A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[sk7326]

I don’t think it’s justified, if all the details were known after 2019, but I’m clearly in a tiny minority.

 

I had hoped it would take just 3-4 years, and 2021 was a gift.

 

There were issues - but the Red Sox are a team that can make the money machine go brrr on all fronts (pro scouts, amateur scouts, math nerds, on top of payroll) ... that fans account that in expectation makes complete sense to me. I mean there will be seasons the team doesn't win 90 games - but those should be looked at as disappointments.

[moonslav59]

I don't blame him for stuff that has happened before him ... and I understand he is kind of executing a very muddled ownership position. But sure with what he had and with the resources he has - and the nature of baseball contention itself - being a big league afterthought 4 years in does reflect badly.

 

What GM builds a winner with just Houck comin up from the system over a 5 year stretch?

 

I'm not defending Bloom or saying he's done a good job, but that situation was absurd.

 

Add to that mandated massive budget cuts that tore away a generational talent like Betts, without allowing the "money saved" to be spent until 3 years later.

 

Add to that injuries and decline from just about every vet he inherited.

 

None of this was his making.

 

I just don't see how anyone can have expected a winning team with all that baggage.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Bloom overall has done an okay job. That said, an architect of the Rays' machine - with the Red Sox resources - ending up just kind of spinning plates out there, is a bit of a bummer. The obvious comparison is to Bloom's mentor Friedman with the Dodgers - but that is a bit unfair considering the Dodgers were in better shape in 2015.

 

Look at the 2020 team and this one: the budget, the farm and the foundation going forward.

 

You see spinning in place?

 

The record, yes. The roster and system, no.

 

That being said, much of the system is speculative and not proven.

[Bellhorn04]

What GM builds a winner with just Houck comin up from the system over a 5 year stretch?

 

I'm not defending Bloom or saying he's done a good job, but that situation was absurd.

 

Add to that mandated massive budget cuts that tore away a generational talent like Betts, without allowing the "money saved" to be spent until 3 years later.

 

Add to that injuries and decline from just about every vet he inherited.

 

None of this was his making.

 

I just don't see how anyone can have expected a winning team with all that baggage.

 

Bloom could have made better moves. We could easily compile a list of moves that would have been better than signing Story, trading for JBJ and going over the tax line as a result, signing Kluber etc. Some of it would be hindsight and cherry-picking, of course. But it's not like he had no options.

 

I think everyone gets that he inherited a very weak farm. It's the moves involving spending on major league players that can be questioned.

[Bellhorn04]

I think we dodged the bullet with Xander signing. It's business. How excited am I to be a Padres fan knowing we're year 1 of 10+ year deals of Xander and Machado? I can't wait until they're 40. Oh boy.

 

And Borass will demand $40M for Soto.

 

You chose very unwisely, Padres.

 

They should have extended Soto and passed on Xander.

 

No sooner do you say that than Xander goes off. Last 2 games, 5 hits, 2 walks, 2 homers and 6 RBI.

 

It was a ridiculous contract he got from the Padres, but I wish we could have signed him to something reasonable. And not signed Story. Not sure where Xander would have played when Mayer was ready, though.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No sooner do you say that than Xander goes off. Last 2 games, 5 hits, 2 walks, 2 homers and 6 RBI.

 

It was a ridiculous contract he got from the Padres, but I wish we could have signed him to something reasonable. And not signed Story. Not sure where Xander would have played when Mayer was ready, though.

 

X might still be at short in Boston, while Mayer would be SS in some other city, probably -- traded for a bonafide starting pitcher prospect with actual upside.

 

It's still very irksome that an entire department of front office analysts somehow agreed to prefer a shortstop with a bum elbow who strikes out an average of 191 times in 162 games (vs. Bogie: 127 Ks/162). Granted, those numbers are inflated, reflecting career highs, but how about these career K-rates: Story 27.9%, Bogaerts 18.3%.

[Bellhorn04]

X might still be at short in Boston, while Mayer would be SS in some other city, probably -- traded for a bonafide starting pitcher prospect with actual upside.

 

It's still very irksome that an entire department of front office analysts somehow agreed to prefer a shortstop with a bum elbow who strikes out an average of 191 times in 162 games (vs. Bogie: 127 Ks/162). Granted, those numbers are inflated, reflecting career highs, but how about these career K-rates: Story 27.9%, Bogaerts 18.3%.

 

And Bogaerts has been super durable. If anything he seems to want to play even when he's hurt. Just a model baseball citizen and nice guy. Even more so than with Mookie, I like to see Xander do well even if it's in another uniform.

[notin]

No sooner do you say that than Xander goes off. Last 2 games, 5 hits, 2 walks, 2 homers and 6 RBI.

 

It was a ridiculous contract he got from the Padres, but I wish we could have signed him to something reasonable. And not signed Story. Not sure where Xander would have played when Mayer was ready, though.

 

1. Mayer may never “be ready”.

 

2. SS is not his birthright.

 

3. You don’t build your team around prospects in A ball

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1. Mayer may never “be ready”.

 

2. SS is not his birthright.

 

3. You don’t build your team around prospects in A ball

 

3. cb But some tear down or at least renovate teams, based on "you know what's coming!"

 

3. cb f-minus Still waiting for our CBO, to "surround Devers with talent, because now it's ok to bet on him"

[Bellhorn04]

1. Mayer may never “be ready”.

 

2. SS is not his birthright.

 

3. You don’t build your team around prospects in A ball

 

4. I was merely engaging in pointless idle speculation about what-if scenarios that don't matter anyway with regard to Bogaerts, and I don't disagree with anything you said but am mildly surprised at how forcefully you jumped on that pointless speculation.

[Hugh2]

Just think, by this time next week we will have a new young short stop in the Sox system for everyone to glorify and/or complain about.

[notin]

4. I was merely engaging in pointless idle speculation about what-if scenarios that don't matter anyway with regard to Bogaerts, and I don't disagree with anything you said but am mildly surprised at how forcefully you jumped on that pointless speculation.

 

You think that was “forcefully”?

[Bellhorn04]

You think that was “forcefully”?

 

Well, not by your standards, I suppose.

[Dipre]

The contract for Bogaerts was not a good one. I love X, but that contract will be an albatross soon, and you all know it.

[Bellhorn04]

The contract for Bogaerts was not a good one. I love X, but that contract will be an albatross soon, and you all know it.

 

The real argument, though, is that the Sox could have signed him for something a lot more reasonable if they were proactive about it.

[moonslav59]

Bloom could have made better moves. We could easily compile a list of moves that would have been better than signing Story, trading for JBJ and going over the tax line as a result, signing Kluber etc. Some of it would be hindsight and cherry-picking, of course. But it's not like he had no options.

 

I think everyone gets that he inherited a very weak farm. It's the moves involving spending on major league players that can be questioned.

 

He's made some blunders, for sure. I was highly critical of the JBJ trade (re: "Head scratcher"), the Richards and Diekman signings and more.

 

He did have other options, for sure, like spending more on pitching than hitting. I get that, but again, getting no help from the farm, seeing virtually every carry-over vet decline, even the ones in their prime, while having to manage a tough budget system for 5 years, again I ask what should be expected? It looks like some expected him to hit on 85-95% of his signings and trades, because even that might not have been enough.

 

The Story signing made sense, to me, since I felt all along that Bogey was not coming back. He could have had a sell-off last deadline, but may have been told not to do it.

 

Sure, he could have not signed Richards and Kluber, but what else do GMs normally get for $10M/1? Should he have not signed Renfroe, so he could spend $3M more on a SP'er and gotten a much better one?

 

I look at the price range he had and think he did about as expected to maybe little worse with the Kluber, Richards, Perez I, Perez II, Wacha and Hill signings.

 

The first Kike signing was decent- this one, not. The Barnes extensión sucked.

 

The Betts and Beni trades look good, in context. The JBJ trade sucked.

 

The Pivetta, Schwarber, Diekman and Vaz trades look good to me. One bad trade out of about a dozen.

 

The Whitlock, Scheiber, Refsnyder, Arroyo and other finds have helped, but he has surely swung and missed on many more low level deals- as expected.

 

Again, he had about 18 roster slots to fill in 2020 while slashing the budget. He had about 12-14 to fill before 2021 and precious little budget space. He had more money in 2022, but still about 10 slots to fill- not enough to get top quality players, unless you put all the eggs in 1-2 baskets. No help from the farm on filling any slots, except Houck, Dalbec and the recent call-ups in 2023.

 

No doubt, we could go back and name names of FAs who overperformed expectations and say, "He should have outbid the Rays for Eflin and re-signed Perez for 2022," but I don't think it's realistic to expect any GM to get 75% of his moves right, especially when needing to bargain hunt for 3 of his 4 years in control.

 

How many GM build winners with no farm help but Houck and a slashed budget year 1, followed by slow increases the next 3? There maybe be 1 or 2, but it's certainly not something to be expected.

[moonslav59]

It's both strange and hurtful that all our players on the 60 Day IL are pitchers or Short Stops.

 

P: Sale, Schreiber, Kelly, Mills

SS: Story, Change, Reyes

 

Shorter ILs:

P: Whitlock, Houck, Joely, Kluber, Bleier (Paxton on Pat leave)

C: McGuire

 

All-in-all, 13 of our 14 players on the IL or PAT list are pitchers or SSs. Only McGuire plays another position. (14 of 15, if you count Sherriff/ 15 of 16 counting Mata.)

 

We've used 27 pitchers before the All Star Break, one being Reyes, so really 26.

 

I thought we had good depth, this year- more "quantity than quality," but not bad on the quality side.

 

Kluber and Pivetta pitched themselves into demotions, but still remain on the 40. (Pivetta is actually contributing from the pen.) Pitchers I viewed as good ML ready depth from the farm have not really given us much: Mata, Walter, Murphy, Kelly and Mills.

 

We've had to dig deep into our system as well as grab some pitchers from the waiver wire or by trade. Some have done okay.

 

One can argue about who our 13 pitchers would be, if all were healthy, and it can be argued that Bello might have started on the farm, but here is my 13:

 

Opening Day All Healthy

SP: Sale, Paxton, Bello, Kluber, Pivetta

RP: Jansen, Martin, Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, Bleier, Brasier, Joely

 

That leaves the replacements as...

 

Crawford (drafted '17)

Winckowski (Beni trade)

 

Others...

 

Waivers:

Bernardino

J Garza

 

Trade:

Taylor Scott (for cash)

Zack Littell (for cash) later was waived

 

From system:

Walter (drafted '19)

Murphy (drafted '19)

Kelly (FA in '20) on 60 day IL

Ort (minor league Rule 5 in '20)

Sherriff (FA) on IL, now

Jacques (minor league Rule 5)

Dermody (signed as FA) later waived

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

He's made some blunders, for sure. I was highly critical of the JBJ trade (re: "Head scratcher"), the Richards and Diekman signings and more.

 

He did have other options, for sure, like spending more on pitching than hitting. I get that, but again, getting no help from the farm, seeing virtually every carry-over vet decline, even the ones in their prime, while having to manage a tough budget system for 5 years, again I ask what should be expected? It looks like some expected him to hit on 85-95% of his signings and trades, because even that might not have been enough.

 

The Story signing made sense, to me, since I felt all along that Bogey was not coming back. He could have had a sell-off last deadline, but may have been told not to do it.

 

Sure, he could have not signed Richards and Kluber, but what else do GMs normally get for $10M/1? Should he have not signed Renfroe, so he could spend $3M more on a SP'er and gotten a much better one?

 

I look at the price range he had and think he did about as expected to maybe little worse with the Kluber, Richards, Perez I, Perez II, Wacha and Hill signings.

 

The first Kike signing was decent- this one, not. The Barnes extensión sucked.

 

The Betts and Beni trades look good, in context. The JBJ trade sucked.

 

The Pivetta, Schwarber, Diekman and Vaz trades look good to me. One bad trade out of about a dozen.

 

The Whitlock, Scheiber, Refsnyder, Arroyo and other finds have helped, but he has surely swung and missed on many more low level deals- as expected.

 

Again, he had about 18 roster slots to fill in 2020 while slashing the budget. He had about 12-14 to fill before 2021 and precious little budget space. He had more money in 2022, but still about 10 slots to fill- not enough to get top quality players, unless you put all the eggs in 1-2 baskets. No help from the farm on filling any slots, except Houck, Dalbec and the recent call-ups in 2023.

 

No doubt, we could go back and name names of FAs who overperformed expectations and say, "He should have outbid the Rays for Eflin and re-signed Perez for 2022," but I don't think it's realistic to expect any GM to get 75% of his moves right, especially when needing to bargain hunt for 3 of his 4 years in control.

 

How many GM build winners with no farm help but Houck and a slashed budget year 1, followed by slow increases the next 3? There maybe be 1 or 2, but it's certainly not something to be expected.

 

Based on this, going into the past offseason, which you said was a big one for Bloom, were you expecting him to put together a .500 team, or something better? And why?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He's made some blunders, for sure. I was highly critical of the JBJ trade (re: "Head scratcher"), the Richards and Diekman signings and more.

 

He did have other options, for sure, like spending more on pitching than hitting. I get that, but again, getting no help from the farm, seeing virtually every carry-over vet decline, even the ones in their prime, while having to manage a tough budget system for 5 years, again I ask what should be expected? It looks like some expected him to hit on 85-95% of his signings and trades, because even that might not have been enough.

 

The Story signing made sense, to me, since I felt all along that Bogey was not coming back. He could have had a sell-off last deadline, but may have been told not to do it.

 

Sure, he could have not signed Richards and Kluber, but what else do GMs normally get for $10M/1? Should he have not signed Renfroe, so he could spend $3M more on a SP'er and gotten a much better one?

 

I look at the price range he had and think he did about as expected to maybe little worse with the Kluber, Richards, Perez I, Perez II, Wacha and Hill signings.

 

The first Kike signing was decent- this one, not. The Barnes extensión sucked.

 

The Betts and Beni trades look good, in context. The JBJ trade sucked.

 

The Pivetta, Schwarber, Diekman and Vaz trades look good to me. One bad trade out of about a dozen.

 

 

 

To me, any trade where you lose a Hall of Famer in his prime (who continues his Cooperstown trajectory in another city) that doesn't replace him with another Hall of Famer, weakens a team. Four years later, the Red Sox finally have two players from the Betts deal in the starting line-up: Verdugo is having a career year, and Wong is pretty good defensively. Still, their combined WAR is .3 more than Mookie... right now.

 

I won't even call the Benintendi trade a win for Bloom, because personally I wouldn't trade a decent everyday regular for a decent relief pitcher. Something sapped Beni of his power, but he's still a .280 hitter and Gold Glove outfielder. Maybe if Gambrell eventually contributes to the parent club, the scales will legitimately tip to Boston -- just remember, the guy better be an above-average pitcher to make up for all the ghastly Franchy days.

 

And consider this about why Bloom spends more on hitters rather than high-end pitchers -- entertainment... Any serious fans know that all title teams focus first at the highest point on the diamond -- the hill, smack-dab in the middle of the field. But we, along with every GM, also knows that pitching is the most expensive commodity. Meanwhile, teams can still draw fans in a place like Fenway if they're bopping big flies off the Monstah!

[moonslav59]

Based on this, going into the past offseason, which you said was a big one for Bloom, were you expecting him to put together a .500 team, or something better? And why?

 

I did say that and nothing has changed.

 

My point was mostly about years 1-3, and those (not you) who keep saying he's had 4 years to build a winner.

 

It's been 5 years between Devers and Bello with no farm help, except Houck.

 

It's been 4 years from the Sale extension to the Story signing in March 2022.

 

We should have been better after the Story signing and into this year. I am not saying Bloom has done a good job spending, even when he had more spending to do (starting March 2022.)

 

I see it this way: Bloom overachieved in 2021 by getting us much farther than we should have gone.

 

The 2022 season might have gone better, if Story was not hurt. Bloom knew he was hurt when he signed him, so it's no excuse. The spending was still somewhat limited, and as I have said before, I think his 2022 signings were better than 2021's (Wacha, Hill, Strahm), but it was the decline of production by carry-over vets that killed the '22 season more than Story and the JBJ trade. Again, no excuses. 2022 could have gone better had we not traded for JBJ and spent Story's money on better pitching than Richards.

 

The 2023 season is not over. To me, this still is Bloom's legacy season- or make or break to me- maybe not to JH. He lost a lot of talent, but much of it was in decline or injured in 2022, so I thought his increased budget would allow him to put his stamp on the team and show what he can do. I expected us to spend $7-9M more, but maybe he will at the deadline.

 

I liked the Yoshida, Duvall, Jansen and Martin signings. I thought the Kluber deal looked better than the Richards and Perez deals. I had hoped we'd have brought back Wacha, and I felt his deal was a reasonable one, and the Eflin near missed killed us.

 

The Kike extension hurt. The injuries focused on just 2 areas- P and SS have been devastating, and the Sale injury should not be counted against Bloom, but the luck of Paxton cancels that out. The Kluber signing may end up being the key mistake. The others look fine, to me- one by one, but when taken overall, too much was spent on hitting and not SPing and defense. That's a mistake Bloom owns.

 

I do not think Bloom has done a good job building this ML roster for 2023, so far. That could change, if people get healthy and the bats hit nearer to their April numbers than afterwards. There seems to be too many ifs to overcome, this year, but IMO, we don't need all the ifs to work out to make the playoffs, and then, it's a crapshoot, right?

 

If we suck, this year, I'm not moving the goalposts. Bloom owns it. He added injury prone players. He had a decent budget to work with. He had farm infusion for one (Bello, Casas & Duran, to name 3.) That excuse is gone, now. The reset hurt, but he still had a lot to spend. He chose to spend over 90% on everything else but the rotation.

 

The interesting thing is that our rotation has actually done pretty well, since the first 3 weeks of the season, despite missing one-third of our best starters GS'd due to injuries. The rotation depth has kept us alive. The D and now the O has been killing us. Bloom fixed the pen, finally. If the rotation can get a couple arms back, we just might see Bloom's "legacy" improve.

 

 

 

[sk7326]

Look at the 2020 team and this one: the budget, the farm and the foundation going forward.

 

You see spinning in place?

 

The record, yes. The roster and system, no.

 

That being said, much of the system is speculative and not proven.

 

The major league roster has been mostly plate spinning. The minors there has been more done.

 

Looking askance at the operation for not producing a major league stud is unfair. Seeing a lack of All-Star ceiling in the system at AAish is a fair thing to note.

 

One thing I think in your analysis that is worth mentioning is that your generosity is based on taking the ownership budget cuts as a given - I respect that. Personally, I think those ownership budget cuts are part of the soup the last 4 years (even if outside of Bloom's purview) and has to be part of the "is our Red Sox doing a good job" question.

[moonslav59]

To me, any trade where you lose a Hall of Famer in his prime (who continues his Cooperstown trajectory in another city) that doesn't replace him with another Hall of Famer, weakens a team. Four years later, the Red Sox finally have two players from the Betts deal in the starting line-up: Verdugo is having a career year, and Wong is pretty good defensively. Still, their combined WAR is .3 more than Mookie... right now.

 

I won't even call the Benintendi trade a win for Bloom, because personally I wouldn't trade a decent everyday regular for a decent relief pitcher. Something sapped Beni of his power, but he's still a .280 hitter and Gold Glove outfielder. Maybe if Gambrell eventually contributes to the parent club, the scales will legitimately tip to Boston -- just remember, the guy better be an above-average pitcher to make up for all the ghastly Franchy days.

 

And consider this about why Bloom spends more on hitters rather than high-end pitchers -- entertainment... Any serious fans know that all title teams focus first at the highest point on the diamond -- the hill, smack-dab in the middle of the field. But we, along with every GM, also knows that pitching is the most expensive commodity. Meanwhile, teams can still draw fans in a place like Fenway if they're bopping big flies off the Monstah!

 

We did not trade 4 or 10 years of Betts for Verdugo and Wong. We traded a 60 game season of Betts for 5 years for Dugo and Wong.

 

Beni was never the same after the trade. I can see not calling it a win, but it wasn't a big loss- like many felt it was and still do.

 

On the pitching, he did spend more on pitching for 2020, 2021 and it would have been for 2022, until the last minute Story signing.

 

We signed Perez a year or two early.

The Richards and Kluber $10M/1 deals flopped- like many in that price range do.

The Wacha and Hill signings worked okay, but didn't get us over the hill due to massive production declines and injuries from Nate, Bogey and JD. The Kike decline and JBJ deal were 100% Bloom.

 

2020:

6 Perez

3 Peraza

 

2021

10 Richards

9 Ottavino (trade)

7 X 2 Kike

5 Perez

3 Renfroe & Marwin

3/2 Sawamura

2 Andriese

 

2022

23 x 6 Story

7 Wacha

5 Hill

4 x 2 Diekman

3 Strahm

(JBJ - Renfroe)

 

This year, we spent a lot on the pen but only $10M on the rotation.

[sk7326]

To me, any trade where you lose a Hall of Famer in his prime (who continues his Cooperstown trajectory in another city) that doesn't replace him with another Hall of Famer, weakens a team. Four years later, the Red Sox finally have two players from the Betts deal in the starting line-up: Verdugo is having a career year, and Wong is pretty good defensively. Still, their combined WAR is .3 more than Mookie... right now.

 

I won't even call the Benintendi trade a win for Bloom, because personally I wouldn't trade a decent everyday regular for a decent relief pitcher. Something sapped Beni of his power, but he's still a .280 hitter and Gold Glove outfielder. Maybe if Gambrell eventually contributes to the parent club, the scales will legitimately tip to Boston -- just remember, the guy better be an above-average pitcher to make up for all the ghastly Franchy days.

 

And consider this about why Bloom spends more on hitters rather than high-end pitchers -- entertainment... Any serious fans know that all title teams focus first at the highest point on the diamond -- the hill, smack-dab in the middle of the field. But we, along with every GM, also knows that pitching is the most expensive commodity. Meanwhile, teams can still draw fans in a place like Fenway if they're bopping big flies off the Monstah!

 

Bloom spends more on hitters than pitchers due to safety. Chris Sale has of course vindicated this position many times over. Maybe he should have taken a more aggressive approach to adding outside pitching. That said - if you look past the noise for the signal - our pitching has actually been quite good. And Cora has been consistently very good at handing the controls there.

 

Bloom's issue has been nearly totally ignoring the whole "catching the ball" thing despite that being an absolute lynchpin of what makes Tampa go.

[Bellhorn04]

We did not trade 4 or 10 years of Betts for Verdugo and Wong. We traded a 60 game season of Betts for 5 years for Dugo and Wong.

 

I don't agree with this and never have. We didn't just trade 60 games, we gave up the chance of signing him to an extension, and we gave it up to the team that was in the best position to do it. It's quite possible the Dodgers wouldn't have made the trade if they didn't have designs on that.

 

This doesn't have any bearing on what Bloom got back, though. Time has shown that he did well.

[sk7326]

I don't agree with this and never have. We didn't just trade 60 games, we gave up the chance of signing him to an extension, and we gave it up to the team that was in the best position to do it. It's quite possible the Dodgers wouldn't have made the trade if they didn't have designs on that.

 

This doesn't have any bearing on what Bloom got back, though. Time has shown that he did well.

 

It is a terrific return considering the handcuffs ownership placed on the trade.

[moonslav59]

I don't agree with this and never have. We didn't just trade 60 games, we gave up the chance of signing him to an extension, and we gave it up to the team that was in the best position to do it. It's quite possible the Dodgers wouldn't have made the trade if they didn't have designs on that.

 

This doesn't have any bearing on what Bloom got back, though. Time has shown that he did well.

100% Bloom could not have signed Betts. That makes it a one season of Betts trade.

 

Then, the Price inclusion was the kicker.

 

The trade was a very good one.

 

Not extending Betts was a separate issue and one I feel was a mistake… just not Bloom’s.

[Bellhorn04]

100% Bloom could not have signed Betts. That makes it a one season of Betts trade.

 

Then, the Price inclusion was the kicker.

 

The trade was a very good one.

 

Not extending Betts was a separate issue and one I feel was a mistake… just not Bloom’s.

 

Yeah, I think we're talking about 2 separate things. From the Dodgers perspective, I think they were looking at it as getting 60 games plus the chance to keep him. That's what I'm getting at. That's what made it a potentially great trade for them.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, I think we're talking about 2 separate things. From the Dodgers perspective, I think they were looking at it as getting 60 games plus the chance to keep him. That's what I'm getting at. That's what made it a potentially great trade for them.

 

It looks like a rare win-win trade

[Bellhorn04]

It looks like a rare win-win trade

 

Yes, a win-win trade that still makes me sad.

[moonslav59]

Yes, a win-win trade that still makes me sad.

 

Me, too.

 

I once suggested offering him $400M/14.