Clay Buchholz - Is he worth the 2016 option?

[a700hitter]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2016-pitching-leaders.shtml

 

So, which number impress you?

 

Price is #1 hits. That awesome!

#10 in HRs! Woohoo!

 

Nowhere to be seen in the lists for:

WAR

ERA

WHIP

 

True that Price is no Pedro. I don't expect him to be.

I do expect him to be better than 20 other pitchers in the majors.

If those expectations are too high for you, you and the Price worshipers will have to find some way to get over it.

How do his numbers stack up in the second half. Luckily for us that the playoffs happen in the second half.

[Slasher9]

solid number.

how many did he get in the possible ALE clinching game?

 

1

(since A700 ignored answering)

[Slasher9]

How do his numbers stack up in the second half. Luckily for us that the playoffs happen in the second half.

 

how do his numbers stack up in the postseason? unlucky for us that the postseason happens in the postseason.....

[sk7326]

how do his numbers stack up in the postseason? unlucky for us that the postseason happens in the postseason.....

 

Has been clear hit or miss - sometimes manager was asleep when he has facing batters 4th time through ... he was obviously brilliant in the highest leverage spot of his career (as we'd know)

 

Farrell will manage more aggressively with this stuff in the postseason - he did in 2013. Nice thing the pen is in the position so that Farrell does not have to pay those 3rd and 4th time through penalties.

[SoxnCycles]

how do his numbers stack up in the postseason? unlucky for us that the postseason happens in the postseason.....

 

The Rangers are probably scared to death to face Price and his 2.032 WHIP against them.

[a700hitter]

1

(since A700 ignored answering)

We watched the game last night, so I though your question was rhetorical. I didn't realize that you didn't know the answer.

[a700hitter]

how do his numbers stack up in the postseason? unlucky for us that the postseason happens in the postseason.....

How do his numbers stack up in the second half? Don't deflect.

[Slasher9]

How do his numbers stack up in the second half? Don't deflect.

8-3 / 3.67 / 100 ip / 102H / 13HR / 20BB / 84K / 7.5 SO9 / 1.212 WHIP / .721 OPS / .264 BA

 

SO9 down from first half.

WHIP up from first half.

OPS up from first half.

BA up from first half.

 

am i looking at the wrong numbers?

[a700hitter]

8-3 / 3.67 / 100 ip / 102H / 13HR / 20BB / 84K / 7.5 SO9 / 1.212 WHIP / .721 OPS / .264 BA

 

SO9 down from first half.

WHIP up from first half.

OPS up from first half.

BA up from first half.

 

am i looking at the wrong numbers?

None of those measures were referenced in Sox N Cycles post. He was talking about comparative measures to other pitchers. To refresh your recollection since your scroll up feature apparently doesn't work, this is what he was looking at and I am asking how Price looks in the second half using these measures.

 

Price is #1 hits. That awesome!

#10 in HRs! Woohoo!

 

Nowhere to be seen in the lists for:

WAR

ERA

WHIP

 

[Slasher9]

None of those measures were referenced in Sox N Cycles post. He was talking about comparative measures to other pitchers. To refresh your recollection since your scroll up feature apparently doesn't work, this is what he was looking at and I am asking how Price looks in the second half using these measures.

 

so do you want me to look at hits and Hr's , WAR, ERA, WHIP?

it's kind of confusing.

well comparing his second half with first half as stated in my previous post his ERA & WHIP are higher in the second half.

His Hits per 9 is higher in the second half.

His HR per AB rate is about the same.

Hiis WAR is 2.9 for the season. i am unsure how to break it out per half.....

[a700hitter]

so do you want me to look at hits and Hr's , WAR, ERA, WHIP?

it's kind of confusing.

well comparing his second half with first half as stated in my previous post his ERA & WHIP are higher in the second half.

His Hits per 9 is higher in the second half.

His HR per AB rate is about the same.

Hiis WAR is 2.9 for the season. i am unsure how to break it out per half.....

Where is Price in the second half on the lists that Sox n Cycles mentioned? Lists comparing him to other pitchers, not stats comparing him to himself. I am guessing that you didn't have trouble understanding that, but chose to ignore it.

[Spudboy]

Which of Price's numbers this year impress you?

 

Number of starts, inning pitched, QS.

[SoxnCycles]

Number of starts, inning pitched, QS.

 

Show's he's healthy, at least.

[Spudboy]

Show's he's healthy, at least.

 

It shows that while he has not had his typical year that he is still reliable and keeps his team in a position to win a lot of the time.

[SoxnCycles]

It shows that while he has not had his typical year that he is still reliable and keeps his team in a position to win a lot of the time.

 

And I guess it's out of line to point out he failed to do that last night?

 

And while all those things make Price a good pitcher, it doesn't make him an "ace".

That idea seems to rile up a lot of of folks who don't mind ripping any other player on the team.

Edited September 28, 2016 by SoxnCycles

[Spudboy]

And I guess it's out of line to point out he failed to do that last night?

 

No it is not. He came up way short of the desired result.

 

s*** happens. That's baseball.

[SoxnCycles]

No it is not. He came up way short of the desired result.

 

s*** happens. That's baseball.

 

I hope s*** doesn't happen next month.

But, I don't have the warm and fuzzies about his starts.

[S5Dewey]

My concern right now about Price is exactly what it was when we signed him.

 

Price has always been the pitcher who can get you to the playoffs, but not the pitcher who can get you beyond them. I'm hoping this year will be different.

[a700hitter]

No it is not. He came up way short of the desired result.

 

s*** happens. That's baseball.

I guess people expected to run the table until the end of the season.

[sk7326]

best pitcher i ever saw in the best season i saw him pitch gave up 9 runs without being able to get out of the 4th in an outing ... there has been more ace than not later in the season. the narrative about him in the post season is silly - but clearly without changing results it will follow him (like is does with kershaw).

[S5Dewey]

best pitcher i ever saw in the best season i saw him pitch gave up 9 runs without being able to get out of the 4th in an outing ... there has been more ace than not later in the season. the narrative about him in the post season is silly - but clearly without changing results it will follow him (like is does with kershaw).

 

I disagree. The narrative about him in the post season is not silly, it's a real reason for concern. We're not talking about one series or one year or even two. We're talking about eight post season appearances and an ERA >5.00. You can say that it's a small sample size all you want but it's the only sample size we've got and it encompasses six different seasons.

 

There's been a lot of talk about 'clutch' but only as it refers to hitting. I've always maintained that a pitcher has to be more 'clutch' than a hitter, only because a hitter only has to run into one a couple of times and his reputation is made. A pitcher OTOH has to throw pitch after pitch with a small margin of error. A pitcher who can do that under pressure is 'clutch'... and one who can't ... isn't. And it's very possible that a pitcher who can't ends up with an ERA >5.00 over six playoff years.

 

So yeah, I'm concerned about Price and the post season, and what happened last night did little to allay my fears.

Edited September 28, 2016 by S5Dewey

[SoxnCycles]

best pitcher i ever saw in the best season i saw him pitch gave up 9 runs without being able to get out of the 4th in an outing ... there has been more ace than not later in the season. the narrative about him in the post season is silly - but clearly without changing results it will follow him (like is does with kershaw).

 

I'm not sure why postseason concerns are silly.

He was an absolute force in his rookie year (8 years ago)and he was good in his one 2014 game with the Tigers.

Other than that he been pedestrian, and that's being kind.

 

If the rest of the rotation can pitch well, the Sox can probably get away with an average pitcher in there, but it wont be easy.

 

A 6.70 ERA in last year's playoffs isn't the least bit funny.

[Slasher9]

Where is Price in the second half on the lists that Sox n Cycles mentioned? Lists comparing him to other pitchers, not stats comparing him to himself. I am guessing that you didn't have trouble understanding that, but chose to ignore it.

 

im not ignoring anything.

if he cant even beat his own first half stats (which were pedestrian), you expect him to do better against the other "aces"?

he's not even the best on his own team. let alone the other 29 teams.

[Slasher9]

8-3 / 3.67 / 100 ip / 102H / 13HR / 20BB / 84K / 7.5 SO9 / 1.212 WHIP / .721 OPS / .264 BA

5-1 / 3.59 / 52.2IP / 46h / 4HR / 16BB / 34K / 5.8 SO9 / 1.177 WHIP / .649 OPS / .238 BA

 

 

HE CANT EVEN BEAT CLAY BUCHHOLZ.......

 

 

which is effing hysterical since that was the point of the very first post of this thread 5 months ago.....

[sk7326]

I'm not sure why postseason concerns are silly.

He was an absolute force in his rookie year (8 years ago)and he was good in his one 2014 game with the Tigers.

Other than that he been pedestrian, and that's being kind.

 

If the rest of the rotation can pitch well, the Sox can probably get away with an average pitcher in there, but it wont be easy.

 

A 6.70 ERA in last year's playoffs isn't the least bit funny.

 

of course it is small sample - and using the postseason as a (not specifically addressing you, since i got a couple of replies here) clutch mcclutcherson end point is a bit off ... after all Price as a deadline pickup as the Jays were making their charge was flat out magnificent - i am sure several of those starts were clutch.

 

he has had some starts which got away from him - especially third and fourth time through. But I hesitate to get too into the weeds about coming up big. After all, Jon Lester blew leads in the two do-or-die starts in his career ...

 

A lot of Price's results last postseason involved his skipper getting greedy and wasting what were largely gems.

[mvp 78]

Thanks for reminding why I usually don't respond to you.

You're an *******.

 

Everyone on here is an *******.

[mvp 78]

Personally, he has thrown a ton of innings and I believe leads the league in QS. It's not Pedro in 99-00, but it matters. Yes, I wish he was better, but I don't think his results are doom and gloom.

 

I am a little concerned about his post season track record though, which I've stated since the beginning of the season.

[a700hitter]

im not ignoring anything.

if he cant even beat his own first half stats (which were pedestrian), you expect him to do better against the other "aces"?

he's not even the best on his own team. let alone the other 29 teams.

Okay. He sucks. Take him out and shoot him. His second half was worse than his first half, and the middle was just unspeakable.

[a700hitter]

Everyone on here is an *******.

And I thought I was special.

[Kimmi]

Price's season has been a disappointment overall ... he was not disappointing in the last 2 months, and he has been a Top 10-15 pitcher over that time. And even when he has not been that, he has been a workhorse - which was especially important as the bullpen was stumbling along.

 

The season has been bad by David Price standards, decent by normal ones - with lots of evidence that the "bad stuff" was a fluke.

 

Nailed it.