Chris Sale traded to Braves

[moonslav59]

fangraphs had Grissom ranked 3rd in the ATL system in 2022.

 

1. Harris 50

2. Strider 45+

3. Grissom 45

I .

[Oscars]

This line from John Tomase sums it up for me.

“But in removing Sale, he sends the message that waiting around for low-probability best-case scenarios is no way to run a team”.

[moonslav59]

This line from John Tomase sums it up for me.

“But in removing Sale, he sends the message that waiting around for low-probability best-case scenarios is no way to run a team”.

 

He did start more games than Paxton and was 3 away from being second to Bello, this year.

[Hitch]

Bitch about frail Sale while he’s here. Bitch about the return not being great enough when he’s dealt. Sunrise. Sunset.

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

I'm rather surprised by the negative reaction to.this trade. We've got an exciting 2nd baseman at last. Removed another 10m off the bill to spend elsewhere.

 

We're clearly going to be sending a middle infield prospect or 2 away for pitching. If they get Teoscar, likely packaged with one of outfield prospects for a very exciting young pitcher.

 

It's like people are judging the entire coming season on what we have now. Clearly more moves are coming.

 

I think the last few years of nibbling around the edges have scarred people. Breslow isn't Bloom. There's other big moves coming.

[cp176]

Who has said wait for Yorke?

 

I don’t like the deal either.

 

I’d have liked signing Sale for $10M/1. I get the injury issues and the Grisham promise but adding Giolito and then paying Sale $17M to play in ATL does not look good, too me.

 

Yes, Giolito takes the ball every 5 days, and that has real value, but I don’t see these two moves as an improvement.

 

I don't remember who here have been the Yorke supporters but there have been a number of folks who have said that it was too early to give up on him. And honestly moon, I don't care who they are. heck - I like Yorke but if you are bringing in a 23 year old prospect to likely play the position he seemed destined for, I think that it says something about his future here or the lack there of. In general, I guess I just think that this organization seems screwed up and I wouldn't pay a penny to watch them as they are currently constructed. The only way to bring prices for products down is to not purchase them.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

I’d have liked signing Sale for $10M/1. I get the injury issues and the Grisham promise but adding Giolito and then paying Sale $17M to play in ATL does not look good, too me.

 

Yes, Giolito takes the ball every 5 days, and that has real value, but I don’t see these two moves as an improvement.

 

True, there's little improvement on the pitching staff so far. As much as some posters like Giolito's chances to rebound, there's no guarantee he won't be Kluber. He is a more sure thing than Sale to take the ball every five days (even if he keeps losing them over the Monster).

 

But at least there is young talent added to the roster in Grissom.

 

The main point suddenly about the offseason is that Breslow looks intent to move on from the disastrous Bloom Era -- ridding the Red Sox of disruptive issues symbolized by Verdugo and Sale.

 

Turn the page, a fresh slate, go on the wagon, start exercising, happy new year.

[Old Red]

I don’t mind at all, because it’s not like if they kept the $17mill, they would be spending it on someone else.

 

Why wouldn’t they be spending the $17M on someone else, or as I would look at it $27M.🙈

[Hugh2]

Sox got rid of Sale, who has managed to pitch a year worth of games over the last 4!!!!! He’s older, can’t stay healthy. The odds that he’s going to turn into a shinning example of durability and longevity is slim.

 

You save a little bit of money, but more importantly you paid it down a little bit to up the return. Which I agree with, unless getting under the cap was paramount, like it should have been at the deadline two years ago, I’m down to throw in money to up any return.

 

You got 6 years of control of a young, 22 year old, who has done nothing but hit. He was rushed to the majors before he was a finished product and still hit, career .320 in the minors. Sox probably hope they can coach him up to a second baseman.

 

They also have a question mark out of the rotation and the spot to add another starter.

 

Anyone who doesn’t like this trade is simply cynical. One can not blame them after the last 4 years but that’s the truth.

[Hugh2]

fangraphs had Grissom ranked 3rd in the ATL system in 2022.

 

1. Harris 50

2. Strider 45+

3. Grissom 45

I .

 

Before he lost his prospect eligibility mlb had him at 79. Kids was talented enough to make it to the show at 21, but he was rushed. Sox obviously believe he can play second. If Mayer comes up strong, maybe you can trying moving him to 3B in a few years.

[Hitch]

I don't remember who here have been the Yorke supporters but there have been a number of folks who have said that it was too early to give up on him. And honestly moon, I don't care who they are. heck - I like Yorke but if you are bringing in a 23 year old prospect to likely play the position he seemed destined for, I think that it says something about his future here or the lack there of. In general, I guess I just think that this organization seems screwed up and I wouldn't pay a penny to watch them as they are currently constructed. The only way to bring prices for products down is to not purchase them.

 

But equally, Yorke is still at least a season away maybe two. We need a 2nd baseman now. We've picked up a guy that is more than likely quite a bit better than Yorke (with the same years of control), which then allows us to trade Yorke for the controllable starting pitching that we badly need.

 

Doesn't that make any sense to you?

 

I get why you're disillusioned for what it's worth. These past few years have tested even the most ardent fan's patience, but this move is indicative of having someone with some courage and decisiveness in charge at last.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think the Sox got good value here, but it send the wrong message to your team. The Sox were two starters away from being contenders last year. They added one and subtracted one. So they’re back at a net of zero. Will have to see how the rest of the offseason goes

[Old Red]

Sox got rid of Sale, who has managed to pitch a year worth of games over the last 4!!!!! He’s older, can’t stay healthy. The odds that he’s going to turn into a shinning example of durability and longevity is slim.

 

You save a little bit of money, but more importantly you paid it down a little bit to up the return. Which I agree with, unless getting under the cap was paramount, like it should have been at the deadline two years ago, I’m down to throw in money to up any return.

 

You got 6 years of control of a young, 22 year old, who has done nothing but hit. He was rushed to the majors before he was a finished product and still hit, career .320 in the minors. Sox probably hope they can coach him up to a second baseman.

 

They also have a question mark out of the rotation and the spot to add another starter.

 

Anyone who doesn’t like this trade is simply cynical. One can not blame them after the last 4 years but that’s the truth.

This is all well, and good, but it still doesn’t mean the Red Sox should have paid Atlanta $17M for Sale to go, and pitch for them.

[notin]

This is all well, and good, but it still doesn’t mean the Red Sox should have paid Atlanta $17M for Sale to go, and pitch for them.

 

Why not?

[Old Red]

Why not?

 

No! It’s why. They paid JT not to play for them anymore.

[Hugh2]

But equally, Yorke is still at least a season away maybe two. We need a 2nd baseman now. We've picked up a guy that is more than likely quite a bit better than Yorke (with the same years of control), which then allows us to trade Yorke for the controllable starting pitching that we badly need.

 

Doesn't that make any sense to you?

 

I get why you're disillusioned for what it's worth. These past few years have tested even the most ardent fan's patience, but this move is indicative of having someone with some courage and decisiveness in charge at last.

 

It’s like, If they think Yorke is a bust, this is a good trade to add your second baseman.

 

If you don’t think he’s a bust you can always trade him. Aren’t people always talking about trades to improve the roster around here.

 

It does seem like some people are just going to be unhappy no matter what happens.

[Hugh2]

This is all well, and good, but it still doesn’t mean the Red Sox should have paid Atlanta $17M for Sale to go, and pitch for them.

 

Why not? Teams literally kick in money ALL the time to up the return. It’s literally not your money and what it is is a sunk cost. Would you rather the money be spent on Sale to pitch here, have one less rotation spot open to improve AND not have a second baseman?

 

Sox could trade Jansen tomorrow. If eating his salary gets them a better return they absolutely should do so.

[notin]

No! It’s why. They paid JT not to play for them anymore.

 

For years, you’ve called him Chris Frail. Not one person out here projected him as a member of the Sox rotation. When he was brought up, the comment was always “you can’t count on Sale.” He’s throw 151 IP TOTAL in the past FOUR YEARS!

 

Exactly how much trade value do you think he had on his own? If the Sox didn’t pay done his debt, all they would have gotten is salary relief. And that wouldn’t be worth anything given how little they spend on players…

[Old Red]

Then would you have preferred nothing back in return?

 

Teams kick in money, literally all the time to up the return. It’s just money for one year, that was a sunk cost.

 

This deal doesn’t happen otherwise, and Chris Sale is burning up a rotation spot. Instead of someone who might be able to actually Betsy healthy and provide more value.

I’ve already answered that yesterday that I would have been happy if Atlanta had given nothing back as long as they paid all of Sale’s salary, which in return for that $27M saved the Red Sox could have gone out, and gotten something better than what they got back anyway. If it would the other way around, and the Red Sox paid $10M instead it would have looked a little better, but not $17M. That’s my opinion anyway. It’s like Sale is still on the team, but not pitching for you, and you’re still paying him $17M.

[Old Red]

For years, you’ve called him Chris Frail. Not one person out here projected him as a member of the Sox rotation. When he was brought up, the comment was always “you can’t count on Sale.” He’s throw 151 IP TOTAL in the past FOUR YEARS!

 

Exactly how much trade value do you think he had on his own? If the Sox didn’t pay done his debt, all they would have gotten is salary relief. And that wouldn’t be worth anything given how little they spend on players…

 

Everyone had Sale penciled in to the Red Sox rotation, and starting opening day.

[notin]

I’ve already answered that yesterday that I would have been happy if Atlanta had given nothing back as long as they paid all of Sale’s salary, which in return for that $27M saved the Red Sox could have gone out, and gotten something better than what they got back anyway. If it would the other way around, and the Red Sox paid $10M instead it would have looked a little better, but not $17M. That’s my opinion anyway. It’s like Sale is still on the team, but not pitching for you, and you’re still paying him $17M.

 

 

1. There’s no guarantee the Sox would spend any of that $17mill on anyone.

2. Given the past 4 years, it’s not likely Sale will pitch much anywhere. And if he doesn’t pitch, we now got Atlanta to cover $10mill of his salary and give up a very good prospect for the right to do so…

[Hugh2]

I’ve already answered that yesterday that I would have been happy if Atlanta had given nothing back as long as they paid all of Sale’s salary, which in return for that $27M saved the Red Sox could have gone out, and gotten something better than what they got back anyway. If it would the other way around, and the Red Sox paid $10M instead it would have looked a little better, but not $17M. That’s my opinion anyway. It’s like Sale is still on the team, but not pitching for you, and you’re still paying him $17M.

 

What could they possibly have gotten that they can’t get right now?

 

Sox are still $40 million under the cap, and they’ve shown a willingness to go over in the past, they could spend $60 this year and still reset next.

 

Heck, if they wanted too, they could sign Snell and Montgomery BOTH and reset next year.

 

Those guys are likely 7-9 year commitments. If the Sox don’t sign them it’s because they don’t want to pay them what they’re getting over the life of the contract. There’s NO way on gods green earth that Sales money for one year is preventing them from going that route if they wanted to.

[Hugh2]

1. There’s no guarantee the Sox would spend any of that $17mill on anyone.

2. Given the past 4 years, it’s not likely Sale will pitch much anywhere. And if he doesn’t pitch, we now got Atlanta to cover $10mill of his salary and give up a very good prospect for the right to do so…

 

There may not of been a single team out there willing to take on the entirety of his contract also.

[notin]

Everyone had Sale penciled in to the Red Sox rotation, and starting opening day.

 

Not really. Anyone who did did do with the caveat that you needed someone to cover for him.

 

You didn’t give him the nickname “Chris Frail” because he’s a delicate flower.

 

From ages 31 to 34, Sale totaled 151 IP. Why are you do confident he’s going to top that total at age 35?

 

And NOBODY referred to him as their opening day starter. No one even assumed he’d survive the gauntlet of Spring Training…

Edited December 31, 2023 by notin

[Hugh2]

Everyone had Sale penciled in to the Red Sox rotation, and starting opening day.

 

I wear shoes and my Son likes chocolate milk.

[notin]

There may not of been a single team out there willing to take on the entirety of his contract also.

 

There was only one team that had a shot of being the sole payer of Sale’s contract, and that was the Sox…

[Hugh2]

There was only one team that had a shot of being the sole payer of Sale’s contract, and that was the Sox…

 

I mean, we could have kept Sale to be our ACE and signed Witt Merifield to be our second baseman

 

Maybe we could have brought Kike back to play 2nd.

[Old Red]

What could they possibly have gotten that they can’t get right now?

 

Sox are still $40 million under the cap, and they’ve shown a willingness to go over in the past, they could spend $60 this year and still reset next.

 

Heck, if they wanted too, they could sign Snell and Montgomery BOTH and reset next year.

 

Those guys are likely 7-9 year commitments. If the Sox don’t sign them it’s because they don’t want to pay them what they’re getting over the life of the contract. There’s NO way on gods green earth that Sales money for one year is preventing them from going that route if they wanted to.

They could have resigned Mookie, and Bogey too, but they didn’t, so when you say they could sign both Snell, and Monty right now that’s nothing, but wishful thinking.

[notin]

They could have resigned Mookie, and Bogey too, but they didn’t, so when you say they could sign both Snell, and Monty right now that’s nothing, but wishful thinking.

 

So is thinking unloading Sale and his full salary would have lead to signing a better player…

[Bellhorn04]

Ain't that the truth.

 

I'm rather surprised by the negative reaction to.this trade. We've got an exciting 2nd baseman at last. Removed another 10m off the bill to spend elsewhere.

 

We're clearly going to be sending a middle infield prospect or 2 away for pitching. If they get Teoscar, likely packaged with one of outfield prospects for a very exciting young pitcher.

 

It's like people are judging the entire coming season on what we have now. Clearly more moves are coming.

 

I think the last few years of nibbling around the edges have scarred people. Breslow isn't Bloom. There's other big moves coming.

 

Yeah, maybe it's time to get behind Breslow a bit. He's clearly executing a plan, at least.

[Hugh2]

So is thinking unloading Sale and his full salary would have lead to signing a better player…

 

Yeah. This is definitely one of the more perplexing stances I’ve seen here in a LONG time. And just yesterday OldRed was a voice of reason on this board.