The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[moonslav59]

Kike did a good job in CF, but I don’t think I would call him the best CF the Sox have ever had. Piersall,and Lynne were pretty good not to mention JBJ.

 

I didn't mean to slight any of the guys you mentioned, but from what I saw with Kike, I think he was the best- short sample and all.

 

Rick Miller was pretty good, too.

[Old Red]

I didn't mean to slight any of the guys you mentioned, but from what I saw with Kike, I think he was the best- short sample and all.

 

Rick Miller was pretty good, too.

 

Rick Miller was pretty good, but Lynne was better, and JBJ was better than Lynne. Don’t mistake diving catches with being good, or great. Some get a better jump on the ball, and don’t get as many diving catches. Even your guy Tommy made lots of diving catches.

[moonslav59]

@alexspeier

Bloom on catching situation and Vazquez: "You don't take it for granted when you have someone who's shown he can do it."

 

Huh?

 

I guess I need access to the stats Bloom has. This could also just be media speak.

 

He's building him up for a trade.

[moonslav59]

Rick Miller was pretty good, but Lynne was better, and JBJ was better than Lynne. Don’t mistake diving catches with being good, or great. Some get a better jump on the ball, and don’t get as many diving catches. Even your guy Tommy made lots of diving catches.

 

I read the part about Kike taking bad routes to the ball, but he has the quickest first step I have seen. (No, I can't prove it.)

 

It's a close call.

 

I was JBJ's biggest fan for many years, and I loved Lynn, too.

 

Maybe the fact that we have not had really great defense in CF since JBJ's early and middle career is blinding me.

 

It's just my opinion, and I respect anyone who thinks JBJ or Lynn were better. They both had larger sample sizes, for sure.

[Old Red]

I read the part about Kike taking bad routes to the ball, but he has the quickest first step I have seen. (No, I can't prove it.)

 

It's a close call.

 

I was JBJ's biggest fan for many years, and I loved Lynn, too.

 

Maybe the fact that we have not had really great defense in CF since JBJ's early and middle career is blinding me.

 

It's just my opinion, and I respect anyone who thinks JBJ or Lynn were better. They both had larger sample sizes, for sure.

 

I didn’t see Piersall, and maybe some on here have, but I heard he was pretty good.

[Bellhorn04]

@alexspeier

Bloom on catching situation and Vazquez: "You don't take it for granted when you have someone who's shown he can do it."

 

Huh?

 

I guess I need access to the stats Bloom has. This could also just be media speak.

 

Wow, does this mean he doesn't rely solely on FanGraphs?

[mvp 78]

I read the part about Kike taking bad routes to the ball, but he has the quickest first step I have seen. (No, I can't prove it.)

 

It's a close call.

 

I was JBJ's biggest fan for many years, and I loved Lynn, too.

 

Maybe the fact that we have not had really great defense in CF since JBJ's early and middle career is blinding me.

 

It's just my opinion, and I respect anyone who thinks JBJ or Lynn were better. They both had larger sample sizes, for sure.

 

Hard to compare over different decades. Kiké was good, but I'd put him below JBJ. I never bought into JBJ being the best CFer EVER like some posters said. Give me a young Andruw Jones or peak Griffey Jr. Best current CFer is probably Kiermaier.

[mvp 78]

Wow, does this mean he doesn't rely solely on FanGraphs?

 

Heresy

[moonslav59]

Hard to compare over different decades. Kiké was good, but I'd put him below JBJ. I never bought into JBJ being the best CFer EVER like some posters said. Give me a young Andruw Jones or peak Griffey Jr. Best current CFer is probably Kiermaier.

 

I agree. I never called JBJ even the best in MLB in any given season, but he was close, some years.

 

I do think he was a tiny bit better than Lynn, but no arguments from any that think differently.

[Old Red]

I agree. I never called JBJ even the best in MLB in any given season, but he was close, some years.

 

I do think he was a tiny bit better than Lynn, but no arguments from any that think differently.

 

A guy named Mays was pretty good too.

[moonslav59]

A guy named Mays was pretty good too.

 

He didn't play for the Sox, and that was all I was talking about.

 

JBJ is better than Kike, if you factor in longevity.

Edited October 25, 2021 by moonslav59

[a700hitter]

Franchy Cordero has been outrighted and removed from the 40 man roster.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/10/red-sox-designate-franchy-cordero-for-assignment.html

[Old Red]

He didn't play for the Sox, and that was all I was talking about.

 

JBJ is better than Kike, if you factor in longevity.

 

Your right about Mays, and I thought I was responding to another poster. If JBJ could have just hit a little better he might have stayed in Boston longer.

[moonslav59]

Your right about Mays, and I thought I was responding to another poster. If JBJ could have just hit a little better he might have stayed in Boston longer.

 

He may still be here, if he didn't want and get so much money.

[moonslav59]

Major League Work Stoppage on December 2nd?

 

https://www.click2houston.com/sports/2021/10/24/major-league-baseball-work-stoppage-almost-certain-on-dec-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=kprc2&fbclid=IwAR1zQKQJ6c_T_0cEcQJ3Y5TwXKdzLHbv0GgAwexyrbGqVObefbe7llBvHvs

[Nick]

I'd take Betts over Kike. Kike plays deep. Betts was not afraid to go back on balls. Visually Betts looked to cover more grounds.

[oldtimer]

As I remember our last 3 games of the ALCS, we lost because we couldn't hit. Our pitching was solid except for one inning a game. Renfroe was a sure out, sometimes two. Dalbec wasn't used. I take the position that we would be smart to add a top FA outfielder and trade Renfroe or at least move him to the 4th slot. We could do better at 1st base but Dalbec at least should he kept.

 

Where are the guys like Rod Carew and Cecil Cooper, who were hitting machines. Need to stop swinging for the fences and go back to moving the line.

 

Notin seems to have something negative to say about Duran with every post. He still is our best outfield prospect and hardly got his feet wet in 2021. I'm for keeping him as our 4th outfielder. He would be inexpensive and could surprise in 2022.

[vegasbob]

Major League Work Stoppage on December 2nd?

 

https://www.click2houston.com/sports/2021/10/24/major-league-baseball-work-stoppage-almost-certain-on-dec-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=kprc2&fbclid=IwAR1zQKQJ6c_T_0cEcQJ3Y5TwXKdzLHbv0GgAwexyrbGqVObefbe7llBvHvs

 

This, to me, is the real off season story. The MLBPA and Owners are far apart and history shows that they both use brinkmanship as a tactic, letting the paying customers twist in the wind. It will delay FA signings until February , although trades could move more timely. A lockout going into ST is a real possibility. It will make for a delayed and miserable off season since nothing will seem to get done for the n3ext 4 months.

[moonslav59]

This, to me, is the real off season story. The MLBPA and Owners are far apart and history shows that they both use brinkmanship as a tactic, letting the paying customers twist in the wind. It will delay FA signings until February , although trades could move more timely. A lockout going into ST is a real possibility. It will make for a delayed and miserable off season since nothing will seem to get done for the n3ext 4 months.

 

You’d hope both sides would realize how fragile everything is these days.

 

I’m hopeful they can get this done quickly.

[Tedballgame]

You’d hope both sides would realize how fragile everything is these days.

 

I’m hopeful they can get this done quickly.

 

It will not get done quickly and it will have a big effect on FA signings. That is probably more reason to J.D. not to opt out and for Schwarber not to sign early. The luxury tax threshold is a key issue. Teams won't sign big money guys without knowing what it is going to be.

[a700hitter]

I really want the team to keep Bogaerts, but I am betting that he gets traded this offseason after seeing the story on the Red Sox site that XB plans to opt out after 2022. This smells like a planted story without any sources. It will make it easier for the team to move him and explain it to the fans. It is a scumbag tactic imo.

[notin]

I really want the team to keep Bogaerts, but I am betting that he gets traded this offseason after seeing the story on the Red Sox site that XB plans to opt out after 2022. This smells like a planted story without any sources. It will make it easier for the team to move him and explain it to the fans. It is a scumbag tactic imo.

 

Why bother explaining, beyond saying this is the plan going forward?

 

I never saw any follow up to the Betts trade beyond the normal "direction going forward" stuff. And while his negotiations got pretty public, they were also going on for a few years.

 

Some fans might get upset if they deal Bogaerts, but it's not like this requires some sort of special planted story. Player salaries and contracts are all so public now (to an extent) that suspecting dealing Bogerts this off-season is hardly new conjecture. I've been throwing out the possibility on this bard for months, and I pay very little attention to the Boston media.

 

And story or not, that Bogaerts plans to opt out hardly qualifies as news. There's a reason that clause was put in there in the first place. Of course, one could argue that by making X's decision to opt out public, the Sox would be risking making it even harder to deal him...

Edited October 26, 2021 by notin

[mvp 78]

Extend Devers and Bogaerts should be plan 1. Edited October 26, 2021 by mvp 78

[notin]

Extend Betts and Bogaerts should be plan 1.

 

Wrong off-season...

[mvp 78]

Wrong off-season...

 

Whoops.

[notin]

Extend Betts and Bogaerts should be plan 1.

 

Let's say the Sox do plan to trade Bogaerts.

 

First, is this really the right off-season? Any team willing to spend on a shortstop can go sign Carlos Correa or Corey Seager or Javier Baez or Trevor Story and not give up any prospects beyond the draft pick, and also get them for more than a single season of control.

 

So any team interested in Bogaerts will be a team that 1) needs a shortstop 2) has a significant budget 3) plans to be competitive in 2022 and 4) cannot afford the free agent players listed above.

 

Obviosuly the teams losing those shortstops should candidates, but the Dodgers appear to have already filled Seager's role. The Cubs and Rockies are not likely to be very competitive next season. That leaves the Astros as one potential target,

 

Maybe the Phillies? One could argue the Yankees fit the criteria, but I think they are a likely landing spot for Seager and his left-handed bat. And even if they weren't, the Sox are not dealing them Bogaerts (I hope). An maybe we can add the giants to that list, since they undoubtedly plan to try and get back in the battle for the AL West, and while they are losing Brandon Crawford to free agency, they also have a lot of other money coming off their books. So they might be spenders and grab one of the 4.

 

So the Astros or the Phillies.

 

No one wants the Astros. Let them go sign Freddy Galvis.

 

That leaves the Phillies. Per BTV, Bogaerts (with 1 year left) has a surplus value of $32.4 million. This makes him roughly equal to Philly RHRP/RHSP Ranger Suarez ($29.4 mill) or maybe a package of former 1st round pick RHP Mick Abel, AA Shortstop BRyson Stott, and the contract of Jean Segura (1 yr/$15.8 mill).

 

The flaw in this plan is the Phillies might just as well go forward with Stott and Segura up the middle next season and allow themselves to hold on to the pitching depth.

 

So where would Bogaerts go?.

 

The Giants? For prospects?

[moonslav59]

Let's say the Sox do plan to trade Bogaerts.

 

First, is this really the right off-season? Any team willing to spend on a shortstop can go sign Carlos Correa or Corey Seager or Javier Baez or Trevor Story and not give up any prospects beyond the draft pick, and also get them for more than a single season of control.

 

So any team interested in Bogaerts will be a team that 1) needs a shortstop 2) has a significant budget 3) plans to be competitive in 2022 and 4) cannot afford the free agent players listed above.

 

Obviosuly the teams losing those shortstops should candidates, but the Dodgers appear to have already filled Seager's role. The Cubs and Rockies are not likely to be very competitive next season. That leaves the Astros as one potential target,

 

Maybe the Phillies? One could argue the Yankees fit the criteria, but I think they are a likely landing spot for Seager and his left-handed bat. And even if they weren't, the Sox are not dealing them Bogaerts (I hope). An maybe we can add the giants to that list, since they undoubtedly plan to try and get back in the battle for the AL West, and while they are losing Brandon Crawford to free agency, they also have a lot of other money coming off their books. So they might be spenders and grab one of the 4.

 

So the Astros or the Phillies.

 

No one wants the Astros. Let them go sign Freddy Galvis.

 

That leaves the Phillies. Per BTV, Bogaerts (with 1 year left) has a surplus value of $32.4 million. This makes him roughly equal to Philly RHRP/RHSP Ranger Suarez ($29.4 mill) or maybe a package of former 1st round pick RHP Mick Abel, AA Shortstop BRyson Stott, and the contract of Jean Segura (1 yr/$15.8 mill).

 

The flaw in this plan is the Phillies might just as well go forward with Stott and Segura up the middle next season and allow themselves to hold on to the pitching depth.

 

So where would Bogaerts go?.

 

The Giants? For prospects?

 

Perhaps a third team might be involved, but I have thought of the Astros, Phillies and Yanks. The Giants look possible.

 

A lot might depend on the money aspect. If we take back some unwanted salary (or pay part of his salary), that could greatly increase the pool of teams interested.

 

I think it comes down to some GM really wanting him and thinking they can and will extend him. I'm not sure that man exists.

 

I just hope we don't lose him for a draft pick ONLY.

[Bellhorn04]

Perhaps a third team might be involved, but I have thought of the Astros, Phillies and Yanks. The Giants look possible.

 

A lot might depend on the money aspect. If we take back some unwanted salary (or pay part of his salary), that could greatly increase the pool of teams interested.

 

I think it comes down to some GM really wanting him and thinking they can and will extend him. I'm not sure that man exists.

 

I just hope we don't lose him for a draft pick ONLY.

 

Losing him for a draft pick isn't necessarily a disaster.

[moonslav59]

Losing him for a draft pick isn't necessarily a disaster.

 

We could do better.

 

It's a pick after the first round, plus added slot money, which is not bad, but we can and should do better.

 

If we wait to the deadline, it will be hard to trade him, if we are in the race.

[Bellhorn04]

We could do better.

 

It's a pick after the first round, plus added slot money, which is not bad, but we can and should do better.

 

If we wait to the deadline, it will be hard to trade him, if we are in the race.

 

Yep, you can't have it all.