Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[mvp 78]

Now now, I'm trying to dial it back here, and get behind Reese a little...

 

If Reese can have good rapport with 2 pitchers, that'd be ideal for a platoon with Wong.

[mvp 78]

How's this: my son went a Sox game in Pittsburgh, and got there early to watch BP. He said McGuire put on a longball show, blasting them into the river, and only Devers hit more out.

 

Reese McGuirabelli.

[moonslav59]

If Reese can have good rapport with 2 pitchers, that'd be ideal for a platoon with Wong.

 

He already had better OPSA with more RP'ers than Wong, but Crawford is the only SP'er with better numbers with McGuire.

 

That could change with just one bad inning with Wong.

Edited April 26, 2023 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Whether you care about the CERA thing or not, it's pretty interesting to see how Cora and the team are gradually trying to figure out the best catching configuration, IMO.

[mvp 78]

Whether you care about the CERA thing or not, it's pretty interesting to see how Cora and the team are gradually trying to figure out the best catching configuration, IMO.

 

Catcher configuration matters. Strictly deciding who the best catcher is by looking at CERA makes no sense.

[Hugh2]

Whether you care about the CERA thing or not, it's pretty interesting to see how Cora and the team are gradually trying to figure out the best catching configuration, IMO.

 

eh, I mean are they? I suppose to some extent you have to be right here, as the season goes on I'm sure they will get a better feel for who fits better with who. But it's not like any team starts a catcher 158 games a year. Most back up catchers easily start 40-60 games a year so by them going back and forth seemingly every day without some getting maybe a few more starts isn't abnormal.

[Bellhorn04]

eh, I mean are they? I suppose to some extent you have to be right here, as the season goes on I'm sure they will get a better feel for who fits better with who. But it's not like any team starts a catcher 158 games a year. Most back up catchers easily start 40-60 games a year so by them going back and forth seemingly every day without some getting maybe a few more starts isn't abnormal.

 

Before this season nobody really knew who was going to get most of the starts, but I think the general assumption was that it would be McGuire.

[mvp 78]

Before this season nobody really knew who was going to get most of the starts, but I think the general assumption was that it would be McGuire.

 

It was a safe assumption McGuire was known as a good catcher and he had hit well with the Sox. Wong was a career MiLBer and wasn't even assured a roster spot. Sox brass liked Wong's receiving skills, but it would have been a big leap to assume that he'd win a starter's role in early April. There were people on here hoping for a McGuire/Alfaro rotation during ST!

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

That was a huge relief to see Kluber have a good outing, I'm skeptical it can be repeated. Sale's velocity seemed to be fine, his location was the problem as he is catching too much of the plate. I'm praying this is rust and can be corrected but I'm skeptical there too.

 

My problem is the 2 young starters, Bello and Whit, were supposed to give an aging staff a boost and that certainly has not happened.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[moonslav59]

Before this season nobody really knew who was going to get most of the starts, but I think the general assumption was that it would be McGuire.

 

I think the hope was McGuire for 3 SP'ers and Wong for 2. (Maybe 4-1)

[Nick]

Definite Starters for Now (thinking like Bloom)

1 Sale

2 Kluber

 

On the wings, only if Cora can't come up with the five

1 Paxton, probably will start in the pen, maybe the first option to join the 'five' when he completes the rehab assignments.

 

Will be a starter as long as he doesn't 'blow it'

1 G. Whitlock

 

Will be a starter as long as he's beaten out performance wise by 5 other pitchers

1 N Pivetta

 

Will be a starter as long as he's perceived to be less than Bell and Paxton, performance wise

1 Houck

 

Will be a starter if Houck falters and moves to the pen

1 Bello

 

It's a puzzle......or a cluster f***

[moonslav59]

Definite Starters for Now (thinking like Bloom)

1 Sale

2 Kluber

 

On the wings, only if Cora can't come up with the five

1 Paxton, probably will start in the pen, maybe the first option to join the 'five' when he completes the rehab assignments.

 

Will be a starter as long as he doesn't 'blow it'

1 G. Whitlock

 

Will be a starter as long as he's beaten out performance wise by 5 other pitchers

1 N Pivetta

 

Will be a starter as long as he's perceived to be less than Bell and Paxton, performance wise

1 Houck

 

Will be a starter if Houck falters and moves to the pen

1 Bello

 

It's a puzzle......or a cluster f***

 

It's nice having multiple options, when some are not doing well, but trial and error can get us too far behind, if it takes us too long to find the "right 5," if there even are 5 that can do well enough to bring our rotation near the middle of the pack.

 

We can probably make the playoffs with a rotation that ends up 15th to 18th.

[vegasbob]

"Did you ever have to make up your mind ?"

"Did you ever have to finally decide ?

" Go with the one, leave the other behind,"

"Did you ever have to make up your mind ?"

 

Bloom/Cora/Bush's favorite Lovin' Spoonful tune

[Nick]

"Did you ever have to make up your mind ?"

"Did you ever have to finally decide ?

" Go with the one, leave the other behind,"

"Did you ever have to make up your mind ?"

 

Bloom/Cora/Bush's favorite Lovin' Spoonful tune

 

Very good sir.

[mvp 78]

Definite Starters for Now (thinking like Bloom)

1 Sale

2 Kluber

 

On the wings, only if Cora can't come up with the five

1 Paxton, probably will start in the pen, maybe the first option to join the 'five' when he completes the rehab assignments.

 

Will be a starter as long as he doesn't 'blow it'

1 G. Whitlock

 

Will be a starter as long as he's beaten out performance wise by 5 other pitchers

1 N Pivetta

 

Will be a starter as long as he's perceived to be less than Bell and Paxton, performance wise

1 Houck

 

Will be a starter if Houck falters and moves to the pen

1 Bello

 

It's a puzzle......or a cluster f***

 

I agree with this. It's kind of hard to see where they are going with Paxton. A few months ago, I suggested that things could get very weird this season. We are now witnessing it. If Houck didn't succeed in the rotation, Bello would still be up. It's not a bad problem to have though. I think we may see a phantom DL spot for Sale/Kluber. Maybe poor performance moves someone to the pen? Paxton DFA?

[mvp 78]

It's nice having multiple options, when some are not doing well, but trial and error can get us too far behind, if it takes us too long to find the "right 5," if there even are 5 that can do well enough to bring our rotation near the middle of the pack.

 

We can probably make the playoffs with a rotation that ends up 15th to 18th.

 

There are multiple options, but some of the options are pretty terrible and they are basically stuck with them for an extended period (Sale, Kluber).

[moonslav59]

There are multiple options, but some of the options are pretty terrible and they are basically stuck with them for an extended period (Sale, Kluber).

 

Indeed. The question is, how long do we stick with a SP'er who is sucking, before we move to the next option?

 

It makes it harder when most of the SP'ers who are sucking have shown glimmers of competency or better, although for some, those times have been brief and only in maybe 2 games.

 

Several of our SP'ers are coming back from time off, including Sale who had a LONG time off. How much of their struggles can be chalked up to "regaining their groove," or deciding they just don't have it anymore?

 

Kluber has looked good in 2 of his 5 starts and okay in another (where 2 IRs were allowed to score.) IMO, he deserves at least 3-4 more starts, unless he is totally drilled every time.

 

IMO, Sale deserves a longer look, too.

 

Whitlock might have the best stuff of all our starters. He looked great in one start and shaky the others. No way I give up on him, quickly, as a starter.

 

Pivetta has earned a permanent slot. If we can keep him in the 5 slot, we'd be fine. Needing him to be our #2 is asking for trouble.

 

My thoughts are changing on Houck. I think he needs to stay starting until 5 others prove they can do better. That may never happen.

 

I think Bello wins a slot, later this year. He missed almost all of ST'ing and may just be rusty. I still think he is good enough to stick.

 

Crawford might deserve a few more chance.

 

Paxton is someone I will never count on, but let him make his way to getting a chance.

[mvp 78]

I wouldn't put Crawford back in the pen. The question is who do you squeeze out to put Bello back in. Wait for an injury? With Sale/Kluber/Whitlock, you may not have to wait until the second half. They have Pivetta for another year. Does that provide trade value to a small market team if they want to move him? Otherwise, I'm not sure you move him out for poor performance since he's really pitching at what is expected of him. Bello SHOULD be better than Pivetta in 2023, but there's no guarantee. Wait for Bello to really knock down that door and force a decision?

 

As long as Houck is dealing, Bello will most likely be in AAA in the short term unless things change with the health of Sale/Kluber/Whitlock/Pivetta.

[notin]

I agree with this. It's kind of hard to see where they are going with Paxton. A few months ago, I suggested that things could get very weird this season. We are now witnessing it. If Houck didn't succeed in the rotation, Bello would still be up. It's not a bad problem to have though. I think we may see a phantom DL spot for Sale/Kluber. Maybe poor performance moves someone to the pen? Paxton DFA?

 

Think they DFA Paxton after all the time and money invested? Plus he’s an experienced starting pitcher - which is their weakness. Kluber might have been DFAd if not for his last outing, but at least that would have been for performance.

 

I’d guess if Paxton returns, one of Houck, Whitlock or Pivetta goes to the pen until Paxton (or another SP, but probably Paxton) gets injured. Bernardino would get demoted and Ort somehow survives again…

[mvp 78]

Think they DFA Paxton after all the time and money invested? Plus he’s an experienced starting pitcher - which is their weakness. Kluber might have been DFAd if not for his last outing, but at least that would have been for performance.

 

I’d guess if Paxton returns, one of Houck, Whitlock or Pivetta goes to the pen until Paxton (or another SP, but probably Paxton) gets injured. Bernardino would get demoted and Ort somehow survives again…

 

I think there's a better chance Paxton gets DFA'd than Kluber.

 

Kluber just signed a one year deal (club option). He's had 2 good starts and 2 terrible starts.

 

Paxton is in AAA, still trying to rehab and has a WHIP over 2. While his velo is higher than Kluber's, he's pitching way worse than Kluber.

 

Who cares what they spent last season? Paxton is the definition of the sunk cost fallacy. Right now, he's only 4M. Did the D'Bags hold onto MadBum because of everything they invested in him and still have left to pay out or just decide enough was enough? Red Sox need to do what is best for the organization. That might not always be what is best for the checkbook!

[Bellhorn04]

And if Paxton pitches well next time out, of course, we'll feel differently about his chances.

 

This is the kind of exciting uncertainty Bloom brings.

[mvp 78]

And if Paxton pitches well next time out, of course, we'll feel differently about his chances.

 

This is the kind of exciting uncertainty Bloom brings.

 

Isn't it great!

[Old Red]

Whitlock on IL with Ulnar Neuritis! Bello back up.

[Hugh2]

Ulnar Neuritis can be a very non-serious OR very serious injury depending on how severe it is.

 

Other players with this condition have missed only 1-2 weeks, with others it seems to be a precursor to TJS.

 

Hopefully, they caught it early.

 

This is exactly why in baseball you don't "Tough guy" it and play through any kind of discomfort or injury.

[redsoxrules]

Whitlock on IL with Ulnar Neuritis! Bello back up.

 

He should have been left in the pen. Ever since they put him as a starter it's been nothing but problems health wise

[Old Red]

He should have been left in the pen. Ever since they put him as a starter it's been nothing but problems health wise

 

Good point. It seems the only time Whitlock has been healthy with the Sox was his first year when he was strictly relief going 2-3 innings at a time, and getting 3 days, or so between appearances.

[Nick]

Nick P just sucks. Oh I forgot. He is a very good #5 starter. Sox with 4 of them.

[Nick]

Thank God Bello is going tomorrow.

[Bellhorn04]

After 27 games the Sox rotation has a 6.44 ERA and the pen has a 3.53 ERA.

 

Maybe we should have the relievers start and the starters relieve.

[moonslav59]

After 27 games the Sox rotation has a 6.44 ERA and the pen has a 3.53 ERA.

 

Maybe we should have the relievers start and the starters relieve.

 

Certainly, Crawford could start. I'm not sure about messing with Winckowski's success as a 2 inning guy, but we can't go much longer, as is.

 

The SP'er depth on the farm has not stepped it up (Mata, Walter and Murphy have looked unimpressive in AAA.)

Paxton is looking more and more like a non-factor, but maybe time will change that. (I'm not hopeful, there.)

 

How many more starts do these guys get, before we think about a change?

 

Kluber looked okay in 2 of his 5 starts, and did not look bad in another, where Bleier allowed 2 IRs to score. He will likely get several more starts.

Sale is hard to figure. Sometimes command is the last thing a pitcher recovers, after a long time away from pitching, but how many more starts can we wait and wait? Could using him in the pen, help him regain?

Whitlock on the IL hurts like hell, even though he was not doing all that well.

Pivetta is not doing what I hoped he could do. I don't see him being demoted from the rotation ahead of these others, though.

Bello needs to shine, and soon!

 

We've gone way too long on addressing rotation upgrades. We've kept adding #3's and #4's hoping they'd pitch like #2's. You get what you pay for, and we are seeing it, now.