The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Dojji]

There's also the fact that you could get Santana for much less talent than Mountcastle because of the additional money involved. Big market teams like the Red Sox need to be prepared to use their financial advantage to maximize their talent pool. you don't do that by making trades as if you are the Tampa Bay Rays. you do that by making controlled purchases that fill your budget without exceeding it, and by taking good risks with that money.

 

With that said, the Guardians are nearing the point (within the next year and a half) where they need to either extend Santana or see what they can get for him. This is the perfect time to swoop in with a reasonable offer and find out if the Guardians are ready to reposition their roster around youth and let go of some key veterans or not, because we can afford him, we have talent to offer in exchange, and we can carry Santana financially. And especially right now is a good time because it's the offseason, everyone has time to heal from various injuries and we're in no rush to make a trade so the pressure to overpay is low.

 

Frankly I really want Santana. I think Dalbec is a more than acceptable reserve 1B and Santana would give us some bargaining room with Martinez. Besides, he's really good and adds that so-important element of speed we lack currently.

 

Also, if I was going for young cost controlled guys I'd look for talent in areas we need, not areas where we have a glut of talent. The other possibility besides bringing in a big bat from outside is bringing in a big infield glove, the Royals have this great young kid, Nicky Lopez, that I'd give my left arm to get on the Sox, Xander or no Xander. Xander could easily move down the spectrum and play some second if we brought in a defensive specialist at SS, and it might be the way to go moving forward. I'd take Lopez over 5 Mountcastles.

[notin]

There's also the fact that you could get Santana for much less talent than Mountcastle because of the additional money involved. Big market teams like the Red Sox need to be prepared to use their financial advantage to maximize their talent pool. you don't do that by making trades as if you are the Tampa Bay Rays. you do that by making controlled purchases that fill your budget without exceeding it, and by taking good risks with that money.

 

With that said, the Guardians are nearing the point (within the next year and a half) where they need to either extend Santana or see what they can get for him. This is the perfect time to swoop in with a reasonable offer and find out if the Guardians are ready to reposition their roster around youth and let go of some key veterans or not, because we can afford him, we have talent to offer in exchange, and we can carry Santana financially. And especially right now is a good time because it's the offseason, everyone has time to heal from various injuries and we're in no rush to make a trade so the pressure to overpay is low.

 

Frankly I really want Santana. I think Dalbec is a more than acceptable reserve 1B and Santana would give us some bargaining room with Martinez. Besides, he's really good and adds that so-important element of speed we lack currently.

 

Also, if I was going for young cost controlled guys I'd look for talent in areas we need, not areas where we have a glut of talent. The other possibility besides bringing in a big bat from outside is bringing in a big infield glove, the Royals have this great young kid, Nicky Lopez, that I'd give my left arm to get on the Sox, Xander or no Xander. Xander could easily move down the spectrum and play some second if we brought in a defensive specialist at SS, and it might be the way to go moving forward. I'd take Lopez over 5 Mountcastles.

 

What Santana are you talking about?

 

There are more guys named Santana on the Red Sox than on the Guardians..

[Dojji]

What Santana are you talking about?

 

There are more guys named Santana on the Red Sox than on the Guardians..

 

Goddamnit.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirjo01.shtml

 

Ramirez, not santana. I am a derp. I looked at "Ramirez" and still thought "Santana" for no good reason.

[moonslav59]

We already have three 3Bmen: Devers, Dalbec & Bogey.

[notin]

Goddamnit.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirjo01.shtml

 

Ramirez, not santana. I am a derp. I looked at "Ramirez" and still thought "Santana" for no good reason.

 

OK.

 

Makes more sense than my thinking you meant 36yo Carlos Santana, who is currently on the Royals.

 

Obviously Ramirez would be a major coup. But with 2 years and $24mill left on his deal, Cleveland is in no rush to move him and when they do decide to, there will be no shortage of interested teams. The only way to get him might be to have no prospects that are off limits. BTV allows packages of Casas and Yorke or Mayer, Duran and Bello. Assuming Cleveland likes either package andgets no better offers.

 

Also, small point, but there are no more "Guardians". The name is officially dead and we need to get used to calling them the Guardians...

[notin]

We already have three 3Bmen: Devers, Dalbec & Bogey.

 

But how many good defensive ones?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

OK.

 

Makes more sense than my thinking you meant 36yo Carlos Santana, who is currently on the Royals.

 

Obviously Ramirez would be a major coup. But with 2 years and $24mill left on his deal, Cleveland is in no rush to move him and when they do decide to, there will be no shortage of interested teams. The only way to get him might be to have no prospects that are off limits. BTV allows packages of Casas and Yorke or Mayer, Duran and Bello. Assuming Cleveland likes either package andgets no better offers.

 

Also, small point, but there are no more "Guardians". The name is officially dead and we need to get used to calling them the Guardians...

 

Ya, I looked at hard at Ramirez last night when posters suggested signing Baez. Jose is no Gold Glover, but also plays second base and is a 30-100 infielder who struck out almost 100 less times than Baez this year. He just turned 29 and has already had three seasons of WAR higher than any in Baez' career (when he finished 2nd, 3rd and 3rd in AL MVP voting); that's Mookie-like.

 

I stopped looking when the trade simulator said Ramirez' value is about equal to Bogaerts plus Houck...

 

The Guards will ask for the Moon -- and rightfully so (but all Bloom can offer is maybe 2 or 3GGs; not even 5GGs)

[mvp 78]

Goddamnit.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirjo01.shtml

 

Ramirez, not santana. I am a derp. I looked at "Ramirez" and still thought "Santana" for no good reason.

 

I don't think I realized Ramirez stole that many bases.

[mvp 78]

Ya, I looked at hard at Ramirez last night when posters suggested signing Baez. Jose is no Gold Glover, but also plays second base and is a 30-100 infielder who struck out almost 100 less times than Baez this year. He just turned 29 and has already had three seasons of WAR higher than any in Baez' career (when he finished 2nd, 3rd and 3rd in AL MVP voting); that's Mookie-like.

 

I stopped looking when the trade simulator said Ramirez' value is about equal to Bogaerts plus Houck...

 

The Guards will ask for the Moon -- and rightfully so (but all Bloom can offer is maybe 2 or 3GGs; not even 5GGs)

 

Ramirez plays 2b?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ramirez plays 2b?

 

He used to; one of the years he was third in MVP he split playing 2nd and 3rd. Infielders move around, according to team need, like Semien did (when will Bogie?).

[moonslav59]

But how many good defensive ones?

 

.75

[mvp 78]

He used to; one of the years he was third in MVP he split playing 2nd and 3rd. Infielders move around, according to team need, like Semien did (when will Bogie?).

 

Since 2018, he's only played 16 games at 2b. Seems unlikely he goes back there. I guess he could for a different org.

[notin]

Ya, I looked at hard at Ramirez last night when posters suggested signing Baez. Jose is no Gold Glover, but also plays second base and is a 30-100 infielder who struck out almost 100 less times than Baez this year. He just turned 29 and has already had three seasons of WAR higher than any in Baez' career (when he finished 2nd, 3rd and 3rd in AL MVP voting); that's Mookie-like.

 

I stopped looking when the trade simulator said Ramirez' value is about equal to Bogaerts plus Houck...

 

The Guards will ask for the Moon -- and rightfully so (but all Bloom can offer is maybe 2 or 3GGs; not even 5GGs)

 

Actually, Bogaerts plus Houck does seem reasonable for Ramires (I mean, beyond the fact that Cleveland would not make the deal).

 

Don't forget it's 2 years of Ramirez at $24mill (which makes him less than one half the cost of Betts at the time of his trade) for one year of a lesser but more expensive player in Bogaerts ($20mill) plus Houck. How does that seem so ridiculous to you? Would you have traded one year of Bogaerts plus Houck for Betts? You did compare the two...

[Dojji]

We already have three 3Bmen: Devers, Dalbec & Bogey.

 

Devers is a solid-not-great defender who could move to first and potentially be elite there. If you've got the agility to be adequate at 3B, that plays really well at 1B. It worked for Kevin Youkilis.

 

Bogaerts is an average defender at SS and can hold the position if he needs to for a few more years.

 

Dalbec is a useful situational hitter and would be best used in a platoon to hit against LHPs Ramirez has multipositional utility and it would not be a stretch either to move Devers to first, or simply move Ramirez to first. Probably would move Devers.

 

Honestly a Dalbec-Devers platoon at 1B has enormous potential, with Devers perhaps sliding to DH when you want both on the field.

 

(dangit I nearly called him Santana AGAIN!)

[moonslav59]

Devers is a solid-not-great defender who could move to first and potentially be elite there. If you've got the agility to be adequate at 3B, that plays really well at 1B. It worked for Kevin Youkilis.

 

Bogaerts is an average defender at SS and can hold the position if he needs to for a few more years.

 

Dalbec is a useful situational hitter and would be best used in a platoon to hit against LHPs Ramirez has multipositional utility and it would not be a stretch either to move Devers to first, or simply move Ramirez to first. Probably would move Devers.

 

Honestly a Dalbec-Devers platoon at 1B has enormous potential, with Devers perhaps sliding to DH when you want both on the field.

 

(dangit I nearly called him Santana AGAIN!)

 

Do you really think 3B is our most pressing need, or is Jose "Santana" Ramirez your son?

[Dojji]

Do you really think 3B is our most pressing need, or is Jose "Santana" Ramirez your son?

 

I think speed is our most important need. Ramirez is a way to add speed without sacrificing power. there's other options obviously, but the bottom line is that the Red Sox need to get better at situational speed if they are going to win more baseball games than they currently are.

 

The traditional speed positions are SS, 2B and CF. Kike's great but he's not a baserunner. Bogaerts is a power hitter. And God even knows who we're going to have at second next year. Meanwhile our catcher is leading the league in steals, which isn't a huge issue as it suggests what i already know -- that this team has no real speed.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

Do you really think 3B is our most pressing need, or is Jose "Santana" Ramirez your son?

 

Ramirez is a pretty good ballplayer, even if we don't see a need for him right now. We didn't exactly have a Schwarber sized hole on 7/31, but Bloom nabbed him.

[moonslav59]

Ramirez is a pretty good ballplayer, even if we don't see a need for him right now. We didn't exactly have a Schwarber sized hole on 7/31, but Bloom nabbed him.

 

I'd love to have him, but 3B?

 

Actually, on 7/31, we had a huge hole at 1B, and playing Kike at 2B looked like it might be needed- opening up an OF slot.

[moonslav59]

I think speed is our most important need. Ramirez is a way to add speed without sacrificing power. there's other options obviously, but the bottom line is that the Red Sox need to get better at situational speed if they are going to win more baseball games than they currently are.

 

The traditional speed positions are SS, 2B and CF. Kike's great but he's not a baserunner. Bogaerts is a power hitter. And God even knows who we're going to have at second next year. Meanwhile our catcher is leading the league in steals, which isn't a huge issue as it suggests what i already know -- that this team has no real speed.

 

Speed seems to be less and less important, but I do think it would be nice to add some, but I think we have way more important needs, and trading for Ramirez would cost us several top young prospects.

[Dojji]

Speed seems to be less and less important, but I do think it would be nice to add some, but I think we have way more important needs, and trading for Ramirez would cost us several top young prospects.

 

A catcher. led the team. In stolen bases. it's one thing to not sweat speed if you have decent speed, but when you have NONE AT ALL, you are in a large situational hole.

 

Speed is one of those things where you don't need it until you suddenly do. And if you need it and don't have it you drop playoff games.

 

I still wonder if we'd had some actual speed if we might have gotten past the Astros. We had a fighting chance you know, and a station to station team with no speed turns a lot of potential runs to LOBs

[Dojji]

The Red Sox have never won the World Series without having above average speed somewhere on the roster. 2004 had Damon, Roberts, and a bit of Cabrera. 2007 had Ellsbury, Crisp and Pedroia. 13 had Ellsbury, Pedey and the Flyin' Hawiian. 18 had Betts and Beni. Right now, we've got 0 speed in our starting 9. the fasterst starter on the roster is a damn catcher. That's the biggest difference between 18 and 21 is the lack of speed. I think that needs to be addressed, and history agrees with me Edited October 28, 2021 by Dojji

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox have never won the World Series without having above average speed somewhere on the roster. 2004 had Damon, Roberts, and a bit of Cabrera. 2007 had Ellsbury, Crisp and Pedroia. 13 had Ellsbury, Pedey and the Flyin' Hawiian. 18 had Betts and Beni. Right now, we've got 0 speed in our starting 9. the fasterst starter on the roster is a damn catcher. That's the biggest difference between 18 and 21 is the lack of speed. I think that needs to be addressed, and history agrees with me

 

Our fastest player is not Vaz.

We won one year with a PR that was fast.

 

I'd like to see some speed in our OF that also improves our defense.

 

I do think speed is a priority- just not close to #1.

 

We also won all our 4 rings by having 2 very good SP'ers. We don't have that now.

 

One can argue Eovaldi is not as good as any of our previous champion aces and maybe even not better than those winning team's #2.

[Bellhorn04]

A catcher. led the team. In stolen bases. it's one thing to not sweat speed if you have decent speed, but when you have NONE AT ALL, you are in a large situational hole.

 

Speed is one of those things where you don't need it until you suddenly do. And if you need it and don't have it you drop playoff games.

 

I still wonder if we'd had some actual speed if we might have gotten past the Astros. We had a fighting chance you know, and a station to station team with no speed turns a lot of potential runs to LOBs

 

We "almost" swept the Astros, with the bullpen blowing leads in games 1 and 4.

[notin]

A catcher. led the team. In stolen bases. it's one thing to not sweat speed if you have decent speed, but when you have NONE AT ALL, you are in a large situational hole.

 

Speed is one of those things where you don't need it until you suddenly do. And if you need it and don't have it you drop playoff games.

 

I still wonder if we'd had some actual speed if we might have gotten past the Astros. We had a fighting chance you know, and a station to station team with no speed turns a lot of potential runs to LOBs

 

 

 

The Sox had 8 baserunners total in the last two playoff games with Houston. The problem wasn't leaving runners on base. It was getting them there in the first place...

[moonslav59]

The Sox had 8 baserunners total in the last two playoff games with Houston. The problem wasn't leaving runners on base. It was getting them there in the first place...

 

We could have run faster on our grand slams, too.

[notin]

The Red Sox have never won the World Series without having above average speed somewhere on the roster. 2004 had Damon, Roberts, and a bit of Cabrera. 2007 had Ellsbury, Crisp and Pedroia. 13 had Ellsbury, Pedey and the Flyin' Hawiian. 18 had Betts and Beni. Right now, we've got 0 speed in our starting 9. the fasterst starter on the roster is a damn catcher. That's the biggest difference between 18 and 21 is the lack of speed. I think that needs to be addressed, and history agrees with me

 

Speed is not measured in stolen bases. Speed helps with stolen bases, but there is a lot more at play there than just speed. SBs are their own skillset.

 

And it does seem disingenuous to count Dave Roberts in 2004 but not Danny Santana in 2021.

 

Despite leading the team in steals, Vazquez was the second slowest runner on the 2021 Red Sox, with a speed of 25.2 ft/sec, barely finishing ahead of Travis Shaw (25.1 ft/sec) and being somehow behind Kevin "The Human Glacier" Plawecki.

 

The Sox did have some fast players, with the fastest being Jarren Duran by a lot (29.2 ft/sec), followed by Franchy Cordero, Jose Iglesias, Bobby Dalbec and Christian Arroyo to round out the top 5. Bogaeerts, Renfroe and Kike also all finished above league average, and Verdugo was almost right on the league average.

 

Source: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/sprint_speed?year=2021&position=&team=BOS&min=10

Edited October 28, 2021 by notin

[oldtimer]

Our fastest player is not Vaz.

We won one year with a PR that was fast.

 

I'd like to see some speed in our OF that also improves our defense.

 

I do think speed is a priority- just not close to #1.

 

We also won all our 4 rings by having 2 very good SP'ers. We don't have that now.

 

One can argue Eovaldi is not as good as any of our previous champion aces and maybe even not better than those winning team's #2.

 

If all you are looking at is base stealing, then you are missing the three infield hits so far in the WS. Two by the Braves and one by the Astros. There is also the ability to get an extra base which some of our players just cannot do. Speed also helps defensive range as well. Given a chance to improve team speed, I would seriously consider it.

[notin]

We "almost" swept the Astros, with the bullpen blowing leads in games 1 and 4.

 

If only those 2 games were played as a double header at 7 innings apiece...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Speed is not measured in stolen bases.

 

The Sox did have some fast players, with the fastest being Jarren Duran by a lot (29.2 ft/sec), followed by Franchy Cordero, Jose Iglesias, Bobby Dalbec and Christian Arroyo to round out the top 5.

 

That was my point, about the Sox not having anyone like Arozarena, who scores from first on a liner over shortstop. I even mentioned it before the ALDS, when comparing the contestants.

 

To Dojii's point, none of the top four fastest Red Sox on this list were regulars in the postseason (the top three weren't even on the roster).

 

As for Bogaerts' trade market, I'd like think a team willing to deal value for a starting All-Star in his prime would do so with the intention of trying to keep him (somewhere on the diamond)... like LA did, I'm sure, when the concept of acquiring Betts originated. A swap of Bogie and Houck for Ramirez replaces the offense we'd lose but further hammers the club weakness: the arms' race. It would be like treating a strained achilles with a Buck knife.

 

At this point, I'd rather keep Houck, take a draft pick when X leaves, and watch a cheap glove man keep shortstop warm for a couple years until the Mayer Era begins.

[Dojji]

That was my point, about the Sox not having anyone like Arozarena, who scores from first on a liner over shortstop. I even mentioned it before the ALDS, when comparing the contestants.

 

To Dojii's point, none of the top four fastest Red Sox on this list were regulars in the postseason (the top three weren't even on the roster).

 

As for Bogaerts' trade market, I'd like think a team willing to deal value for a starting All-Star in his prime would do so with the intention of trying to keep him (somewhere on the diamond)... like LA did, I'm sure, when the concept of acquiring Betts originated. A swap of Bogie and Houck for Ramirez replaces the offense we'd lose but further hammers the club weakness: the arms' race. It would be like treating a strained achilles with a Buck knife.

 

At this point, I'd rather keep Houck, take a draft pick when X leaves, and watch a cheap glove man keep shortstop warm for a couple years until the Mayer Era begins.

 

And the only reason I disagree with that is that we just came within spitting distance of a World Series appearance. i think it's OK to take some risks and see if we can build on that rather than trying to forget what happened this year. After all, the long term plan was to GET HERE. We're ALREADY HERE. In that sense Wren has done an amazing job but if you can't switch from "rebuilding" into "contending" when an opportunity falls into your lap... well that's the difference between a good GM and a great GM.

 

Also while i don't disagree with you about the so called "arms race" but I don't think it's mutually exclusive with building speed into the lineup. Again, this isn't the royals. We can do two things.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Dojji