Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[Bellhorn04]

We've gone way too long on addressing rotation upgrades. We've kept adding #3's and #4's hoping they'd pitch like #2's. You get what you pay for, and we are seeing it, now.

 

Yep, they went with a bunch of hopes and prayers. The results are ugly and they could very well get uglier.

[moonslav59]

Yep, they went with a bunch of hopes and prayers. The results are ugly and they could very well get uglier.

 

I find it hard to think it can get uglier than 6.44, but I suppose it can.

 

I've not given up hope that 2-3 from Kluber, Sale, Whitlock and yes even Paxton can improve enough to join Houck, Pivetta and maybe Bello/Crawford to get the rotation to a 4.50 ERA from May 1 to the end.

 

If we do that, we should make the playoffs with this offense, and the promises of comebacks by Story, Duvall and Mondesi, to a lesser extent.

[notin]

Certainly, Crawford could start. I'm not sure about messing with Winckowski's success as a 2 inning guy, but we can't go much longer, as is.

 

The SP'er depth on the farm has not stepped it up (Mata, Walter and Murphy have looked unimpressive in AAA.)

Paxton is looking more and more like a non-factor, but maybe time will change that. (I'm not hopeful, there.)

 

How many more starts do these guys get, before we think about a change?

 

Kluber looked okay in 2 of his 5 starts, and did not look bad in another, where Bleier allowed 2 IRs to score. He will likely get several more starts.

Sale is hard to figure. Sometimes command is the last thing a pitcher recovers, after a long time away from pitching, but how many more starts can we wait and wait? Could using him in the pen, help him regain?

Whitlock on the IL hurts like hell, even though he was not doing all that well.

Pivetta is not doing what I hoped he could do. I don't see him being demoted from the rotation ahead of these others, though.

Bello needs to shine, and soon!

 

We've gone way too long on addressing rotation upgrades. We've kept adding #3's and #4's hoping they'd pitch like #2's. You get what you pay for, and we are seeing it, now.

 

 

 

The Sox have a $29mill number one starter totaling at about 1/6 of the total payroll. He just needs to pitch like one.

 

The good news is he has been throwing 93-94 mph and is probably a but gusty after 3 years of inactivity. However he is still 3 years older…

[moonslav59]

The Sox have a $29mill number one starter totaling at about 1/6 of the total payroll. He just needs to pitch like one.

 

The good news is he has been throwing 93-94 mph and is probably a but gusty after 3 years of inactivity. However he is still 3 years older…

 

Well, the bad news is, he used to throw 95-97 pretty often.

 

I'll give him more time to improve his control, but we can't count on him pitching like an ace, again. We need to plan on adding an ace or two solid #2's, like yesterday.

 

If he ends up pitching like an ace again, then great, but should never have been the plan- not that I think it was.

 

I think Sox brass hoped he could pitch like a solid #3, along with Kluber, and that Whitlock and Bello could pitch like solid #2's. We'd have a lot more wins, if all these guys just pitched like #4's and maybe even 5's, instead of #8's.

[notin]

Well, the bad news is, he used to throw 95-97 pretty often.

 

I'll give him more time to improve his control, but we can't count on him pitching like an ace, again. We need to plan on adding an ace or two solid #2's, like yesterday.

 

If he ends up pitching like an ace again, then great, but should never have been the plan- not that I think it was.

 

I think Sox brass hoped he could pitch like a solid #3, along with Kluber, and that Whitlock and Bello could pitch like solid #2's. We'd have a lot more wins, if all these guys just pitched like #4's and maybe even 5's, instead of #8's.

 

Sale is throwing 93.7 mph. He threw around or less than this in 2016 (5.3 fWAR) and 2014 (5.0 fWAR). While he is unlikely to reach those WAR values again (mostly due to not enough IP), at least we know he can be effective throwing this hard.

 

Kluber is down to 88mph, down from 88.9 mph last year. While he did post 3.0 fWAR last year, he’s nearly 1 full mile per hour slower. Also that is the only other sub-90 season in his career. Unlike Sale, this is uncharted territory for Kluber. I expect more klunkers along the way…

[moonslav59]

Sale is throwing 93.7 mph. He threw around or less than this in 2016 (5.3 fWAR) and 2014 (5.0 fWAR). While he is unlikely to reach those WAR values again (mostly due to not enough IP), at least we know he can be effective throwing this hard.

 

Kluber is down to 88mph, down from 88.9 mph last year. While he did post 3.0 fWAR last year, he’s nearly 1 full mile per hour slower. Also that is the only other sub-90 season in his career. Unlike Sale, this is uncharted territory for Kluber. I expect more klunkers along the way…

 

I'm just not overjoyed Sale is throwing near 94.

[Hugh2]

94 from the left side is fine. If his command is on and he’s not tipping his pitches I expect much better results from Sale today

[Bellhorn04]

94 from the left side is fine. If his command is on and he’s not tipping his pitches I expect much better results from Sale today

 

That would be encouraging. He's going against Logan Allen.

[Hugh2]

That would be encouraging. He's going against Logan Allen.

 

The Logan Allen we drafted? Who did we trade him for again?

 

But yeah, todays start is big. If Sale looks like he did two starts ago then we can still be hopeful he’s back and just has to work on being more consistent. If he has a horrible start then it will look like we should have very low expectations

[Bellhorn04]

The Logan Allen we drafted? Who did we trade him for again?

 

That's him. He was part of the Kimbrel trade and has been much-discussed here. The scuttlebutt was that he was a "throw-in" by DD and part of why it was an overpay.

[notin]

That's him. He was part of the Kimbrel trade and has been much-discussed here. The scuttlebutt was that he was a "throw-in" by DD and part of why it was an overpay.

 

 

Does this scuttlebutt exist anywhere besides this one Internet forum?

[Bellhorn04]

Does this scuttlebutt exist anywhere besides this one Internet forum?

 

I would suggest directing that question to mvp tomorrow. He has good intel on that, I think.

[Hugh2]

Paxton looking good thru two. Wonder if they gave him his whole arsenal back or if it’s something else. Maybe a s*** lineup.?

[Bellhorn04]

Paxton looking good thru two. Wonder if they gave him his whole arsenal back or if it’s something else. Maybe a s*** lineup.?

 

Positive thoughts!

[Hugh2]

Paxton 5.1 innings pitched. 2 hits, 1 BB, 0 runs, 8 K’s

[notin]

Paxton 5.1 innings pitched. 2 hits, 1 BB, 0 runs, 8 K’s

 

Pull him!! Before he pulls something!!

[moonslav59]

Paxton 5.1 innings pitched. 2 hits, 1 BB, 0 runs, 8 K’s

 

Maybe he's done "working on" certain pitches and just let it rip, today.

[dgalehouse]

That's him. He was part of the Kimbrel trade and has been much-discussed here. The scuttlebutt was that he was a "throw-in" by DD and part of why it was an overpay.

 

No. This is a different Logan Allen. The Logan Allen we traded flopped and is somewhere in the Colorado organization now.

[Hugh2]

Maybe he's done "working on" certain pitches and just let it rip, today.

 

It would be interesting if that was the case. I know it was in one of his starts, but I have no ideal about his last.

 

If it was! It’s just another example of why you shouldn’t just scout the box score.

[moonslav59]

It would be interesting if that was the case. I know it was in one of his starts, but I have no ideal about his last.

 

If it was! It’s just another example of why you shouldn’t just scout the box score.

 

I'm guessing, if he has one more good start, he'll start rumbling about his rehab time being up, assuming he isn't already.

[mvp 78]

That's him. He was part of the Kimbrel trade and has been much-discussed here. The scuttlebutt was that he was a "throw-in" by DD and part of why it was an overpay.

 

As others have stated, Logan Allen 1 was a throw in on the Kimbrell trade. This is Logan Allen 2, an improved version. This one is only 24.

[moonslav59]

As others have stated, Logan Allen 1 was a throw in on the Kimbrell trade. This is Logan Allen 2, an improved version. This one is only 24.

 

Thanks. We all needed to hear this one more time.

[notin]

As others have stated, Logan Allen 1 was a throw in on the Kimbrell trade. This is Logan Allen 2, an improved version. This one is only 24.

 

Both pitch(ed) for Cleveland

Both pitch left-handed. Both bat right handed.

Both are from Florida.

 

I can see the confusion…

[moonslav59]

Both pitch(ed) for Cleveland

Both pitch left-handed. Both bat right handed.

Both are from Florida.

 

I can see the confusion…

 

And both are currently breathing.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The most positive thing about Sale today isn't his stats or that he beat the below-average hitting Guardians...

 

... it's that when the game was on the line, Sale toughed it out, came up huge and left the tying run on third. He left it all out there, hit 98 on one pitch on the NESN screen, jammed Bell into tapping a one-stitch heater and got Gonzalez on a grounder to first. Then he even came back out in the 7th to get one more lefty.

 

Hopefully, he didn't hurt himself -- and I'm not joking. Sale may not be able to baffle the best hitters anymore, but today he showed he still has the balls to compete and contribute big time.

[notin]

And both are currently breathing.

 

You sure? MVP said one of them was in Colorado…

[notin]

As others have stated, Logan Allen 1 was a throw in on the Kimbrell trade. This is Logan Allen 2, an improved version. This one is only 24.

 

The other one is a much older 25…

[moonslav59]

Fun series with the Jays:

 

MON Kluber v Berrios

 

TUE Kikuchi v Houck

 

WED TBD v Pivetta

 

THU TBD v Bello

[Larry Cook]

Fun series with the Jays:

 

MON Kluber v Berrios

 

TUE Kikuchi v Houck

 

WED TBD v Pivetta

 

THU TBD v Bello

 

Why is kluber listed on the visitor side on Monday?

[moonslav59]

Why is kluber listed on the visitor side on Monday?

 

Guess