Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i find it ironic that we have a severe shortage of quality and depth at the middle infield when Bloom drafted like 400 shortstops during his time in Boston. 

okay, alannis morisette :)

sorry had to

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

It does beat DFA'ing him by $2M.

I would not do that either, but I would trade Masa + Sandlin for $8-9M x 2 relief.

$2m is nothing. I'd rather just have his bat. I'm not sure I'd do your suggested deal there. If we can get it down further I start becoming interested though. 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

St Louis may be still shopping him, and yes we need a 2B like forever, but I just think the trade would have happened by now if it was going to.

That's not answering why. You just repeated your claim.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

That's not answering why. You just repeated your claim.

You want answers? BREZ BOTCHED IT.🤭

[Duran Is The Man]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Good one! And posters complained about that, too!

i know i did. i wanted more pitching. the sad part is their scouting/ analytics sucked ass. getting 1 out of 400 is pretty bad.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

6 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i know i did. i wanted more pitching. the sad part is their scouting/ analytics sucked ass. getting 1 out of 400 is pretty bad.

All we ever heard is that shortstop prospects can move anywhere on the diamond. Still waiting for one to convert to pitcher.

Wakefield and Tolle could hit homers, but they were first basemen...

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You want answers? BREZ BOTCHED IT.🤭

Finally- your opinion.

🤩

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Finally- your opinion.

🤩

I had already given it.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Old Red said:

I had already given it.

Only if we misread your actual words.

[JoeBrady]

11 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Average OBP ranking was 5. Average HR ranking was 8.

I thought you weren't allowed to talk to me:)

Past that, I'd say those results were similar to what I published.  HRs are useful; OBP is better.

[moonslav59]

14 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I thought you weren't allowed to talk to me:)

Past that, I'd say those results were similar to what I published.  HRs are useful; OBP is better.

I'm pretty sure multiple studies show OBP is a very predictive stat. It's worth more than SLG and/or ISO.

[Larry Cook]

I cannot see any team being even remotely interested in trading for either hicks or yoshida. Regardless of how much money we send with them. 

[JoeBrady]

43 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I cannot see any team being even remotely interested in trading for either hicks or yoshida. Regardless of how much money we send with them. 

IMO, guys like that are better off kept.  Yoshi should hit, so that's not a problem except for fit.  I'd prefer to see how Hicks does in ST rather than eat 80% of his salary.  We had Newcomb, who went from one of the worst 5-year stretches in BB to good enough for a $4.5M contract.  Keller went from a 5.84 with us, to a 2.07 with the Cubs, to a $22M/2 contract with Philly.  We should see what Hicks has before we make a rash decision.

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I thought you weren't allowed to talk to me:)

Past that, I'd say those results were similar to what I published.  HRs are useful; OBP is better.

I'm not here to refute anyone, just post results! 

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm pretty sure multiple studies show OBP is a very predictive stat. It's worth more than SLG and/or ISO.

I think HRs are a very unpredictable stat. SLG is probably far more predictable than HRs TBH. The issue I had was that using playoff stats can get messy due to SSS. 

[mvp 78]

8 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

I cannot see any team being even remotely interested in trading for either hicks or yoshida. Regardless of how much money we send with them. 

9 teams had DH production below 100 wRC+ last season. There is a $ amount that could get him moved. 

[notin]

22 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

All we ever heard is that shortstop prospects can move anywhere on the diamond. Still waiting for one to convert to pitcher.

Wakefield and Tolle could hit homers, but they were first basemen...

Joe Nathan

Trevor Hoffman

Rafael Betancourt

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

55 minutes ago, notin said:

Joe Nathan

Trevor Hoffman

Rafael Betancourt

I think Betancourt is the only one originally drafted or signed by Boston.

Javy Guerra, traded by Dombro in the Kimbrel deal, was one SS converted to pitcher. But like Duran said: out of about 400 (this century).

Then there was Frankie Rodriguez, who all the baseball card mags in the 1990s touted as a mighty pre-Ohtani two-way prospect. He never played shortstop in the bigs, but did have one single for Seattle in 1999, and tied me for zero MLB homers.

[notin]

4 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I think Betancourt is the only one originally drafted or signed by Boston.

Javy Guerra, traded by Dombro in the Kimbrel deal, was one SS converted to pitcher. But like Duran said: out of about 400 (this century).

Then there was Frankie Rodriguez, who all the baseball card mags in the 1990s touted as a mighty pre-Ohtani two-way prospect. He never played shortstop in the bigs, but did have one single for Seattle in 1999, and tied me for zero MLB homers.

Trevor Hoffman’s older brother was drafted and signed by Boston - so he’s Sox Adjacent.

And while Glenn never officially converted from SS to pitcher, he did hit like one.

I give those baseball card mags a ton of credit for comparing Rodriguez to Ohtani in 1990.  The comp probably didn’t make as much sense than as it does today…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Trevor Hoffman’s older brother was drafted and signed by Boston - so he’s Sox Adjacent.

And while Glenn never officially converted from SS to pitcher, he did hit like one.

I give those baseball card mags a ton of credit for comparing Rodriguez to Ohtani in 1990.  The comp probably didn’t make as much sense than as it does today…

It was a big gamble at the time, but before testing. My patience.

But back then, most frauds saying not to believe your own eyes and ears were in the shadows with Mulder and Scully.

[moonslav59]

17 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

I cannot see any team being even remotely interested in trading for either hicks or yoshida. Regardless of how much money we send with them. 

So, if they were FAs, they'd only get minor league offers or near min wage ML ones?

While BTV is certainly not perfect, they claim Masa is worth $5.6M (or $2.8 x 2 yrs) and Hicks is worth $4.4M (or $2.2M x 2 yrs.) That is not far from min wage, granted, especially Hicks, but look what some similar players have signed for...

Joel Payamps signed for higher AAV than $2.2M, although it was just for 1 year, Jake Fraley signed for more than Masa's $2.8M BTV value. Hell, Dustin May signed for $12.5M/1 which is a higher pay than what BTV says Masa+Hicks actual production value will be!

BTV gives payamps a value of $1.4M/1, which is 2/3 of the yearly value they assign Hicks. They give Fraley the exact yearly value as Masa ($2.8M.) Somehow the give DMay a value of 10.8M, so that kinda exposes their system, a bit, right?

The thing is, trading both to even save what the BTV value is ($5M x 2) won't likely create enough budget room for anything earth-shattering, but we do need an infielder and maybe a couple RP'ers, unless we convert some starters. I guess Brez wants a catcher, too.

[moonslav59]

16 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

IMO, guys like that are better off kept.  Yoshi should hit, so that's not a problem except for fit.  I'd prefer to see how Hicks does in ST rather than eat 80% of his salary.  We had Newcomb, who went from one of the worst 5-year stretches in BB to good enough for a $4.5M contract.  Keller went from a 5.84 with us, to a 2.07 with the Cubs, to a $22M/2 contract with Philly.  We should see what Hicks has before we make a rash decision.

I do think Masa can hit .760-.810, which is pretty close to what Duran is projected to hit, so I can see the idea of keeping him around, as the trade value between he and Duran is miles apart.

I also don't see anyone paying Hicks full boat, so maybe he gets a look, too.

The deals I suggested with those two involved giving a rich team someone they really wanted, taking back someone of lesser value and evening the deal by making them pay for Masa or Hicks, or my trade suggestions involved getting back high salary, too, but someone at a position of need, of which DH and RH'd RP'er are not high on our list. Adding blocked players helped sweeten the pot for the other team to say yes, we'll pay your higher paid sunken cost, if you take ours, but only if you include ____.

[JoeBrady]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

evening the deal by making them pay for Masa

Like I said, I see no problem finding a landing spot for Masa.  You had mentioned Masa going to the NYMs in a Baty/Vientos trade.  If Stearns balks because Baty/Vientos are his DHs, then Masa with a $30M check will look attractive.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

Like I said, I see no problem finding a landing spot for Masa.  You had mentioned Masa going to the NYMs in a Baty/Vientos trade.  If Stearns balks because Baty/Vientos are his DHs, then Masa with a $30M check will look attractive.

I'm not a Vientos fan at all, but Baty hits LH'd and Vientos brings power as a RHB. Baty has a little power, too. Masa might out OPS Vientos, but I think a Baty/Vientos add would be enough for our offense to balance the L-R set up and end the Masa issue once and for all.

1. L Anthony LF

2. R Contreras 1B

3. L Abreu RF

4. R Vientos DH

5. L Baty 3B

6. R Story SS

7. L Mayer/ R Romy 2B

8. R Narvaez C

9. R Rafaela CF

Casas offers some LH'd power at DH or 1B. Vientos can back up 3B or 1B better than Masa can back up anywhere. Baty can play 2B, and Mayer can play 3B or SS. Romy can play 1B or DH. Just what Cora likes.

Yes, we lose Duran's bat, but I think our offense improves and our budget looks better going forward. Baty and Vientos are pre-arb!

 

[notin]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not a Vientos fan at all, but Baty hits LH'd and Vientos brings power as a RHB. Baty has a little power, too. Masa might out OPS Vientos, but I think a Baty/Vientos add would be enough for our offense to balance the L-R set up and end the Masa issue once and for all.

1. L Anthony LF

2. R Contreras 1B

3. L Abreu RF

4. R Vientos DH

5. L Baty 3B

6. R Story SS

7. L Mayer/ R Romy 2B

8. R Narvaez C

9. R Rafaela CF

Casas offers some LH'd power at DH or 1B. Vientos can back up 3B or 1B better than Masa can back up anywhere. Baty can play 2B, and Mayer can play 3B or SS. Romy can play 1B or DH. Just what Cora likes.

Yes, we lose Duran's bat, but I think our offense improves and our budget looks better going forward. Baty and Vientos are pre-arb!

 

So L-R batting order supersedes OPS now?

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, notin said:

So L-R batting order supersedes OPS now?

I see Vientos as close to even with Masa but with more power.

I see power as the bigger need.

I do prefer a RHB Masa vs a LHB Masa, in theory.

I think Baty + Vientos > Duran + Masa, since Duran and Masa are both our DH's. We fill an open position and replace out two DHs with one, and yes he's a RHB. (We still have LHB Casas to DH, if needed.)

[JoeBrady]

30 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think Baty + Vientos > Duran + Masa, since Duran and Masa are both our DH's. We fill an open position and replace out two DHs with one, and yes he's a RHB. (We still have LHB Casas to DH, if needed.)

That's going to be as good as it is going to get.  That or Paredes.  Vientos will be about the same as Yoshida.  Baty will be the big bat that the big-bat fans want.  But the underrated aspect, imo, would be that we have a perfect slot for Casas when he gets healthy.  Take some lefty ABs from Vientos and Contreras, and allows Vientos back up 3rd (somewhat painfully).

And the savings allow us another BP arm, and some spending money at the deadline.

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

That's going to be as good as it is going to get.  That or Paredes.  Vientos will be about the same as Yoshida.  Baty will be the big bat that the big-bat fans want.  But the underrated aspect, imo, would be that we have a perfect slot for Casas when he gets healthy.  Take some lefty ABs from Vientos and Contreras, and allows Vientos back up 3rd (somewhat painfully).

And the savings allow us another BP arm, and some spending money at the deadline.

We are logjammed at DH & OF. Unless we play Rafaela at 2B, Masa only plays if an OF'er sits, and since 3 of our 4 OF'ers are LHB, it's not complicated.

It would be better to offload Masa over Hicks (with Duran) even if we paid enough money to even it with Hicks. The flex we give Cora is a big plus:

DH: Vientos/Casas/Romy/Campbell

3B: Baty/Vientos/Mayer/Eaton

2B: Mayer-Romy/ Baty/DHam

1B: Contreras/Vientos.Casas

Yes, we lose OF depth, but we still have Campbell to play LF. (If we trade Hicks not Masa, we'd have Masa as LF depth.)

[moonslav59]

Arraez $12M/1 w SFG.

Will play 2B.

[JoeBrady]

54 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Arraez $12M/1 w SFG.

Will play 2B.

I thought he'd get more like $12M/2 from a team like the Rox.