A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Maxbialystock]

The only 2 who fall into that category are Price and Sale.

 

Hah! If you mean 5, 6, or 7 X $25M, you are probably right. Clever me for pouncing on those numbers, which came from moonslav, not me.

 

But your real point, a valid one, is that the price of good starters has steadily risen.

 

I remain skeptical, however, that money buys success because it hasn't this year.

 

The top 3 payrolls--Mets, Yankees, and Padres--are not going to the postseason, let alone win their divisions. The 4th payroll, the Rangers, are fading and could lose out for a wild card. 5th, the Phillies, look like a good bet for a wild card, but are well behind the Braves for the NL East.

 

Meanwhile, the 27th and 28th payrolls--the Rays and the Orioles--have the best records in the AL. Maybe the Orioles are lucky with all those good young players, but the Rays low payrolls have produced competitive teams going back to at least 2008.

[moonslav59]

Agree with you and mvp 78. Leave Devers at 3b and Casas at 1b--right now the two best Sox infield bats by a wide margin. Their defense ain't great, but it's good enough. It's their bats that count.

 

Speaking of which, I'm surprised there has been so little discussion about Story's terrible bat. His defense, I hasten to add, has been pretty doggone good, but the Sox ain't paying him those big bucks to play freaking defense. Good defensive SS's are a dime a dozen.

 

He has been discussed, and his sample size is moving away from being too small.

 

I think many want to see how his bat looks, next year, before panicking.

 

BTW, moving Devers to 1B and Casas to DH keeps both bats, so they still count.

 

IMO, moving Yoshi to DH makes more sense, especially since we have some young OF'er trying to squeeze their way into the line-up, and we have no back up 3Bman or 1Bman that are ML ready in the system.

 

I'd keep Devers at 3B and Casas at 1B, too, but I would like to see devers get some practice at 1B. When Casas sits, and we know Cora will sit him 15 games, we could play Devers at 1B and Urias at 3B (Reyes at 2B.)

 

[moonslav59]

Agree, but too often the dice seem to be loaded against the Sox so-called brain trust with DD being just the latest example of over-spending for over-taxed arms.

 

So, based on the Price signing 8 years ago, the dice are loaded against us more than other teams?

 

Hell, some people still view the Price signing as a plus, due to the 2018 ring. One poster even thinks he had plus trade value when dealt to LAD.

 

Our last FA signings have been about on par with most teams- you get what you pay for.

 

The Story signing has not looked good. The Yoshi signing might be middle of the pack in success and failures on contracts like his.

 

JD was the next most recent big deal, and that was a nice "dice roll."

 

Other than those three deals after Price, all our other signings have been at or below Jansen's $16M x 2 deal.

[Maxbialystock]

He has been discussed, and his sample size is moving away from being too small.

 

I think many want to see how his bat looks, next year, before panicking.

 

BTW, moving Devers to 1B and Casas to DH keeps both bats, so they still count.

 

IMO, moving Yoshi to DH makes more sense, especially since we have some young OF'er trying to squeeze their way into the line-up, and we have no back up 3Bman or 1Bman that are ML ready in the system.

 

I'd keep Devers at 3B and Casas at 1B, too, but I would like to see devers get some practice at 1B. When Casas sits, and we know Cora will sit him 15 games, we could play Devers at 1B and Urias at 3B (Reyes at 2B.)

 

 

I like a flexible DH, basically what the Sox have had this year. But I agree Yoshida should get most of the games--to make way for good bats/gloves coming up (Duran, Rafaela, etc). Unlike you, I'm not a big fan of Refsnyder because his overall OPS is below .700.

 

I'm not sure I agree with moving Devers to 1b, part-time or full-time, because I think he is fine where he is, an excellent bat who is good enough at 3b. Same goes for Casas at 1b--good bat, good enough glove (especially on throws to 1b).

 

The thing I don't like about losing Duvall and Turner, which I now think is likely, is that both are good righty bats, which I think every Sox team must have. This makes Story doubly important--and concerning.

[moonslav59]

Sale was the last blockbuster Red Sox trade that Boston actually won: Dec. 16, 2016.

 

There has only been one blockbuster trade since Sale: 1 year of Betts plus half-Price for Dugo, Wong and Downs.

 

BTW, on next levels trades, what are the current grades for....

 

Pivetta for Workman & Hembree

Wink, Gambrell & Franchy for 2 yrs of Beni (.774 in 928 PAs)

JBJ & DHam for 1 year of Renfroe

Abreu & EValdez for Vaz

[moonslav59]

I like a flexible DH, basically what the Sox have had this year. But I agree Yoshida should get most of the games--to make way for good bats/gloves coming up (Duran, Rafaela, etc). Unlike you, I'm not a big fan of Refsnyder because his overall OPS is below .700.

 

I'm not sure I agree with moving Devers to 1b, part-time or full-time, because I think he is fine where he is, an excellent bat who is good enough at 3b. Same goes for Casas at 1b--good bat, good enough glove (especially on throws to 1b).

 

The thing I don't like about losing Duvall and Turner, which I now think is likely, is that both are good righty bats, which I think every Sox team must have. This makes Story doubly important--and concerning.

 

Devers and casas have been clear below average defenders. I'm not sure why keeping their bats while improving the D is not something you want to even consider.

 

Someone has to back up Casas at 1B, next year. I doubt JT comes back, and if he does, it means Yoshi plays LF much more than he should.

 

I'd try Devers at 1B for 10-15 games in 2024. Watch to see if Casas can improve his D at 1B, or if Devers stays the same or gets worse at 3B, then maybe think of a more permanent move for both.

 

I hate to force Casas to DH before he has a chance to show he can get better at 1B. Maybe watching Bobby Dee get worse has poisoned my mind.

 

I like a flex DH, too, especially with Cora's rest mania ideas.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There has only been one blockbuster trade since Sale: 1 year of Betts plus half-Price for Dugo, Wong and Downs.

 

BTW, on next levels trades, what are the current grades for....

 

Pivetta for Workman & Hembree

Wink, Gambrell & Franchy for 2 yrs of Beni (.774 in 928 PAs)

JBJ & DHam for 1 year of Renfroe

Abreu & EValdez for Vaz

 

A lot of Larry Andersons, but no Bagwells.

 

Pivetta has the most value so far, in that he has opened, closed (in the playoffs), bulked, and #5ed the rotation. Wink's had a decent season and Gambrell is finally getting enough sun and water, which may eventually win a deal for a big leaguer who once had better numbers (like most did when the MLB played juiceball). Abreu looks like he can play, but can he stay?

[moonslav59]

A lot of Larry Andersons, but no Bagwells.

 

Pivetta has the most value so far, in that he has opened, closed (in the playoffs), bulked, and #5ed the rotation. Wink's had a decent season and Gambrell is finally getting enough sun and water, which may eventually win a deal for a big leaguer who once had better numbers (like most did when the MLB played juiceball). Abreu looks like he can play, but can he stay?

 

I agree, but if you lump all those deals together, we basically traded 1 year of Renfroe and 2 years of Beni for 4 yrs of Pivetta, 5 years of Wink and whatever we get from Abreu, Gambrell and others.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I agree, but if you lump all those deals together, we basically traded 1 year of Renfroe and 2 years of Beni for 4 yrs of Pivetta, 5 years of Wink and whatever we get from Abreu, Gambrell and others.

 

The thing about the years of control that some forget is that their best years just might be now. Athletic bodies mainly age wastefully, unless enhanced.

[Old Red]

He has been discussed, and his sample size is moving away from being too small.

 

I think many want to see how his bat looks, next year, before panicking.

 

BTW, moving Devers to 1B and Casas to DH keeps both bats, so they still count.

 

IMO, moving Yoshi to DH makes more sense, especially since we have some young OF'er trying to squeeze their way into the line-up, and we have no back up 3Bman or 1Bman that are ML ready in the system.

 

I'd keep Devers at 3B and Casas at 1B, too, but I would like to see devers get some practice at 1B. When Casas sits, and we know Cora will sit him 15 games, we could play Devers at 1B and Urias at 3B (Reyes at 2B.)

 

I don’t see any reason to play Raffy any games at 1B unless it’s tried as a permanent move. If he’s at 3B he needs all the work there that he can get, so moving him to 1B for 15 games, or so doesn’t make sense. I don’t believe you do practice in a regular season game. ST maybe.

[mvp 78]

I don’t see any reason to play Raffy any games at 1B unless it’s tried as a permanent move. If he’s at 3B he needs all the work there that he can get, so moving him to 1B for 15 games, or so doesn’t make sense. I don’t believe you do practice in a regular season game. ST maybe.

 

He's wanted to move Devers to 1b since 2017 or so.

[Old Red]

He's wanted to move Devers to 1b since 2017 or so.

 

I just don’t see the sense of moving him there for 15 games, or so just for practice.

[dgalehouse]

Too much talk about Devers. He is the best player on the team. He is not the problem. The problem is the starting pitching and the failure to adequately replace Bogaerts at shortstop. To me, that was/is obvious. I think Bloom knew that was the problem , but he just did not have the right answers. Obviously, Kluber, Paxton and Kike were not the solution. Time to try again.

[Old Red]

Too much talk about Devers. He is the best player on the team. He is not the problem. The problem is the starting pitching and the failure to adequately replace Bogaerts at shortstop. To me, that was/is obvious. I think Bloom knew that was the problem , but he just did not have the right answers. Obviously, Kluber, Paxton and Kike were not the solution. Time to try again.

Devers is the best player on the team, but his Errors at 3B has been a problem.

[mvp 78]

Devers is the best player on the team, but his Errors at 3B has been a problem.

 

Yes, "a problem" but not "the problem."

[moonslav59]

The thing about the years of control that some forget is that their best years just might be now. Athletic bodies mainly age wastefully, unless enhanced.

 

Usually, yes, but with Beni, he never repeated what he did before the trade.

 

Renfroe was a great get by Bloom, and he's not the only GM in MLB to let him go after one year.

 

Pivetta will not get better, in all likelihood. Wink might be a "flash."

 

Abreu and Gambrell are not shoe-ins.

 

[moonslav59]

He's wanted to move Devers to 1b since 2017 or so.

 

Good one. (not true, though.)

 

I did mention it earlier than others, but then he started getting better for a brief stretch, and I wasn't so sure.

 

Yes, I have been wishy-washy on this idea. I admit it.

 

I don't think it would hurt him or his ego, to hand hima 1B glove and see what he looks like at 1B in practice and then maybe a few games in 2024.

 

Again, who else plays 1B, when Cora "rests" Casas 10-15 games, next year?

[moonslav59]

Too much talk about Devers. He is the best player on the team. He is not the problem. The problem is the starting pitching and the failure to adequately replace Bogaerts at shortstop. To me, that was/is obvious. I think Bloom knew that was the problem , but he just did not have the right answers. Obviously, Kluber, Paxton and Kike were not the solution. Time to try again.

 

There is enough time to talk about all our problems. 3B D is a problem.

 

Talking about Devers at 3B vs 1B does not change the importance of fixing other problems.

[moonslav59]

Devers is the best player on the team, but his Errors at 3B has been a problem.

 

Half are with his throws. He's actually decent with the glove and range. IMO, he'd be a plus defender at 1B within a month or two, and by the way, our current 1Bman is not much better than Dalbec was on D. (worse according to OAA)

 

(Note: I'm not for moving Devers to 1B in 2024, unless as a back-up. I want Yoshi at DH in 2024.)

[Old Red]

Half are with his throws. He's actually decent with the glove and range. IMO, he'd be a plus defender at 1B within a month or two, and by the way, our current 1Bman is not much better than Dalbec was on D. (worse according to OAA)

 

(Note: I'm not for moving Devers to 1B in 2024, unless as a back-up. I want Yoshi at DH in 2024.)

I would move Yoshida if I could. I would also bring JT back.

[Old Red]

Half are with his throws. He's actually decent with the glove and range. IMO, he'd be a plus defender at 1B within a month or two, and by the way, our current 1Bman is not much better than Dalbec was on D. (worse according to OAA)

 

(Note: I'm not for moving Devers to 1B in 2024, unless as a back-up. I want Yoshi at DH in 2024.)

I’m not moving Devers anywhere as a backup.

[Old Red]

Good one. (not true, though.)

 

I did mention it earlier than others, but then he started getting better for a brief stretch, and I wasn't so sure.

 

Yes, I have been wishy-washy on this idea. I admit it.

 

I don't think it would hurt him or his ego, to hand hima 1B glove and see what he looks like at 1B in practice and then maybe a few games in 2024.

 

Again, who else plays 1B, when Cora "rests" Casas 10-15 games, next year?

 

I’ll say it again, but don’t count out Bobby D if JT doesn’t come back.

[moonslav59]

I’m not moving Devers anywhere as a backup.

 

I'm for keeping Devers at 3B and possibly letting him learn how to play 1B and possibly be the back-up in '24, if we don't add someone who can play 1B (JT or Duvall coming back?)

 

I doubt we give a 26 man slot to Dalbec, but I can see him staying on the 40, as insurance.

[moonslav59]

I’ll say it again, but don’t count out Bobby D if JT doesn’t come back.

 

Unless we add someone, I think Bobby Dee stays on the 40, but not the 26, unless there is an injury.

[moonslav59]

I would move Yoshida if I could. I would also bring JT back.

 

I'd trade Yoshi, too. If we did, JT would be high on my list, too. Maybe he and Duvall.

[moonslav59]

Worst team OAA since 2017 (210 entries)

 

209. 2023 Red Sox -51

204. 2021 Red Sox -40

156. 2022 Red Sox -13

128. 2020 Red Sox -5 (short season)

_____________________________

 

98. 2017 Red Sox +3

92. 2019 Red Sox +4

64. 2018 Red Sox +9

[Bellhorn04]

Worst team OAA since 2017 (210 entries)

 

209. 2023 Red Sox -51

204. 2021 Red Sox -40

156. 2022 Red Sox -13

128. 2020 Red Sox -5 (short season)

_____________________________

 

98. 2017 Red Sox +3

92. 2019 Red Sox +4

64. 2018 Red Sox +9

 

Before and After Bloom and the Mookie trade.

[moonslav59]

Before and After Bloom and the Mookie trade.

 

Indeed, and we still had JBJ and a decent fielding 1Bman.

[sk7326]

Worst team OAA since 2017 (210 entries)

 

209. 2023 Red Sox -51

204. 2021 Red Sox -40

156. 2022 Red Sox -13

128. 2020 Red Sox -5 (short season)

_____________________________

 

98. 2017 Red Sox +3

92. 2019 Red Sox +4

64. 2018 Red Sox +9

 

The willingness for a Tampa Bay grad to field this poor a defense was the most shocking part of the Bloom era.

[sk7326]

There is enough time to talk about all our problems. 3B D is a problem.

 

Talking about Devers at 3B vs 1B does not change the importance of fixing other problems.

 

I'd argue that with his bad, you could survive ONE minus defender on the infield ... but when you add the league's worst defensive situation at SS pre-Story and there is really nowhere to hide.