Chris Sale traded to Braves

[notin]

Well, they're "accomodating" Max Fried exactly the same.

 

The fact that Atlanta is using a different approach doesn't mean Sale or Fried wouldn't be able to handle Boston's approach.

 

Full marks for effort, though.

 

Huh?

 

It didn’t matter who else Atalanta gives additional rest to. Charlie Morton also gets some. The point is Atlanta can do this because unlike Boston, they have multiple starting pitchers in the majors and ready to step in from the minors. Heck the Braves had a former MLB All Star on the AAA staff to start the season.

 

If Sale was in Boston, would he be handled the same? Or would he be pitching with less rest more often?

[Bellhorn04]

Huh?

 

It didn’t matter who else Atalanta gives additional rest to. Charlie Morton also gets some. The point is Atlanta can do this because unlike Boston, they have multiple starting pitchers in the majors and ready to step in from the minors. Heck the Braves had a former MLB All Star on the AAA staff to start the season.

 

If Sale was in Boston, would he be handled the same? Or would he be pitching with less rest more often?

 

The latter, presumably.

 

And we don't know how much difference any of it makes.

 

Maybe if Atlanta was pitching these guys on fewer days rest they'd have a better record. Don't you normally want to use your best as much as possible? They're not 5 deep in aces. Maybe what they're doing is stupid. It's all a matter of opinion.

[mvp 78]

The latter, presumably.

 

And we don't know how much difference any of it makes.

 

Maybe if Atlanta was pitching these guys on fewer days rest they'd have a better record. Don't you normally want to use your best as much as possible? They're not 5 deep in aces. Maybe what they're doing is stupid. It's all a matter of opinion.

 

“We did notice the last few years, our guys did run out of gas, a little bit,” Anthopoulos said. “And there were some times where – it’s not something we’re gonna advertise to the media – guys were sore and so on, but they would pitch through it. But it felt like when we got to the postseason – and I don’t want to assume the playoffs, but something needed to change. And that year that we chased down the Mets, we had a 20-game stretch – 20 games in a row – we wanted to insert an extra starter, we just weren’t in the position to do it. We just thought at the end of the day, it caught up to us, both times.”

 

They are trying to stay healthy and well rested for the stretch run.

[Bellhorn04]

“We did notice the last few years, our guys did run out of gas, a little bit,” Anthopoulos said. “And there were some times where – it’s not something we’re gonna advertise to the media – guys were sore and so on, but they would pitch through it. But it felt like when we got to the postseason – and I don’t want to assume the playoffs, but something needed to change. And that year that we chased down the Mets, we had a 20-game stretch – 20 games in a row – we wanted to insert an extra starter, we just weren’t in the position to do it. We just thought at the end of the day, it caught up to us, both times.”

 

They are trying to stay healthy and well rested for the stretch run.

 

Sure, that makes sense.

 

But notin's theory that the Braves were able to utilize Sale and allow for the possibility of him getting injured better than us does not. If Sale gets hurt it's going to be a blow to them just like it would be with us. They have Fried, Lopez and Morton. We have Houck, Crawford and Bello. Plus we obviously could have signed another starter.

[Bellhorn04]

Give us the list of names that make up this great starting pitching depth for the Braves.

[notin]

The latter, presumably.

 

And we don't know how much difference any of it makes.

 

Maybe if Atlanta was pitching these guys on fewer days rest they'd have a better record. Don't you normally want to use your best as much as possible? They're not 5 deep in aces. Maybe what they're doing is stupid. It's all a matter of opinion.

 

I’m not asking how it works for the Braves’ overall won-loss record, just how it affects an individual pitcher’s performance and health. Is it better for ann individual pitcher? Does it somewhat mitigate the risk of injury? Or does it exacerbate it?

Edited July 8, 2024 by notin

[notin]

Give us the list of names that make up this great starting pitching depth for the Braves.

 

At the beginning of the year, they had Strider, Fried, Morton, Lopez, Sale, Elder, Waldrep, Dodd, Vines, Smith-Shawver, Schwellenbach, Ynoa, and Winans.

 

Their system is also working quite well for Reynaldo Lopez.

 

That’s 13 starting pitchers. Who are the Sox top 13?

Edited July 8, 2024 by notin

[mvp 78]

Sure, that makes sense.

 

But notin's theory that the Braves were able to utilize Sale and allow for the possibility of him getting injured better than us does not. If Sale gets hurt it's going to be a blow to them just like it would be with us. They have Fried, Lopez and Morton. We have Houck, Crawford and Bello. Plus we obviously could have signed another starter.

 

They have a better depth of starters than the Sox do at the moment even with the Strider injury. Red Sox have needed to run with bullpen games. The Braves don't rely on bullpen games to manage their starter workload. Not sure how you can compare Crawford and Bello with Fried and Lopez.

[mvp 78]

At the beginning of the year, they had Strider, Fried, Morton, Lopez, Sale, Elder, Waldrep, Dodd, Vines, Smith-Shawver, Schwellenbach, Ynoa, and Winans.

 

Their system is also working quite well for Reynaldo Lopez.

 

That’s 12 starting pitchers. Who are the Sox top 12?

 

The Braves have great starting pitcher depth. The Sox after the top 5 went to Cooper Criswell and Winckowski. After that, it would get ugly fast.

[notin]

The Braves have great starting pitcher depth. The Sox after the top 5 went to Cooper Criswell and Winckowski. After that, it would get ugly fast.

 

Sale obviously makes the Sox that much better. But they simply couldn’t count on him. Giolito looked worse in every way but one - he has had superior durability to Sale. I suspect that was the goal here…

[mvp 78]

Sale obviously makes the Sox that much better. But they simply couldn’t count on him. Giolito looked worse in every way but one - he has had superior durability to Sale. I suspect that was the goal here…

 

Sale was around for one more year. Giolito will be potentially around through 2026.

[notin]

Sure, that makes sense.

 

But notin's theory that the Braves were able to utilize Sale and allow for the possibility of him getting injured better than us does not. If Sale gets hurt it's going to be a blow to them just like it would be with us. They have Fried, Lopez and Morton. We have Houck, Crawford and Bello. Plus we obviously could have signed another starter.

 

 

Adding another starter would have been nice for Boston. I’ve repeatedly listed some MLB vet talent that settled for MiLB deals. No idea why Boston just avoided them all.

 

Let me explain my point. An MLB season is about 1450 innings. A good goal for a team is to have the rotation pitch 800-850 innings, leaving the remaining IP for the bullpen. Sale in recent years has not been much for innings, with about 150 from 2029 thru 2023. If the Sox counted on Sale, and he only pitched 40 IP, they have fewer arms to handle that remaining 760-810 IP. The Braves, as shown by the 13 names listed previously, have many more arms to pick up that difference…

[Bellhorn04]

Adding another starter would have been nice for Boston. I’ve repeatedly listed some MLB vet talent that settled for MiLB deals. No idea why Boston just avoided them all.

 

Let me explain my point. An MLB season is about 1450 innings. A good goal for a team is to have the rotation pitch 800-850 innings, leaving the remaining IP for the bullpen. Sale in recent years has not been much for innings, with about 150 from 2029 thru 2023. If the Sox counted on Sale, and he only pitched 40 IP, they have fewer arms to handle that remaining 760-810 IP. The Braves, as shown by the 13 names listed previously, have many more arms to pick up that difference…

 

OK, I can see the rationale for why the trade for Sale made sense for the Braves.

 

It still doesn't convince me that the Red Sox lack of depth made it a good move to trade Sale. Their lack of depth has a lot to do with their reluctance to sign starters.

[notin]

OK, I can see the rationale for why the trade for Sale made sense for the Braves.

 

It still doesn't convince me that the Red Sox lack of depth made it a good move to trade Sale. Their lack of depth has a lot to do with their reluctance to sign starters.

 

I think they moved him figuring they’re probably not going to get their IP from him, and someone had to go to fit a SP who can into the budget. But they clearly liked Grissom as well, and had to pay more cash to get him in return.

 

 

Of course it didn’t help that they will get 0 IP from the guy they expected to provide 150-180 IP…

[Bellhorn04]

I think they moved him figuring they’re probably not going to get their IP from him, and someone had to go to fit a SP who can into the budget. But they clearly liked Grissom as well, and had to pay more cash to get him in return.

 

 

Of course it didn’t help that they will get 0 IP from the guy they expected to provide 150-180 IP…

 

And they did nothing to replace him.

[Maxbialystock]

Sure, that makes sense.

 

But notin's theory that the Braves were able to utilize Sale and allow for the possibility of him getting injured better than us does not. If Sale gets hurt it's going to be a blow to them just like it would be with us. They have Fried, Lopez and Morton. We have Houck, Crawford and Bello. Plus we obviously could have signed another starter.

 

Oh, but we did sign another starter--Giolito.

[notin]

Oh, but we did sign another starter--Giolito.

 

But then he went down and they didn’t replace him. That was a definite issue…

[moonslav59]

I doubt we sign Gio had we kept Sale, and JH refused to adjust the budget after Gio’s injury.

 

Here is my take on our SPer depth for2024|

 

1. Gioliti IL

2. Bello

3. Crawford

4. Whitlock IL

5. Pivetta

6. Houck

7. Criswell (rehab)

8. Winckowski

9. Mate (rehab)

10. Murphy IL, Walter IL, Anderson

Gambrell, Alexander,Fitts, Hagenman

 

[Nick]

Why do you constantly talk about this?

 

Yes it would be great had we not done the deal.

 

What if if if if.

Geeze live in the real world! You can't do anything?about it.

 

Focus on making?the team better.

 

I predict this thread will be 100+ pages.

[Bellhorn04]

Why do you constantly talk about this?

 

Yes it would be great had we not done the deal.

 

What if if if if.

Geeze live in the real world! You can't do anything?about it.

 

Focus on making?the team better.

 

I would counter that talking about how to make the team better is equally "what if" and equally pointless, because they're gonna do what they're gonna do, as always.

 

Almost all of our talk here is totally pointless. Except that we seem to enjoy it for some reason.

[Old Red]

As fate would have it, he's pitching tonight on 4 days rest.

 

He also pitched May 1 on 4 days rest.

 

He actually didn’t pitch last night, and was pushed back until today.

[mvp 78]

He actually didn’t pitch last night, and was pushed back until today.

 

What a f***ing surprise!

[Old Red]

What a f***ing surprise!

 

The manager said they brought someone up to give all their starters an xtra day leading into the AS break, but seems like a last minute decision. Said Sale will pitch again Sunday.

[notin]

The manager said they brought someone up to give all their starters an xtra day leading into the AS break, but seems like a last minute decision. Said Sale will pitch again Sunday.

 

They’re clearly babying Sale in a way the Sox couldn’t. Good for them as it’s working…

[Bellhorn04]

They’re clearly babying Sale in a way the Sox couldn’t. Good for them as it’s working…

 

I thought we established the Braves are "babying" all their starters. If Sale pitches 3 innings tonight he'll be T1 in starts and leading in IP.

[notin]

I thought we established the Braves are "babying" all their starters. If Sale pitches 3 innings tonight he'll be T1 in starts and leading in IP.

 

I thought we established that was irrelevant. The bottom line is Sale would not be treated this way if he was still in Boston...

[mvp 78]

I thought we established the Braves are "babying" all their starters. If Sale pitches 3 innings tonight he'll be T1 in starts and leading in IP.

 

Nobody listens around here! I even posted an article from Atlanta that stated clearly what the Braves were doing.

[mvp 78]

I thought we established that was irrelevant. The bottom line is Sale would not be treated this way if he was still in Boston...

 

That's two different arguments.

[Bellhorn04]

That's two different arguments.

 

Thank you!

[notin]

Nobody listens around here! I even posted an article from Atlanta that stated clearly what the Braves were doing.

 

I saw it. They're giving extra rest to their starters especially during stretches where they have 5 or 6 games in a row. Is that helping? It certainly seems that way, since they have two starters headed to the All Star game who have not been full time starters since 2019 and who have combined for barely more IP total in the past 4 years than Giolito has had in the past two all by himself.

 

Now my point is if Sale was in Boston, would he be getting this same treatment? And if not, how would that effect his performance here? (Yes, he would still be better than Cooper Criswell. But would he be in Cy Young talks and a solid frontrunner for Comeback Player of the Year?)