Clay Buchholz - Is he worth the 2016 option?

[User Name]

Of course they matter, but he is what he is and what he is is why he's getting $13M next year ( hope) and not David Price money.

 

Out of the two though, I think it's way easier to pencil in Price for a great season than Buch. I'm penciling in Buch for an excellent half-season following (or directly followed by) a lost half-season due to injury. Next season will be more worthy of a $13 mill salary than this one though.

[S5Dewey]

Out of the two though, I think it's way easier to pencil in Price for a great season than Buch. I'm penciling in Buch for an excellent half-season following (or directly followed by) a lost half-season due to injury. Next season will be more worthy of a $13 mill salary than this one though.

 

Wow. Really? Did you see my earlier post today about "where would we be without him"?

[Slasher9]

The problem is that Buchholz, like Price, is part of the reason why we didn't run away with the AL East. What he's doing is redeeming the s***-fest that was his first half. Or do first half games not matter?

 

now who is comparing clay and price?

 

cant make this stuff up. i swear.

[mvp 78]

Wow. Really? Did you see my earlier post today about "where would we be without him"?

 

Where would we be without Pomeranz? Where would we be without that terrible David Price? Where would we be without Kimbrel?

 

In all honesty, no one really knows.

 

DUMBrowski built a roster that won the AL East. Can't complain too much.

[User Name]

now who is comparing clay and price?

 

cant make this stuff up. i swear.

 

I did not compare them. I said they were both pretty bad in the first half of the season. Do you know what a comparison is? Do you even English?

[User Name]

Where would we be without Pomeranz? Where would we be without that terrible David Price? Where would we be without Kimbrel?

 

In all honesty, no one really knows.

 

DUMBrowski built a roster that won the AL East. Can't complain too much.

 

/endargument

[S5Dewey]

Where would we be without Pomeranz? Where would we be without that terrible David Price? Where would we be without Kimbrel?

 

In all honesty, no one really knows.

 

DUMBrowski built a roster that won the AL East. Can't complain too much.

 

Well, yes, but the discussion here is Clay Buchholz. When Wright went down with the injury - and without another discussion about how stupid it was to have him running anyway - Clay stepped up and, frankly, probably did BETTER than Wright would have done. Without Clay we're starting ...who?, Henry Owens?...every 5th day?

[SoxnCycles]

now who is comparing clay and price?

 

cant make this stuff up. i swear.

 

Not to mention, a player's entire season record matters, unless his name is Price.

[Slasher9]

Where would we be without Pomeranz? Where would we be without that terrible David Price? Where would we be without Kimbrel?

 

In all honesty, no one really knows.

 

DUMBrowski built a roster that won the AL East. Can't complain too much.

 

how many posts did you make this season where you complained "if only we had a 5th starter that could be sub 7 ERA we would be in first place"?

how many times?

well, the second half Clay stepped up and became the sub 3.4 ERA starter. and lo and behold we won the ALE.

so i guess you were right for all those posts you made. but now you are denying that the #5 (Clay) SP was the most important factor of us succeeding in 2016 regular season?

 

you cant make this stuff up....

[Slasher9]

/endargument

 

was it dombrowski roster or JF managing of it???

lol

[Emp9]

I'm more inclinded to excercise his option after last night. But good news seems to always come with bad news: I think we need a new Closer.

[mvp 78]

Well, yes, but the discussion here is Clay Buchholz. When Wright went down with the injury - and without another discussion about how stupid it was to have him running anyway - Clay stepped up and, frankly, probably did BETTER than Wright would have done. Without Clay we're starting ...who?, Henry Owens?...every 5th day?

 

Without Pomeranz, who would we be starting?

[mvp 78]

was it dombrowski roster or JF managing of it???

lol

 

Both.

[mvp 78]

how many posts did you make this season where you complained "if only we had a 5th starter that could be sub 7 ERA we would be in first place"?

how many times?

well, the second half Clay stepped up and became the sub 3.4 ERA starter. and lo and behold we won the ALE.

so i guess you were right for all those posts you made. but now you are denying that the #5 (Clay) SP was the most important factor of us succeeding in 2016 regular season?

 

you cant make this stuff up....

 

"The most important factor in us succeeding" is a determination that is in the eye of the beholder. Was he the cog to us winning the AL East? Or was it Papi's transcendent season? Or was it Pedey having his best season in years? Or was it Porcello pitching like a CY? Or was it Mookie contending for MVP? Or was it JBJ becoming an All Star?

 

I'd take those 5 guys as bigger reasons we are in first place than Clay.

 

Did I want someone not named O'Sullivan or Owens pitching in the 5th spot? Of course! That doesn't mean it's the most important part of the roster.

[mvp 78]

was it dombrowski roster or JF managing of it???

lol

 

When someone doesn't understand that you can complain about someone on one hand, but give them credit on the other...

 

You can't make this stuff up...

[S5Dewey]

Without Pomeranz, who would we be starting?

 

With all due respect I think you're missing the point here. Yes, anyone COULD have gone down (where would we have been without Pom AND Wright?) but Wright DID go down and Clay stepped in and did the job admirably, and arguably better than Wright would have. [Remember the last time Wright tried to pitch in wet weather?]

[User Name]

Not to mention, a player's entire season record matters, unless his name is Price.

 

Did Price steal your lunch money or something?

[Slasher9]

With all due respect I think you're missing the point here. Yes, anyone COULD have gone down (where would we have been without Pom AND Wright?) but Wright DID go down and Clay stepped in and did the job admirably, and arguably better than Wright would have. [Remember the last time Wright tried to pitch in wet weather?]

 

wright was on an out of control downward spiral before he pinch ran and got broken. JF did the team a favor....

[Slasher9]

When someone doesn't understand that you can complain about someone on one hand, but give them credit on the other...

 

You can't make this stuff up...

 

when someone doesnt understand that if the team lost 11 in a row in september all the blame would have been on JF and zero on DD.

but since we won 11 in a row in september all the credit goes to the roster DD created and JF doesnt get mentioned.

[Slasher9]

"The most important factor in us succeeding" is a determination that is in the eye of the beholder. Was he the cog to us winning the AL East? Or was it Papi's transcendent season? Or was it Pedey having his best season in years? Or was it Porcello pitching like a CY? Or was it Mookie contending for MVP? Or was it JBJ becoming an All Star?

 

I'd take those 5 guys as bigger reasons we are in first place than Clay.

 

Did I want someone not named O'Sullivan or Owens pitching in the 5th spot? Of course! That doesn't mean it's the most important part of the roster.

 

i was just giving you credit for your endless claims beginning-mid season how a 5th starter is the reason we would make the postseason. you ended up being right but refuse to give Clay the credit for being that 5th starter that helped us to the postseason. now you are saying it was all the other reasons that some of us were saying all along.

 

Me? i was saying we needed Price to pitch like an Ace in order to make it. i was wrong. we made the postseason in spite of price acting like a 4/5 starter...

[sk7326]

Yes, I do find it frustrating that we can't even consider something like Schilling's postseason numbers meaningful. We almost have to define what 'meaningful' actually means in this context.

 

What is meaningful is that they are good numbers against a very high level of competition. Which probably is a better way to get to the answers people want.

[sk7326]

Wow. Really? Did you see my earlier post today about "where would we be without him"?

 

Smartest thing is pencil in Buchholz for 100 pretty good innings - I am not sure how they will appear, and most likely some of those innings will stink and stink in concentration. The argument against that is the severe lack of predictability. But 100 pretty good innings probably justifies a $13M contract - though the Red Sox are not getting any sort of bargain.

[S5Dewey]

Smartest thing is pencil in Buchholz for 100 pretty good innings - I am not sure how they will appear, and most likely some of those innings will stink and stink in concentration. The argument against that is the severe lack of predictability. But 100 pretty good innings probably justifies a $13M contract - though the Red Sox are not getting any sort of bargain.

 

I think I have mentioned once before that it would be ideal if we could clone Clay and have one of him pitch the first half of the season and the other Clay pitch the second half. I'd gladly pay $26M for that.

The real-time problem of course is that we never know which half of the season he's going to be good in so we can't prepare for it. But I'll still take "Good Clay" for half a season and $13M.

[Wade Boggs]

I have to chuckle over the multiple posters who were willing to DFA Buch earlier this year... not even trade him- just cut his ass!

 

Buch is a prime example of why you don't judge players over their most recent small sample size.

 

(This also means we should not think this recent Buch will be next year's Buch.)

 

 

That is correct. But one good half of Buchholz is worth the 13M. With injuries in your starting rotation that you never know. The FA market is thin. He might be a good option for that price. It's just one year money.

[Bellhorn04]

Me? i was saying we needed Price to pitch like an Ace in order to make it. i was wrong. we made the postseason in spite of price acting like a 4/5 starter...

 

C'mon Slash, you're not being reasonable at all. This reminds me of when Pumpsie Green used to say the same thing about Lester.

 

Price has 225 IP, an ERA+ of 113, a K/BB of 4.77, a bWAR of 2.9.

 

Saying he has pitched like a #2 is fair.

[Nick]

wright was on an out of control downward spiral before he pinch ran and got broken. JF did the team a favor....

 

I agree....he had lost his mojo.

[Bellhorn04]

Um, Wright had just pitched a complete game 3-hitter and had a 3.01 ERA when he got hurt.

[Spudboy]

Um, Wright had just pitched a complete game 3-hitter and had a 3.01 ERA when he got hurt.

 

He had also had the stinkers in the rain and high heat / high humidity where he had little control.

 

I think that is a problem that needs to be sorted out if he returns healthy next year.

 

I give Wright a Mulligan for the stinkers this year, though.

 

If he had remained healthy this year I believe that he would have been more effective than not.

[a700hitter]

C'mon Slash, you're not being reasonable at all. This reminds me of when Pumpsie Green used to say the same thing about Lester.

 

Price has 225 IP, an ERA+ of 113, a K/BB of 4.77, a bWAR of 2.9.

 

Saying he has pitched like a #2 is fair.

Price stinks. Let's hope that he opts out of his contract and we sign another FA pitcher for $300M.

[S5Dewey]

C'mon Slash, you're not being reasonable at all. This reminds me of when Pumpsie Green used to say the same thing about Lester.

 

OUCH! That one is going to leave a MARK! :D