A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Bellhorn04]

I'm wondering if Rafaela would be a great utility guy until he starts someday.

 

He can fill both infield and outfield positions at a high level.

 

They don't usually like to mess around with young prospects like that.

[moonslav59]

They don't usually like to mess around with young prospects like that.

 

I'm not sure I remember a top 10 Sox prospects playing so many positions in the minors, and playing them well.

 

GS

187 CF

47 SS

22 2B

18 3B

9 LF

1 RF

 

He's played about 2/3 in the OF.

[moonslav59]

Paxton won the pitcher of the month award.

 

Last time a Sox pitcher did it was Sale in 2018.

[cp176]

Well deserved by the way. So quick questions for those who want to trade him. who you going to get in return? You'll be giving up on this season right?

[notin]

No one is exempt. Remember when Theo said something about a "bridge" year?

 

Bloom has had a somewhat unfortunate tendency to make statements that sound like promises.

 

You're right that most GMs say nothing. Dombrowski didn't have to say anything because it was so obvious what he was doing. Here's Kimbrel, here's Price, here's Sale, here's JDM, goodbye farm...

 

 

Theo learned his lesson there, huh?

 

Used the phrase “bridge year” to talk about the minors, went out and signed John Lackey to the largest contract for a pitcher in team history (at the time). And everyone ignored the second action, focused on the quote, and assumed the team was not trying to win…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Well deserved by the way. So quick questions for those who want to trade him. who you going to get in return? You'll be giving up on this season right?

 

The Red Sox aren't serious contenders to win a ring this year with a playoff rotation of Paxton, Bello, Crawford and openers, with a below-average defense behind them -- that's where they stand today. And that's assuming that Paxton will stay healthy and awesome the rest of the season -- when we know he already had a knee issue a week ago.

 

Paxton's value will never be higher than right now -- Bloom has the best pitcher in the American League, as judged by the June Pitcher of the Month award, available to the highest bidder. We all know Bloom isn't going to resign Paxton next winter to the multi-year contract at market prices for a top-of-the-rotation starter that he'll be (maybe deservedly) seeking.

 

Last winter Bloom let Eovaldi, Wacha and Hill walk -- other injury-prone starters in their 30s -- and had no choice but to retain Paxton, who accepted his player option to stay in Boston. And none of the decent or useful pitchers the Sox let go were asking for big money after maybe receiving a Cy Young vote or two (it's possible, if he continues to shine).

 

The Red Sox are in a unique position with Paxton -- they might just be able to land a top pitching prospect to be part of their future core and under control through the decade... but the clock is ticking. He's still healthy today.

[redsoxrules]

Well deserved by the way. So quick questions for those who want to trade him. who you going to get in return? You'll be giving up on this season right?

 

They should be able to get a good prospect in return. He's about to turn 35 this year. Since 2020 he's made only 15 starts counting this year. He's not one I would bet on to keep staying healthy in the future

[cp176]

The Red Sox aren't serious contenders to win a ring this year with a playoff rotation of Paxton, Bello, Crawford and openers, with a below-average defense behind them -- that's where they stand today. And that's assuming that Paxton will stay healthy and awesome the rest of the season -- when we know he already had a knee issue a week ago.

 

Paxton's value will never be higher than right now -- Bloom has the best pitcher in the American League, as judged by the June Pitcher of the Month award, available to the highest bidder. We all know Bloom isn't going to resign Paxton next winter to the multi-year contract at market prices for a top-of-the-rotation starter that he'll be (maybe deservedly) seeking.

 

Last winter Bloom let Eovaldi, Wacha and Hill walk -- other injury-prone starters in their 30s -- and had no choice but to retain Paxton, who accepted his player option to stay in Boston. And none of the decent or useful pitchers the Sox let go were asking for big money after maybe receiving a Cy Young vote or two (it's possible, if he continues to shine).

 

The Red Sox are in a unique position with Paxton -- they might just be able to land a top pitching prospect to be part of their future core and under control through the decade... but the clock is ticking. He's still healthy today.

 

I don't think that holding on to Paxton makes them a ring contender by any means but at least it gives them a shot at the wild card possibly. It keeps a whole group of people tuned in. Even the real contenders for a ring have to get very lucky to win one. All you really need to do is get to the playoffs. If they decide to trade him, I really hope that they are smart about it.

[cp176]

They should be able to get a good prospect in return. He's about to turn 35 this year. Since 2020 he's made only 15 starts counting this year. He's not one I would bet on to keep staying healthy in the future

 

I'm not suggesting they keep him for another season, I just don't like the idea of a total give up on this one with a return that might be very questionable. Basically I guess I just never liked the idea of quitting.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not suggesting they keep him for another season, I just don't like the idea of a total give up on this one with a return that might be very questionable. Basically I guess I just never liked the idea of quitting.

 

Last year they were 3 back of the last Wild Card at the deadline and didn't sell except for Vazquez. And a lot of people said they should have sold a lot more, of course.

 

I don't think they'll be in any rush to sell this year either. But it's in play.

[notin]

Well deserved by the way. So quick questions for those who want to trade him. who you going to get in return? You'll be giving up on this season right?

 

I think he goes. And the Sox roll the five on another pitching acquisition who is under control for next season (at a minimum) in a separate deal…

[Bellhorn04]

I think he goes. And the Sox roll the five on another pitching acquisition who is under control for next season (at a minimum) in a separate deal…

 

Can't see him going if we're still in it.

[Nick]

The Red Sox aren't serious contenders to win a ring this year with a playoff rotation of Paxton, Bello, Crawford and openers, with a below-average defense behind them -- that's where they stand today. And that's assuming that Paxton will stay healthy and awesome the rest of the season -- when we know he already had a knee issue a week ago.

 

Paxton's value will never be higher than right now -- Bloom has the best pitcher in the American League, as judged by the June Pitcher of the Month award, available to the highest bidder. We all know Bloom isn't going to resign Paxton next winter to the multi-year contract at market prices for a top-of-the-rotation starter that he'll be (maybe deservedly) seeking.

 

Last winter Bloom let Eovaldi, Wacha and Hill walk -- other injury-prone starters in their 30s -- and had no choice but to retain Paxton, who accepted his player option to stay in Boston. And none of the decent or useful pitchers the Sox let go were asking for big money after maybe receiving a Cy Young vote or two (it's possible, if he continues to shine).

 

The Red Sox are in a unique position with Paxton -- they might just be able to land a top pitching prospect to be part of their future core and under control through the decade... but the clock is ticking. He's still healthy today.

 

You make too much sense. Are you sure you're Sox fan?

 

We have a fan base that is praying Story comes back, Whitlock comes back healthy, Sale comes back healthy, Houck comes back healthy, Schreiber comes back healthy, Duval returns to his April form, those lefty relievers signed by Bloom over the winter comes back healthy, Chang returns from his third rehab attempt, Mondesi steps out of whirlpool long enough to test whatever it ails him, Bello continues to pitch like an ace, Kluber finds separation with his breaking balls from his 88 mph fastball finally, Crawford doesn't regress, that we're successful with an Opener 2 out of every 5 games, and there's finally peace in Ukraine.............Geez, anything else?

 

Threading the needle comes to mind. Or is it finding a needle in haystack?

Edited July 4, 2023 by Nick

[Nick]

With Trout and Judge out, maybe Verdugo will be in Seattle.

[Nick]

Behind Bernardino, Adam Duvall and Kiké Hernández are both out of the lineup with Jarren Duran starting in center field and Christian Arroyo at second base against Texas righty Dane Dunning. Connor Wong will do the catching.

 

Looks like we have a chance today.

[Nick]

Well deserved by the way. So quick questions for those who want to trade him. who you going to get in return? You'll be giving up on this season right?

 

Not necessarily. We can keep Paxton until last minute, about the time Sale returns. I'm channeling Bloom's eternal optimism.

[Dipre]

You make too much sense. Are you sure you're Sox fan?

 

We have a fan base that is praying Story comes back, Whitlock comes back healthy, Sale comes back healthy, Houck comes back healthy, Schreiber comes back healthy, Duval returns to his April form, those lefty relievers signed by Bloom over the winter comes back healthy, Chang returns from his third rehab attempt, Mondesi steps out of whirlpool long enough to test whatever it ails him, Bello continues to pitch like an ace, Crawford doesn't regress, that we're successful with an Opener 2 out of every 5 games, and there's finally peace in Ukraine.............Geez, anything else?

 

Threading the needle comes to mind. Or is it finding a needle in haystack?

 

Lots of wishful thinking for a team barely hanging on. I'm with you that we should focus on '24 and beyond.

[dannycater]

Sadly, I was one of the first to give up, last year.

 

I think I officially "gave up" when Hunter Renfroe was traded for JBJR. And I loved JBJR back in 2018 and when he was in his prime as a GG centerfielder. But that just got me thinking what the hell is going on with this organization. Will always love Sox, like the firey play of Verdugo and the premium pitching of Paxton, Bello...but not as fun as it used to be to follow the Sox. Depressing to always see .500 or less in standings..and last place (yes, Central everyone is under .500).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Lots of wishful thinking for a team barely hanging on. I'm with you that we should focus on '24 and beyond.

 

It's not bad for fans, of course, to wish for the best... or even hope history repeats itself. Worst to first has happened more than once, in Boston alone.

 

But there's no way I was falling for the unreasonable optimism going into this season that Bloom's veteran recruits on short-term contracts could parallel the 2013 Sox... if only everything goes right.

 

Ya, and if only the '23 Sox already had a Hall of Fame DH in the middle of the order, a stolen base king (70 in the majors) leading off, a borderline Hall of Fame second baseman, and the winningest lefthander of his era at the top of the rotation... like the '13 champs did. Nope, these Sox just have Raffy.

[Dipre]

The real problem with this team was more around how cohesive was the roster, not necessarily the talent level. They have hit for stretches, pitched for stretches, but haven't defended at all. Anyone but Kluber in the rotation and Hernandez at SS, and we're probably looking at being the 2nd WC right now.

[Nick]

The real problem with this team was more around how cohesive was the roster, not necessarily the talent level. They have hit for stretches, pitched for stretches, but haven't defended at all. Anyone but Kluber in the rotation and Hernandez at SS, and we're probably looking at being the 2nd WC right now.

It's a problem when the fans see it before the manager and the staff.

 

Remember Cora assured us Kike can play short.

[Dipre]

It's a problem when the fans see it before the manager and the staff.

 

Remember Cora assured us Kike can play short.

 

Dude, what did you want him to say? He has to hold the company line.

[vegasbob]

What do you know---Yu Chang and Mike Trout have something in common , both out with hamate bone fractures, but we will get Yu before snakebit Angels see Trout back.

[notin]

It's a problem when the fans see it before the manager and the staff.

 

Remember Cora assured us Kike can play short.

 

Never confuse when they see something with when they admit something…

[moonslav59]

We were 46-39, last year after 85 games- better than now.

 

We ended July 3-12 and 4-16, and that was that.

 

I think we may do better, this July, but who knows?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We were 46-39, last year after 85 games- better than now.

 

We ended July 3-12 and 4-16, and that was that.

 

I think we may do better, this July, but who knows?

 

It all depends how many more games the Sox start Bernardino, then remove him even though his stuff is moving and basically unhittable... and bring in Ort.

[notin]

It all depends how many more games the Sox start Bernardino, then remove him even though his stuff is moving and basically unhittable... and bring in Ort.

 

Since June 1 (not including today), Ort actually had a 3.60 ERA (4.39 FIP) with a .699 OPSA over 10 IP. Not exactly stellar, but a far cry from how he was during my repeated calls for a DFA…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Since June 1 (not including today), Ort actually had a 3.60 ERA (4.39 FIP) with a .699 OPSA over 10 IP. Not exactly stellar, but a far cry from how he was during my repeated calls for a DFA…

 

Ya, but today Ort symbolized what's in store for a team forced to rely on openers in their rotation while supposedly still fighting for a wild card. Three pitches, three rips, game over.

 

And the worst part was that Bernardino looked really good when they took him out...

[sk7326]

It takes longer than 3.5 years to see tangible results from a GM farm additions, even when many are college draftees- Bloom's have not been.

 

What other recent Sox GM went 5 years with just one meaningful graduating prospect from the previous GM, or in Theo's case from his longer history of additions?

 

July 25, 2017 Devers called up

 

Sept 15, 2020 Houck called up

 

July 22, 2022 Bello called up.

 

By the time Bello matured, it was almost 6 years from the Devers call up in '17.

 

I'm surprised so many don't seem to think this is such a big deal, or they seem to blame Bloom, we haven't seen more since 2020.

 

Context does not matter. Bloom was supposed to magically make young studs appear out of thin air- cause that's what they do in Tampa. Apparently, TB does not have to wait 3-4 years for their prospects to mature. (LOL)

 

I don't blame him for stuff that has happened before him ... and I understand he is kind of executing a very muddled ownership position. But sure with what he had and with the resources he has - and the nature of baseball contention itself - being a big league afterthought 4 years in does reflect badly.

[sk7326]

"since he drafts almost only HS players", does that mean we're supposed to give Bloom a pass for the next 5, 6, 7 years waiting for them to develop? i'm thinking maybe he should be looking at some kids who are a bit closer to being ready.

 

Bloom overall has done an okay job. That said, an architect of the Rays' machine - with the Red Sox resources - ending up just kind of spinning plates out there, is a bit of a bummer. The obvious comparison is to Bloom's mentor Friedman with the Dodgers - but that is a bit unfair considering the Dodgers were in better shape in 2015.