A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Old Red]

The funny thing is that when Kike left, people started to realize the rest of the defense wasn't very good either.

 

Cora had to be told to get Kike to hell off SS.

[Bellhorn04]

No, this is a ******** narrative being pushed right now. 4 years is still a long time. Ben and Chaim both failed epically for 6 years. DD did an amazing job, but ran out the string. He had no more tools in his belt once the farm and money ran dry. Sox need someone in between Chaim and DD. It's still a marquee job.

 

Not really buying all that. DD didn't even get a chance to fail, unless you consider 2019 a disaster. The 2021 team was mostly residual from DD.

 

"Someone in between Chaim and DD". Yeah sure, that's cake.

[Hugh2]

Cora had to be told to get Kike to hell off SS.

 

And yet Kike has been better in LA on both sides of the ball.

 

It's amazing how a player can change when he's used right. This is what happens when you don't get a starting SS and throw the job on a guy like Kike.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora had to be told to get Kike to hell off SS.

 

It doesn't matter, though. We made a big deal out of it, but it's not like the team improved a lot after Kike left.

[Old Red]

Yes, IMO, the amount of games lost by our defense and baserunning was a lot more than some think it was.

 

I'm not sure that should be "on Cora." These guys are grown men who have been taught the fundamentals, for years. If they haven't learned them, by now, I'm not sure what ML manager knows the secret to teaching them and getting instant results in one season.

 

It's not like Cora had 4 years to work with most of our major blunderers.

I’m not blaming Cora outside of leaving Kike at SS way too long. Reports were that Cora was out there himself working with the guys on D.

[Old Red]

It doesn't matter, though. We made a big deal out of it, but it's not like the team improved a lot after Kike left.

 

Leading the league in errors was, and is a BIG deal.

[Bellhorn04]

Leading the league in errors was, and is a BIG deal.

 

I get that, but like I say, trading him didn't make us play any better.

[Hugh2]

I get that, but like I say, trading him didn't make us play any better.

 

Kike was never the problem. The problem was the fact that he had to be your starting SS because the Sox didn't get a real replacement for Bogaerts.

[Bellhorn04]

Kike was never the problem. The problem was the fact that he had to be your starting SS because the Sox didn't get a real replacement for Bogaerts.

 

That plus Story being injured.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Leading the league in errors was, and is a BIG deal.

 

Did Cora suddenly become a lousy manager of defense, an unsound coach of fielding? Does that even happen to veteran instructors?

 

Or is it the actual players on the roster that lead the league in Es...

 

2018 Red Sox: tied for 3rd-best, least team Es in AL

2019 Red Sox: 6th in team Es

 

Chaim takes over full seasons

2020: 2nd MOST Es

2021: MOST Es AL

2022: one less E than AL avg (but 2nd worst def. efficiency)

2023: MOST Es, WORST def. efficiency

[Hugh2]

That plus Story being injured.

 

That's right I forgot about that, but Story was your 2nd, who did they get to replace him at 2nd when they decided to move him over? Chang? Arroyo? when you look at the up the middle position together SS/2B they obviously left a huge gaping hole there to start the season.

[sk7326]

Cora had to be told to get Kike to hell off SS.

 

Some veteran loyalty - and really, what was the other obvious option. The thing with Kike of course was - if he had hit, they probably would have kept him there.

[Randy Red Sox]

That plus Story being injured.

 

yeah but it was well know before the season that Story would miss most of the season and he did nothing to replace him even though there were several low cost options available.

[Dipre]

Kike was never the problem. The problem was the fact that he had to be your starting SS because the Sox didn't get a real replacement for Bogaerts.

 

Chang was fine as a replacement, but counting on anything from Mondesi was foolish.

[mvp 78]

Chang was fine as a replacement, but counting on anything from Mondesi was foolish.

 

Even if he was already healthy, it was probably foolish. However, hoping for an injured player to cover for another injured player is just dumb.

[a700hitter]

The 2023 season was doomed before it even got started. To into the season with a starting rotation of a frail James Paxton, as it turned out again a fragile Garrett Whitlock, and the fragility of the king of frail himself Frail Sale. Throw in old man Kluber, and this group was supposed to get you through the season? Should have been not only no, but hell no, but not for Chaim Bloom. The when Story went down before the season even started, or spring training for that matter instead of going out, and getting a regular SS the Red Sox went with the $10M man, and that was a total disaster, which lasted for a very long time. Lost 3 of the starters, and for weeks the Red Sox went with openers, and BP games. Forget about the trade deadline, which Bloom did pick up a 2B, but the pitching staff was in shambles by that point, and because the Red Sox had 3 injured pitchers coming back who all were on pitch counts Bloom did nothing. I don’t know who sold Henry on the bill of goods of hiring Bloom, but he should be fired too. If JH thought Bloom was going to come in, and build up the farm, cut the payroll, and most importantly keep on winning he was surely fooled. Boston is not Tampa. Tampa has kept on winning without Bloom, and Boston kept on losing with Bloom. Must of picked the wrong nerd in the Tampa nerd room. I said from day 1 Bloom was a BAD signing, and it was.

He went north without a starting rotation. The entire season our rotation was TBA. That is a recipe for losing.

[Old Red]

He went north without a starting rotation. The entire season our rotation was TBA. That is a recipe for losing.

 

And losing they did. Hopefully they throw that recipe away, so it can’t be used again.

[Hugh2]

Chang was fine as a replacement, but counting on anything from Mondesi was foolish.

 

As a starting second baseman? the guy never played more than 250 at bats in his life and put up a .693 OPS that year.

 

THat's not a guy who instills confidence as a starter. Arroyo was their opening-day starting 2nd baseman.

[Hugh2]

That plus Story being injured.

 

the whole up the middle position has been cursed this year.

 

We had two massive forces working against us.

 

1. More injuries than are natural, it just felt like mi's kept getting injured on this team.

 

2. Lack of starting options. They failed to resign and then replace Bogaerts.

[Nick]

I am more interested in bundling $5-$10M contracts and signing a higher level free agents.

 

Sure there are some risks.

 

I think one thing Bloom has done is take care of team controlled position players.

 

New GM obviously has to address our starting pitching.

[mvp 78]

the whole up the middle position has been cursed this year.

 

We had two massive forces working against us.

 

1. More injuries than are natural, it just felt like mi's kept getting injured on this team.

 

2. Lack of starting options. They failed to resign and then replace Bogaerts.

 

Not cursed, just bad roster management.

[Dipre]

Not cursed, just bad roster management.

 

Combination of both. But I've said since the beginning of the season, that this roster lacked coherence and cohesion.

[mvp 78]

Combination of both. But I've said since the beginning of the season, that this roster lacked coherence and cohesion.

 

Chang injury - curse?

Kiké move to SS - poor roster mgmt (leave in CF)

Mondesi injury - poor roster mgmt

Story injury - poor roster mgmt (signed a discounted contract due to Story’s injury in COL)

[Old Red]

Chang injury - curse?

Kiké move to SS - poor roster mgmt (leave in CF)

Mondesi injury - poor roster mgmt

Story injury - poor roster mgmt (signed a discounted contract due to Story’s injury in COL)

Resigning Kike for $10M was bad roster management. Leave in CF? He couldn’t hit. Duvall was a better option for the OF although not necessarily CF.

[mvp 78]

Resigning Kike for $10M was bad roster management. Leave in CF? He couldn’t hit. Duvall was a better option for the OF although not necessarily CF.

 

Can’t hit, but Kiké sure could field in CF. Defense up the middle matters. Hold your nose for one year until Rafaela was ready. That’s why I thought they re-signed him.

[Old Red]

Can’t hit, but Kiké sure could field in CF. Defense up the middle matters. Hold your nose for one year until Rafaela was ready. That’s why I thought they re-signed him.

I know D up the middle matters, but Kike at SS, Arroyo at 2B, and Duvall in CF was not good D up the middle. When Kike was resigned i don’t know if putting him back was the plan, or not, or putting him at 2B. I think the plan already at that point was to put Story at SS no matter what the spinners, and grinners were saying about wanting Bogey back. JBJ sure could field in CF too, but you still have to hit more than he, or Kike did.

[Hugh2]

SIgning Kike for 10 mil wasn't a problem, not signing a stop gap SS was the problem.

 

Just like bringing JBJ back wasn't a problem, the problem was not having him as your 4th outfielder because you failed to sign a RF/CF

 

Taking a chance in the dumpster on a guy like Kluber wasn't the problem, the problem was making that your premier rotation move and failing to build a rotation overall.

 

Many of Blooms moves in a vacuum weren't bad at face value, and even the ones that did not work out because hey, even the best gms make bad moves. Even the best guys sign guys like Kluber ALL the time, they just make other moves on top of that. They're not relying on these small moves to build their team.

 

This was ultimately Bloom's downfall, he never did enough, he was too principled and in the end it bit him in the ass. I know believe these reports last offseason about theme seriously bidding on all these guys. I think he was just outbid again and again.

 

Sox obviously need to go out and get pitching, and Bloom just wasn't going to do that.

[moonslav59]

SIgning Kike for 10 mil wasn't a problem, not signing a stop gap SS was the problem.

 

Just like bringing JBJ back wasn't a problem, the problem was not having him as your 4th outfielder because you failed to sign a RF/CF

 

Taking a chance in the dumpster on a guy like Kluber wasn't the problem, the problem was making that your premier rotation move and failing to build a rotation overall.

 

Many of Blooms moves in a vacuum weren't bad at face value, and even the ones that did not work out because hey, even the best gms make bad moves. Even the best guys sign guys like Kluber ALL the time, they just make other moves on top of that. They're not relying on these small moves to build their team.

 

This was ultimately Bloom's downfall, he never did enough, he was too principled and in the end it bit him in the ass. I know believe these reports last offseason about theme seriously bidding on all these guys. I think he was just outbid again and again.

 

Sox obviously need to go out and get pitching, and Bloom just wasn't going to do that.

 

Kike obviously only hits when he plays CF and is healthy. (I do think as a 2Bman would not have been a bad plan.)

Had Mondesi been ready in May as expected, asking Kike, Yang and DHam to handle SS for 3-6 weeks was not necessarily a bad plan, except in hindsight. Yang got hurt and Mondesi stayed hurt.

Reyes was acquired a few weeks too late, and then Cora unexplainably still played Kike at SS, too often.

 

Taking JBJ back was a major blunder. There is no sugar coating that one, IMO.

 

I agree 100% on Kluber. I don't recall many here not liking the signing- only that it was all Bloom did to address the rotation.

 

Bloom's inability to finish the deal looks like one of his major deals.

 

Not extending Bogey, if he was indeed, extendable, at any point.

Not bringing back Nate, despite offering him more than what he took from TEX. (Reportedly, he pulled the offer.)

Not one upping the Rays on Eflin.

Not pulling the trigger on some trades that were inches from being completed.

 

My belief all along has been that the organization decided not to go large and long on a solid pitcher, and that is usually what is needed to get a good one, until we felt the "timing" was right, so I'm not sure Bloom deserves all the blame for the pitching, but even at $7-10M/1, I think he should have done better.

 

Wacha and Hill were okay.

Perez, Perez II, Richards and Kluber brought us next to nothing for about $32M, total.

 

[mvp 78]

SIgning Kike for 10 mil wasn't a problem, not signing a stop gap SS was the problem.

 

Just like bringing JBJ back wasn't a problem, the problem was not having him as your 4th outfielder because you failed to sign a RF/CF

 

Taking a chance in the dumpster on a guy like Kluber wasn't the problem, the problem was making that your premier rotation move and failing to build a rotation overall.

 

Many of Blooms moves in a vacuum weren't bad at face value, and even the ones that did not work out because hey, even the best gms make bad moves. Even the best guys sign guys like Kluber ALL the time, they just make other moves on top of that. They're not relying on these small moves to build their team.

 

This was ultimately Bloom's downfall, he never did enough, he was too principled and in the end it bit him in the ass. I know believe these reports last offseason about theme seriously bidding on all these guys. I think he was just outbid again and again.

 

Sox obviously need to go out and get pitching, and Bloom just wasn't going to do that.

 

Agree with all of this. Bloom just couldn’t complete the circle.

[Hugh2]

Agree with all of this. Bloom just couldn’t complete the circle.

 

Someone once said this and I honestly can't remember if it was a poster on the soxprospects thread or if Ian said it on the podcast but it really resonated with me and I've adopted it as my own.

 

If you're the most rational guy in the room every time, you will be outbid every time.

 

Bloom has a value system, and he sticks to his guns, and that is commendable, but his inability to EVER leave that comfort zone is what led to some terrible roster decisions....or rather some roster indecisions that have really hurt this teams performance the past two years.

 

Henry is, or at least I HOPE he is going to hire someone who has the fortitude to ensure the Sox get a couple of these top tier free agents this winter. No team gets all the top guys, even the Mets and Dodgers but the Sox used to always be players and get their guy every once in a while. Now it just doesn't happen. That has to change.