Chris Sale traded to Braves

[notin]

No one is paying for a 1/3 year rental with a top 40 prospect. That rarely happens.

 

I think the only ranked prospects moved last year at the deadline were for Scherzer and Verlander, both of whom were under control this year. And in both cases, the Mets kicked in lots of money…

[illinoisredsox]

Just the facts Jack, and as usual you added nothing to the conversation. Another goose egg for goose.

 

The first part of your statement (ending in “worse and worse.”) was fine. One can agree or disagree with it as they see fit.

 

Attempting to mock Grissom by using the name of an astronaut killed in the Apollo 1 fire 57 years ago is pathetic.

[Old Red]

The first part of your statement (ending in “worse and worse.”) was fine. One can agree or disagree with it as they see fit.

 

Attempting to mock Grissom by using the name of an astronaut killed in the Apollo 1 fire 57 years ago is pathetic.

Not mocking Anyone Goose. Grissom has been a NO Show pretty much all year on the field, and mostly off the field, and that’s just a proven fact.

[moonslav59]

not to get anything decent they don't

 

Wait until you see how little some teams give up for significant players at the deadline. We can get real talent without trading a top 8-10 prospect, not just top 3.

[Maxbialystock]

Wait until you see how little some teams give up for significant players at the deadline. We can get real talent without trading a top 8-10 prospect, not just top 3.

 

Despite today's and yesterday's horrible games, I now share your enthusiasm for making a smart trade next month. If, however, these two games are the harbinger of finishing last in the AL East, then I don't.

[a700hitter]

No one is saying the trade has worked out. Just that it made more sense in January when no one knew Sale would actually be healthy and Giolito wouldn’t…

It never made sense and was stupid from day 1 as was the Mookie trade. Sure we can explain the reasons for the stupidity, but it is still stupidity.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

This is weird stuff though. Chris Sale couldn't stay healthy in a Red Sox uniform. They trade him away and he not only stays healthy (at least so far) but turns into a top starter again.

[Randy Red Sox]

Wait until you see how little some teams give up for significant players at the deadline. We can get real talent without trading a top 8-10 prospect, not just top 3.

 

like we have done the past 2-3 years?

[moonslav59]

Despite today's and yesterday's horrible games, I now share your enthusiasm for making a smart trade next month. If, however, these two games are the harbinger of finishing last in the AL East, then I don't.

 

There is still plenty of time for us to move into the sellers group.

[moonslav59]

like we have done the past 2-3 years?

 

Yes.

 

We have not even traded a4-20 prospect since Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber.

[Bellhorn04]

The first part of your statement (ending in “worse and worse.”) was fine. One can agree or disagree with it as they see fit.

 

Attempting to mock Grissom by using the name of an astronaut killed in the Apollo 1 fire 57 years ago is pathetic.

 

To be fair, yes, Grissom was a victim of that tragic fire, but he was also involved in the second space mission, and was prominently featured in The Right Stuff, so he's famous for more than just his sad death.

[illinoisredsox]

To be fair, yes, Grissom was a victim of that tragic fire, but he was also involved in the second space mission, and was prominently featured in The Right Stuff, so he's famous for more than just his sad death.

 

I know all that, though I’ll admit I have no memories of the Mercury program as it ended about the time I turned 5. I do remember him being part of the first manned Gemini mission though and obviously he would have been a part of the first Apollo flight had fate not intervened. I remember Virgil “Gus” Grissom very well.

 

My point to Old Red was merely that his attempt at humor using the nickname Gus for Vaughn Grissom was in very poor taste.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled Red Sox thread; I’ll hijack it no further.

[notin]

It never made sense and was stupid from day 1 as was the Mookie trade. Sure we can explain the reasons for the stupidity, but it is still stupidity.

 

No need. I had re-read a lot of this thread recently, and you were clearly on a very short list of people who objected that day. The bulk of the crowd here were frustrated with Sale repeatedly getting hurt, had little faith in his health, probably had little faith in his abilities as he hadn’t really displayed them much over the last four years, and many were at least glad the Sox tried to use his trade to get a good player rather than just dumping all his cash, which is something they’ve had chances to do.

 

I get why Breslow made it, assuming his logic agrees with my thoughts. But this one couldn’t have worked out much worse…

[Old Red]

I know all that, though I’ll admit I have no memories of the Mercury program as it ended about the time I turned 5. I do remember him being part of the first manned Gemini mission though and obviously he would have been a part of the first Apollo flight had fate not intervened. I remember Virgil “Gus” Grissom very well.

 

My point to Old Red was merely that his attempt at humor using the nickname Gus for Vaughn Grissom was in very poor taste.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled Red Sox thread; I’ll hijack it no further.

 

Calling Grissom Gus was no attempt at any humor. I have lots of nicknames for players. I know two brothers whose last name is Grissom, and they are Both called Gus. Only you found a problem in that Goose.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No need. I had re-read a lot of this thread recently, and you were clearly on a very short list of people who objected that day. The bulk of the crowd here were frustrated with Sale repeatedly getting hurt, had little faith in his health, probably had little faith in his abilities as he hadn’t really displayed them much over the last four years, and many were at least glad the Sox tried to use his trade to get a good player rather than just dumping all his cash, which is something they’ve had chances to do.

 

I get why Breslow made it, assuming his logic agrees with my thoughts. But this one couldn’t have worked out much worse…

 

It made total sense to me. The new CBO didn't need Theo's employee research firm to immediately move on from the past regime's biggest disappointment -- a guy another predecessor hitched the franchise wagon-train behind, but who couldn't take them anywhere with broken axles. No wishing or hoping or praying could repair the damage.

 

Sale's contract was welded onto the payroll, weighing it down, before Breslow convinced his boss to pay $17 million for an alien forklift to tractor beam the pitcher out of New England and deposit him in Atlanta.

 

(yes, these are mixed petit fours, and I recommend the lemon one with vanilla frosting)

[notin]

It made total sense to me. The new CBO didn't need Theo's employee research firm to immediately move on from the past regime's biggest disappointment -- a guy another predecessor hitched the franchise wagon-train behind, but who couldn't take them anywhere with broken axles. No wishing or hoping or praying could repair the damage.

 

Sale's contract was welded onto the payroll, weighing it down, before Breslow convinced his boss to pay $17 million for an alien forklift to tractor beam the pitcher out of New England and deposit him in Atlanta.

 

(yes, these are mixed petit fours, and I recommend the lemon one with vanilla frosting)

 

Exactly.

 

But wow has this flopped.

 

The guy who was supposed to at a minimum, supply IP, is out for the year.

 

The guy they didn’t think could supply IP is not only supplying them, but is doing so with an efficiency we haven’t seen out of him since 2018. Even if the Sox kept Sale, I would have thought the 2019 version was best case scenario.

 

The hot prospect has been sick, injured, absent, and ineffective when he does show up.

 

And the guys the hot prospect was supposed to replace each showed they are capable of carrying the team for short stretches.

 

 

And those complete and utter lack of upgrades only cost the team about $7.5mill!!

[moonslav59]

It made total sense to me. The new CBO didn't need Theo's employee research firm to immediately move on from the past regime's biggest disappointment -- a guy another predecessor hitched the franchise wagon-train behind, but who couldn't take them anywhere with broken axles. No wishing or hoping or praying could repair the damage.

 

Sale's contract was welded onto the payroll, weighing it down, before Breslow convinced his boss to pay $17 million for an alien forklift to tractor beam the pitcher out of New England and deposit him in Atlanta.

 

(yes, these are mixed petit fours, and I recommend the lemon one with vanilla frosting)

 

Nice post, as always.

 

It is possible for a deal to make sense, then flop.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not too often I enjoy seeing the Red Sox get burnt on a trade, but I'm enjoying this one, because I think they're getting burned for being too cheap and too clever.

[Bellhorn04]

Nice post, as always.

 

It is possible for a deal to make sense, then flop.

 

The real question is whether the Red Sox 2023-2024 offseason plan for the rotation made sense as a whole, the plan being to remove Chris Sale and add Lucas Giolito and do nothing else. If you were told before the offseason that was the entirety of the plan, what grade would you give it on a 1 to 10 scale, from terrible to awesome?

[Old Red]

It's not too often I enjoy seeing the Red Sox get burnt on a trade, but I'm enjoying this one, because I think they're getting burned for being too cheap and too clever.

 

The funny part too is that some on here just brushed off Gio’s bad second half collapse on personal problems, when most likely his arm was failing, and now the Red Sox on on the hoof for $38M for Gio, and $17M for Sale. Burnt to a Crisp.

[Bellhorn04]

To me the Johnny Obvious approach to Sale was to keep him and hope for the best. I firmly believe that's what a typical big market team would do in any case like this. The Red Sox seem determined to show they're the filthy rich guys that are gonna do things differently. And it keeps blowing up on them.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The funny part too is that some on here just brushed off Gio’s bad second half collapse on personal problems, when most likely his arm was failing, and now the Red Sox on on the hoof for $38M for Gio, and $17M for Sale. Burnt to a Crisp.

 

It was never funny to me, because Giolito's ERA was borderline 5 runs per 9 innings the past two seasons. And fans were supposed to be ok with the newest smartest CBO paying him twice the price as Kluber and Richards combined?

 

Obviously every free agent is a roll of the dice, but isn't that a problem with a front office regime that supposedly relies so much on the odds? Some can say we should trust the front office people who know more than we do, but fans can research stats, too.

 

And Gio's innings-eater rep did nothing for me -- even before he blew out his elbow. Who wants to leave a guy on the mound to lead the team in innings pitched if he also leads in giving up the most runs?

[Old Red]

It was never funny to me, because Giolito's ERA was borderline 5 runs per 9 innings the past two seasons. And fans were supposed to be ok with the newest smartest CBO paying him twice the price as Kluber and Richards combined?

 

Obviously every free agent is a roll of the dice, but isn't that a problem with a front office regime that supposedly relies so much on the odds? Some can say we should trust the front office people who know more than we do, but fans can research stats, too.

 

And Gio's innings-eater rep did nothing for me -- even before he blew out his elbow. Who wants to leave a guy on the mound to lead the team in innings pitched if he also leads in giving up the most runs?

Obviously Brez liked Gio pretty much.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Obviously Brez liked Gio pretty much.

 

There are some here convinced what Brez really liked was the price of Gio, compared to what it would cost for more coveted starting pitchers on that free agent market.

 

Maybe what he gave Giolito was all Breslow was allowed to spend on the rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

And the Giolito contract only gave the Red Sox one year of control over him. 2025 was a player option (which of course he will exercise now). Which led to early speculation they might trade him at the 2024 deadline if he was doing well. That's how our Red Sox operate these days.

[notin]

To me the Johnny Obvious approach to Sale was to keep him and hope for the best. I firmly believe that's what a typical big market team would do in any case like this. The Red Sox seem determined to show they're the filthy rich guys that are gonna do things differently. And it keeps blowing up on them.

 

 

Did you feel this way when the Sox dealt Price?

 

Not about Mookie, whom we all wanted. Just Price…

Edited July 1, 2024 by notin

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And the Giolito contract only gave the Red Sox one year of control over him. 2025 was a player option (which of course he will exercise now). Which led to early speculation they might trade him at the 2024 deadline if he was doing well. That's how our Red Sox operate these days.

 

Makes sense if they have zero plans to add reinforcements to the payroll this summer and go for it ... which will also confirm they have no intention to pay Cora what he's worth, after it doesn't end well in September.

 

Breslow will then bring in a new, young, energetic manager at entry-level pay -- a guy we will be told is the right man to lead the young bucks, someone they will all relate to (at least, when waiting in line at the bank to cash their checks on payday).

[notin]

The funny part too is that some on here just brushed off Gio’s bad second half collapse on personal problems, when most likely his arm was failing, and now the Red Sox on on the hoof for $38M for Gio, and $17M for Sale. Burnt to a Crisp.

 

 

A medical diagnosis!! We are all so glad you took time out of your busy schedule to examine Mr. Giolito…

Edited July 1, 2024 by notin

[notin]

It was never funny to me, because Giolito's ERA was borderline 5 runs per 9 innings the past two seasons. And fans were supposed to be ok with the newest smartest CBO paying him twice the price as Kluber and Richards combined?

 

Obviously every free agent is a roll of the dice, but isn't that a problem with a front office regime that supposedly relies so much on the odds? Some can say we should trust the front office people who know more than we do, but fans can research stats, too.

 

And Gio's innings-eater rep did nothing for me -- even before he blew out his elbow. Who wants to leave a guy on the mound to lead the team in innings pitched if he also leads in giving up the most runs?

 

I don’t know what they saw in Giolito, but the Angels and Guardians were not phased by his performance…

[Old Red]

A medical diagnosis!! We are all so glad you took time out of your busy schedule to examine Mr. Giolito…

 

Your welcome! Your diagnosis was he was going through a divorce, so how long did you examine Gio?