as Wacha+Hill.

[notin]

Honestly, I feel better about Sale in 2024 than I did about Kluber before ‘23, Wacha or Hill in ‘22 or Richards/Perez in ‘21.

 

The $10M “saved” is equal to what we paid Kluber and Richards and almost as much as Wacha+Hill.

 

Now if the Sox use that $10mill on Paxton.

 

Paxton (1.0 fWAR) was less effective than Sale (2.1 fWAR), but can Grissom improve on the (-0.9) fWAR the Sox got from 2b?

 

And if they can just get one more SP for Duran…

[Randy Red Sox]

IF we use the surplus Sale $$ to use on starting pitching, I’m ok with this. Otherwise, would it not have been better to wait and see how Sale does this year and then possibly get something for him at the trade deadline? Who knows, maybe he turns it around and has a great season. Which is no different than hoping Kluber or Paxton or some of this other crap the FO signs does the same v

 

the Sale trade was about shedding salary while adding a 2B they can control for 6 years was the reason for this trade. MLBTR is suggesting the Sox are also looking to shed even more payroll perhaps by dealing either Janssen or Martin or both and that they really would like to get out from under the Story deal. This along with all the salary saved by letting Turner, Duvall, and the savings from the Verdugo/Juicer exchange and the project 4.7 million Urias was projected to earn in arbitration.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Randy Red Sox

[moonslav59]

Now if the Sox use that $10mill on Paxton.

 

Paxton (1.0 fWAR) was less effective than Sale (2.1 fWAR), but can Grissom improve on the (-0.9) fWAR the Sox got from 2b?

 

And if they can just get one more SP for Duran…

 

I agree.

 

Or, sign Monty or Snell instead of Stroman.

 

Or, sign Stroman and Imanaga, instead of Stroman and Paxton.

[moonslav59]

the Sale trade was about shedding salary while adding a 2B they can control for 6 years was the reason for this trade. MLBTR is suggesting the Sox are also looking to shed even more payroll bperhaps by dealing either Janssen or Martin or both and tht they really like to get out from under the Story deal.

 

It would not shock me to see us gear up for 2026.