Chris Sale traded to Braves

[moonslav59]

All those guys Bloom signed were dumpster dives.

 

They don't really have much to do with Sale, who was a sunk cost and has to be evaluated as such.

 

Giolito was yet another dumpster dive, or project, considering how badly he pitched the last two months.

 

The issue is that they only signed Giolito, and when he got injured they didn't do anything to replace him.

 

Now we have to pray Houck and Crawford hold up as they pitch more innings than they ever have.

 

Winckowski might step up, we can hope so.

 

Wink was a trade acquisition from tge Beni deal. I forgot about him.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm giving credit to the Braves for thinking that he wasn't.

 

Absolutely. I've written way too much on this topic, but you have hit on the heart of the matter. The Braves saw potential in Sale, and the Sox saw an ongoing, hopeless disaster. The Sox also failed to see the real possibility that Giolito was due for TJ surgery (or the lesser version he finally went with).

 

It is still possible that Sale's elbow/shoulder/arm will go bad before his new contract, through 2026, ends. But I don't think so because he actually works on his fitness, plus the Braves have been spacing out his starts. He has yet to start/pitch 5 days after his previous start. He gets either six or seven days rest. However, in his 15 starts this season, he has also gone over 100 pitches in 7 of them. In June, he began with an awful start, 4 innings, 8 ER's--but then had three starts in which he went 7 innings in all 3, give up 2, 2, and 1 run. Against the Yankees he went 5 innings, 1 run, 95 pitches.

[Dipre]

Absolutely. I've written way too much on this topic, but you have hit on the heart of the matter. The Braves saw potential in Sale, and the Sox saw an ongoing, hopeless disaster. The Sox also failed to see the real possibility that Giolito was due for TJ surgery (or the lesser version he finally went with).

 

It is still possible that Sale's elbow/shoulder/arm will go bad before his new contract, through 2026, ends. But I don't think so because he actually works on his fitness, plus the Braves have been spacing out his starts. He has yet to start/pitch 5 days after his previous start. He gets either six or seven days rest. However, in his 15 starts this season, he has also gone over 100 pitches in 7 of them. In June, he began with an awful start, 4 innings, 8 ER's--but then had three starts in which he went 7 innings in all 3, give up 2, 2, and 1 run. Against the Yankees he went 5 innings, 1 run, 95 pitches.

 

Every pitcher in the MLB right now is a TJS risk. You are very busy pounding your chest in celebration with the benefit of hindsight to acknowledge the deal made sense. It just didn't work out.

[Maxbialystock]

Every pitcher in the MLB right now is a TJS risk. You are very busy pounding your chest in celebration with the benefit of hindsight to acknowledge the deal made sense. It just didn't work out.

 

If I'm pounding my chest, I'm wrong to do so because when Sale was let go and Giolito and Grissom were acquired I was paying absolutely no attention.

 

Somewhere in my rantings is the valid point that I think the Atlanta Braves FO is a lot smarter than the Red Sox FO.

[Duran Is The Man]

If I'm pounding my chest, I'm wrong to do so because when Sale was let go and Giolito and Grissom were acquired I was paying absolutely no attention.

 

Somewhere in my rantings is the valid point that I think the Atlanta Braves FO is a lot smarter than the Red Sox FO.

 

 

agree 100%

[moonslav59]

If I'm pounding my chest, I'm wrong to do so because when Sale was let go and Giolito and Grissom were acquired I was paying absolutely no attention.

 

Somewhere in my rantings is the valid point that I think the Atlanta Braves FO is a lot smarter than the Red Sox FO.

 

… and maybe a bit luckier on the Sale trade.

[Bellhorn04]

Every pitcher in the MLB right now is a TJS risk. You are very busy pounding your chest in celebration with the benefit of hindsight to acknowledge the deal made sense. It just didn't work out.

 

You only thought it made sense because you thought Sale was done.

[Old Red]

You only thought it made sense because you thought Sale was done.

 

Sale most likely has plenty of bullets left in that arm.

[Hugh2]

You only thought it made sense because you thought Sale was done.

 

I was hopeful for Chris Sale, and still thought he could be good when healthy, but I'll admit I lost faith in his ability to stay healthy. He hadn't had a full clean bill of health in 4.5 years and was coming into his 35 season this year.

 

It's not too unreasonable to assume the guy who is 35 and hasn't really been healthy during his enitre 30's can't come back and pitch like he did in his 20's.

 

To date this year......he is proving us wrong.

 

What he is doing, isn't all too different than hypothetically Corey Kluber coming in during the 2023 season and pitching very well for us. Albeit he was 37 not 35 but some some food for thought.

[Bellhorn04]

What he is doing, isn't all too different than hypothetically Corey Kluber coming in during the 2023 season and pitching very well for us. Albeit he was 37 not 35 but some some food for thought.

 

I don't think anyone hated the Kluber signing. The real problem was that it was the only signing.

 

Sale had a 2.1 fWAR in 102 IP last year - not spectacular but about 50% better than average. And he struck out 11 per 9 innings. As far as still showing the signs of being able to pitch well, that's exactly what he did whenever he was healthy through these injury-plagued years.

Edited July 3, 2024 by Bellhorn04

[Old Red]

I was hopeful for Chris Sale, and still thought he could be good when healthy, but I'll admit I lost faith in his ability to stay healthy. He hadn't had a full clean bill of health in 4.5 years and was coming into his 35 season this year.

 

It's not too unreasonable to assume the guy who is 35 and hasn't really been healthy during his enitre 30's can't come back and pitch like he did in his 20's.

 

To date this year......he is proving us wrong.

 

What he is doing, isn't all too different than hypothetically Corey Kluber coming in during the 2023 season and pitching very well for us. Albeit he was 37 not 35 but some some food for thought.

 

A change of scenery can do wonders, and vice versa sometimes.

[Hugh2]

I don't think anyone hated the Kluber signing. The real problem was that it was the only signing.

 

Agreed, which in hindsight no one should have been surprised. The Kluber signing was a nice reasonable risk to take if building the back of your rotation, but the Sox seemingly were banking on him returning to Cy-Young form.

 

Living on a prayer hasn't worked the last 4 years.

[Bellhorn04]

Agreed, which in hindsight no one should have been surprised. The Kluber signing was a nice reasonable risk to take if building the back of your rotation, but the Sox seemingly were banking on him returning to Cy-Young form.

 

Living on a prayer hasn't worked the last 4 years.

 

My position has never been about counting on Sale. It was about not throwing away the possibility of him doing what he's doing. Especially not when your only other move is signing Giolito.

[Hugh2]

My position has never been about counting on Sale. It was about not throwing away the possibility of him doing what he's doing. Especially not when your only other move is signing Giolito.

 

Same, I always wanted the Sox to go out and get an ace and if Sale was healthy then BOOM you gotta playoff caliber 1-2 punch.

 

I also didn't hate the Giolito signing, it sucks that he got injured but I also assumed (foolishly in hindsight) the Sox were going to go out and sign another ACE.

 

The pitching has certianly been much better than anticipated this year but another ace at the top with Houck would be playoff worthy, assuming Houck doesn't slow down. Giving his innings that does make one wonder but one interesting fact is despite Tanners innings total he's doing it throwing less pitches. If you can get threw 7 innings throwing 10-15 pitches less, that's going to create a lot less stress on the arm.

[Bellhorn04]

Same, I always wanted the Sox to go out and get an ace and if Sale was healthy then BOOM you gotta playoff caliber 1-2 punch.

 

I also didn't hate the Giolito signing, it sucks that he got injured but I also assumed (foolishly in hindsight) the Sox were going to go out and sign another ACE.

 

We were all foolish on that point.

[Hugh2]

We were all foolish on that point.

 

Yeah, I have you read my quoted tagline?

 

I could delete it, but I strive for authenticity damnit!!!!

[Old Red]

We were all foolish on that point.

 

I never thought the Red Sox were going to go out, and sign any high priced FA pitcher this past offseason, but on the other hand I thought they were going to go out, and traded for a top of the rotation pitcher. All wrong.

[Hugh2]

It's my scarlet letter, I must wear it as a constant reminder. Never again.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, I have you read my quoted tagline?

 

I could delete it, but I strive for authenticity damnit!!!!

 

I totally respect the accountability.

[Hugh2]

we were all duped in our own ways.

[Bellhorn04]

I never thought the Red Sox were going to go out, and sign any high priced FA pitcher this past offseason, but on the other hand I thought they were going to go out, and traded for a top of the rotation pitcher. All wrong.

 

And it's pretty incredible that with Giolito getting injured and no additions whatsoever outside of one nice dumpster dive in Criswell, we're doing as well as we are.

 

It could all go sideways in a hurry if Houck and Crawford wear down.

[Old Red]

And it's pretty incredible that with Giolito getting injured and no additions whatsoever outside of one nice dumpster dive in Criswell, we're doing as well as we are.

 

It could all go sideways in a hurry if Houck and Crawford wear down.

 

I’m sure Houck will be monitored the rest of the season, and has a BIG bounce back Friday against the Yankees.

[Hugh2]

I remember posters in here arguing about pitchers being injured more as starters.

 

I also remember shortly after listening to a soxprospects.com podcast where they were talking about a study into this. I should probably look this up to verify that I'm not mixing it up and it's the other way around but I believe there's no relationship between starting and relieving for elbow injuries BUT starting pitchers tend to sustain a much greater number of shoulder injuries than relief pitchers.

 

I think Tanners low pitch counts will allow him to pitch deeper in the season BUT he's at his career high right now. You can't just shake that off, and if this team does make it into the playoffs that will be even more stress on his elbow. Which seemingly is fine.....but we should hope it stays that way.

 

I don't know how you can even think about doing this from a roster construction point of view, but from a physiological point of view, it almost makes sense to shut down every pitcher for 2 weeks in the middle of every season. You won't see that, but in a hypothetical alternate universe I bet that reduces a lot of elbow injuries.

[Dipre]

I was the main one arguing for starters being injured more often. I remember citing at least one piece on the matter.

[notin]

I was the main one arguing for starters being injured more often. I remember citing at least one piece on the matter.

 

That’s an odd stance to take.

 

I prefer arguing against starters being injured more often…

[Hugh2]

I was the main one arguing for starters being injured more often. I remember citing at least one piece on the matter.

 

 

I looked it up, it's shoulder injuries for starting pitchers. Elbows seem to be equal opportunity blow outs. Or at least according to some sources, admittedly I haven't read them myself.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don't think anyone hated the Kluber signing.

 

I hated him throwing at Nunez for swinging too hard. Arrogant pitcher -- does Nunez then get to throw his bat at you, for trying to throw too hard?

 

Kluber's last pitch before Boston signed him was a playoff-losing gopher ball that knocked the Rays out of the '22 playoffs. Those pitching experts in Tampa were glad to see him go to the Red Sox.

 

I also thought signing Giolito -- who sucked the last two seasons -- as the new ace, smacked of mid-market pretense.

 

The guy I coveted actually coming off success was Montgomery. Imagine where we'd be with him right now: sixth place? Seventh?

[Bellhorn04]

I hated him throwing at Nunez for swinging too hard. Arrogant pitcher -- does Nunez then get to throw his bat at you, for trying to throw too hard?

 

Kluber's last pitch before Boston signed him was a playoff-losing gopher ball that knocked the Rays out of the '22 playoffs. Those pitching experts in Tampa were glad to see him go to the Red Sox.

 

I also thought signing Giolito -- who sucked the last two seasons -- as the new ace, smacked of mid-market pretense.

 

Yes, their approach to the rotation this offseason, including trading Sale, was very mid-market, and I don't object to the "pretentious" part either.

[Old Red]

I hated him throwing at Nunez for swinging too hard. Arrogant pitcher -- does Nunez then get to throw his bat at you, for trying to throw too hard?

 

Kluber's last pitch before Boston signed him was a playoff-losing gopher ball that knocked the Rays out of the '22 playoffs. Those pitching experts in Tampa were glad to see him go to the Red Sox.

 

I also thought signing Giolito -- who sucked the last two seasons -- as the new ace, smacked of mid-market pretense.

 

The guy I coveted actually coming off success was Montgomery. Imagine where we'd be with him right now: sixth place? Seventh?

Monty, and his 6+ ERA is currently on the IL with a knee problem. I’m sure there was offers out there that he had wished he’d taken now. Him, and Snell.

[dgalehouse]

Hardly a day goes by without another pitcher going on the I.L.