Chris Sale traded to Braves

[Hugh2]

So really.........The Red Sox were just getting a leg up on everyone else with all the injuries the last few years.

[Old Red]

Another good outing by Sale tonight.

 

6 IP

 

3H

 

1 R

 

9 K

[Bellhorn04]

fWAR went from 3.0 to 3.3.

[Old Red]

fWAR went from 3.0 to 3.3.

 

JH has got to be seething. He’s still paying Sale 17M to pitch like this. He’s still paying Gio even more money to not pitch at all, and Grissom has been pretty much a NO show on, and off the field.

[Bellhorn04]

JH has got to be seething. He’s still paying Sale 17M to pitch like this. He’s still paying Gio even more money to not pitch at all, and Grissom has been pretty much a NO show on, and off the field.

 

Yep. Of course it's my theory that JH's low throttle budget had a lot to do with Breslow trading Sale.

 

Nobody gets a pass for this.

 

Breslow may still end up looking good in spite of it.

[Bellhorn04]

Plus there's a new report about how wondrously deep in middle infield prospects the Sox are.

 

Seems like if the Sox had a need at second base this year, a stopgap would have made more sense than another prospect like Grissom.

 

But the stopgap might have cost a few bucks, so it's that damn budget again.

[Duran Is The Man]

Plus there's a new report about how wondrously deep in middle infield prospects the Sox are.

 

Seems like if the Sox had a need at second base this year, a stopgap would have made more sense than another prospect like Grissom.

 

But the stopgap might have cost a few bucks, so it's that damn budget again.

 

 

it's not like Iggy wasn't available. or they could have paid Aldaberto to rehab for the year again. LOL. i truly believe we have the dumbest FO in all of baseball sometimes.

[Dipre]

Plus there's a new report about how wondrously deep in middle infield prospects the Sox are.

 

Seems like if the Sox had a need at second base this year, a stopgap would have made more sense than another prospect like Grissom.

 

But the stopgap might have cost a few bucks, so it's that damn budget again.

 

They're paying Sale 17 mill to *not* pitch for them, and they also paid up for Giolito, so I don't think that's it. I think they genuinely saw Grissom as a difference maker.

[notin]

They're paying Sale 17 mill to *not* pitch for them, and they also paid up for Giolito, so I don't think that's it. I think they genuinely saw Grissom as a difference maker.

 

I agree. Considering swapping out Sale for Giolito cost them a fair amount of cash, it feels like a massive oversimplification to say this was about Henry’s budget.

 

Sure the budget influenced it, what with Sale’s previous four seasons involving paying him some $110mill to pitch all of 151 innings. Sale was expensive and unreliable. That was a bigger factor. If you think Henry is all about the budget, I don’t get how one can conclude Henry would rather pay $35mill to the combination of Giolito and Sale as opposed to just paying $27.5 mill to Sale…

[Bellhorn04]

I agree. Considering swapping out Sale for Giolito cost them a fair amount of cash, it feels like a massive oversimplification to say this was about Henry’s budget.

 

Sure the budget influenced it, what with Sale’s previous four seasons involving paying him some $110mill to pitch all of 151 innings. Sale was expensive and unreliable. That was a bigger factor. If you think Henry is all about the budget, I don’t get how one can conclude Henry would rather pay $35mill to the combination of Giolito and Sale as opposed to just paying $27.5 mill to Sale…

 

I'm not sure what it is you don't get. The theory is pretty simple:

 

-Henry's role in this was limited to giving Breslow the budget. The budget was low throttle.

-Breslow wanted to sign Giolito and make some other acquisitions.

-He didn't have enough room in the budget to sign Giolito and make those other acquisitions without cutting payroll somewhere else.

-Trading Sale cut 10 million.

 

All very simple stuff.

[Dipre]

The fact that it's simple doesn't make it right either way (I mean yours or notin's). But, Occam's razor.

[Bellhorn04]

They're paying Sale 17 mill to *not* pitch for them, and they also paid up for Giolito, so I don't think that's it. I think they genuinely saw Grissom as a difference maker.

 

And Grissom absolutely stunk in all areas in his limited MLB time in 2023.

[Bellhorn04]

Grissom was about half a win below replacement level in 2023 by both fWAR and bWAR. Doesn't really sound like a guy you expect to plug and play.

[Dipre]

Grissom was about half a win below replacement level in 2023 by both fWAR and bWAR. Doesn't really sound like a guy you expect to plug and play.

 

Yeah but we're not privy to their evaluation on Grissom.

[Maxbialystock]

I agree with all the bad stuff about Sale, Giolito, and Grissom. Just a complete disaster which only reinforces JH's belief that his brain trust lacks brains.

 

On the other hand, a team now without Story, Whitlock, Sale, Grissom, Giolito, Casas, and others I can't remember is right now, July 4, 2024, playing some of their best ball since the 2021 Sox made it all the way to the ALCS.

 

The pitching, now with a rotation of Houck, Crawford, Pivetta, Winckowski, and Bello, is the best Sox pitching in a decade or more because the Sox ERA is ranked 7th in MLB. And everyone on that pitching staff except Jansen is a bargain basement no-name.

 

Houck, who just a year ago was tabbed as the guy who couldn't get guys out the third time through the order, is the Sox ace and his WAR, 2.8, is a tad better than Sale's 2.7, plus he has more quality starts, 13 to 10. Duran, who seemed to be emerging last year, has gone completely ape this year with the 4th highest WAR, 4.6, in MLB (not including pitchers).

 

The Sox still lead MLB in errors--7 more than the next worst--but somehow manage to get guys out thanks to the pitching and what is actually a pretty decent defensive outfield. Speaking of whom, Rafaela and Abreu, both with much lower WAR's (1.2 and 1.8) than Duran, nevertheless contribute a bunch. Rafaela, still batting 9th, has 47 rbi's to team leader Devers' 49. Hamilton's WAR is a decent 1.3 (OPS .741 also decent) and he has only committed one more error than Devers' 6. Rafaela has a DWAR of +0.5 despite 10 errors.

 

Before I forget, Cora is the best manager in MLB and absolutely perfect for this team--as he was also perfect for the 2018 juggernaut. And the pitching coach is one of the best in MLB. If Cora has failed, it might be in his reluctance to conduct some form of laying on of hands to transfer his defensive infield chops to Devers, Hamilton, Valdez, Smith, Rafaela, et al.

 

Sox hitting so far is a bigger weakness than the defense because they are ranked 12th in runs scored, which historically has destined Sox teams to losing seasons. The Sox are, however, ranked 6th in team OPS, so the problem seems to be "RISP disease." And I think that is caused by two things: a fairly inexperienced lineup and one that lacks a bonafide big righty bat.

[Dipre]

Too many auto-outs for certain lineups has doomed their ability to score runs for stretches of the season.

[notin]

I'm not sure what it is you don't get. The theory is pretty simple:

 

-Henry's role in this was limited to giving Breslow the budget. The budget was low throttle.

-Breslow wanted to sign Giolito and make some other acquisitions.

-He didn't have enough room in the budget to sign Giolito and make those other acquisitions without cutting payroll somewhere else.

-Trading Sale cut 10 million.

 

All very simple stuff.

 

That’s one theory.

 

Another one is they saw the chance to move Sale’s contract, which had been largely unproductive for the past 4 years.

 

Atlanta had reportedly shown interest in the past, so the Sox reached out and asked about Grissom. As Atlanta was not about to surrender a piece as valuable as Grissom for a pitcher who could very easily miss the entire season again, they agreed assuming the Sox took on the bulk of the financial risk.

 

Sale then insisted on some sort of an extension as a condition of approving the trade. There was absolutely no other reason to extend him so quickly. None whatsoever.

 

Now without Sale, the Sox needed an arm in the rotation. They identified Giolito as a good option due to his durability, as they hoped he could handle the innings Sale couldn’t.

 

I’m not as sure Giolito was the primary focus like in your narrative. I think offloading Sale’s deal rather than going through another year of hoping he would bounce back and salvage the season. They preferred to try players that might actually play.

 

It couldn’t have turned out worse. But it always looked to me like that was the goal.

[notin]

I'm not sure what it is you don't get. The theory is pretty simple:

 

-Henry's role in this was limited to giving Breslow the budget. The budget was low throttle.

-Breslow wanted to sign Giolito and make some other acquisitions.

-He didn't have enough room in the budget to sign Giolito and make those other acquisitions without cutting payroll somewhere else.

-Trading Sale cut 10 million.

 

All very simple stuff.

 

A much simpler way to cut $10mill would have been selling high on Chris Martin. Sale, coming off 4 years of extensive inactivity, was a tough move and one they paid almost 3/4 of. Plus was more expensive to replace.

 

 

I’d think if the goal was to cut $10mill, Martin was a better option as trade bait…

[Bellhorn04]

Now without Sale, the Sox needed an arm in the rotation. They identified Giolito as a good option due to his durability, as they hoped he could handle the innings Sale couldn’t.

 

The signing of Giolito was actually announced the day before the Sale trade was announced. Looks like they were probably both in the works at the same time.

[Old Red]

That’s one theory.

 

Another one is they saw the chance to move Sale’s contract, which had been largely unproductive for the past 4 years.

 

Atlanta had reportedly shown interest in the past, so the Sox reached out and asked about Grissom. As Atlanta was not about to surrender a piece as valuable as Grissom for a pitcher who could very easily miss the entire season again, they agreed assuming the Sox took on the bulk of the financial risk.

 

Sale then insisted on some sort of an extension as a condition of approving the trade. There was absolutely no other reason to extend him so quickly. None whatsoever.

 

Now without Sale, the Sox needed an arm in the rotation. They identified Giolito as a good option due to his durability, as they hoped he could handle the innings Sale couldn’t.

 

I’m not as sure Giolito was the primary focus like in your narrative. I think offloading Sale’s deal rather than going through another year of hoping he would bounce back and salvage the season. They preferred to try players that might actually play.

 

It couldn’t have turned out worse. But it always looked to me like that was the goal.

Moving Sale’s contract? Still paying $17M out of $27M is not moving a contract to me.

A piece as valuable to Grissom? Grissom had a chance to win a job in Atlanta, but couldn’t do it, but obviously the Braves got someone to take him, and get Sale in return, and have the Red Sox kick in $17M to boot to pay more than half of Sales contract. Pretty generous of JH.

[Dipre]

Moving Sale’s contract? Still paying $17M out of $27M is not moving a contract to me.

A piece as valuable to Grissom? Grissom had a chance to win a job in Atlanta, but couldn’t do it, but obviously the Braves got someone to take him, and get Sale in return, and have the Red Sox kick in $17M to boot to pay more than half of Sales contract. Pretty generous of JH.

 

Aren't you always whining about him being cheap? So is he generous or cheap?

[Old Red]

Aren't you always whining about him being cheap? So is he generous or cheap?

 

From all the chatter that I’ve been reading, and hearing on the Sale matter MOST people have opinionated that JH was real generous to the Braves, which I questioned when the trade happened. Paying the Braves $17M for Sale to pitch for them is pretty easy what to call it for MOST. Also there has been a lot more people on here, and there calling out JH for being cheap.🙈🤭

[Dipre]

JH is not cheap confirmed. He is a generous lizard person.

[Bellhorn04]

Henry generously donated Lester to the Cubs to help them break a 108-year title drought, and he donated Betts to the Dodgers to help them break a 32-year drought.

[Old Red]

Henry generously donated Lester to the Cubs to help them break a 108-year title drought, and he donated Betts to the Dodgers to help them break a 32-year drought.

 

Lester was, and still is a JH puzzler. He didn’t want to pay Lester, but then went out, and paid twice the price for Price.

[Bellhorn04]

Lester was, and still is a JH puzzler. He didn’t want to pay Lester, but then went out, and paid twice the price for Price.

 

He has changed his mind many times.

[Dipre]

I am writing a paper on JH being the most generous owner in baseball

[Bellhorn04]

I am writing a paper on JH being the most generous owner in baseball

 

Don't take everything literally though.

[notin]

Moving Sale’s contract? Still paying $17M out of $27M is not moving a contract to me.

A piece as valuable to Grissom? Grissom had a chance to win a job in Atlanta, but couldn’t do it, but obviously the Braves got someone to take him, and get Sale in return, and have the Red Sox kick in $17M to boot to pay more than half of Sales contract. Pretty generous of JH.

 

Yes, they wanted to move Sale’s contract. Did the part about Atlanta asking Boston take the financial burden not show up on your screen? Or do you only read partial posts so as to leave room for irrelevant criticisms? And despite his brief performance in Boston, Grissom was absolutely a valuable trade piece, and one the Braves were not merely handing over for nothing.

 

Why do you suppose the Sox paid $17mill? Or better question - why do you suppose Atlanta asked for a huge chunk of money be included along with Sale?

[Bellhorn04]

Why do you suppose the Sox paid $17mill? Or better question - why do you suppose Atlanta asked for a huge chunk of money be included along with Sale?

 

Because the Sox are suckers and Atlanta was happy to take advantage?