Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[FredLynn]

24 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Unlikely! 

If we enter ST with an above average bat for the IF then the team has a chance to compete for a ring. The opposite is also true.

[Old Red]

15 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45074054/red-sox-owner-john-henry-meets-rafael-devers-remarks
 

dude….its common f***ing sense.  Come on man

So Cora is lying?

[Hugh2]

19 minutes ago, Old Red said:

So Cora is lying?

Either Cora is lying or you’re missing something. 
 

Devers explicitly said the organization talked to him about it, he didn’t say who.  
 

but you really think the owner of the team is going to fly into town during an away series because a player switching positions has become such a massive issue, AND CORA WAS there and they didn’t have a conversation? You really think Cora was sitting in on that meeting and was like “oh wow we want to move Devers to 1B” the owner flew into town because it was such a massive ordeal and his own manager didn’t talk to Devers about it?????

 

come on Red. There’s no permutation of this where that conversation is as not had.

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, Old Red said:

Just going by what Cora actually said. Didn’t Toro start off fine, and then tailed off.

Why not go by the results and the fact that the team gave up on Toro?

Okay, Toro peaked at about the 30 game mark, which was when we traded Devers, but for someone who calls every prospect a "suspect," you sure seem to have thought Toro was someone we didn't need to replace. All based on what Cora said- I guy you respect more than anyone in MLB! (LOL)

Devers > Toro. There is no debate on that.

As for DH, yes Masa was on some sort of Twilight Zone AAA rehab assignment and wasn't called up until almost a month after the Devers trade, we still had Romy, Refsnyder and others that could have DH'd

It was clear Cora did not want to even politely ask Devers to play 1B, and let's assume you are right, Cora did not think he was a better option at 1B, and it wasn't a fear of a Devers pout or tantrum, we do know Brez wanted Devers at 1B. 

So, "Going by what Brez actually said..." should mean something, too, right?

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, Kimmi said:

Memo to Breslow:

Infielder still needed.  

Get it done.

Send Red Sox fans to camp happy.

Brendan Donovan to the Mariners. Cross him off the dwindling list. 

[moonslav59]

43 minutes ago, Old Red said:

So Cora is lying?

This looks like a direct quote from Cora prsented by ESPN, one of the "all accounts" sources you claim know more than I do:

"He expressed his feelings. John did the same thing," Cora said. "I think the most important thing here is we're trying to accomplish something big here. And obviously there's changes on the roster, situations that happened, and you have to adjust."

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

Brendan Donovan to the Mariners. Cross him off the dwindling list. 

Although Donovan was pretty close to the .780 success line cutoff, he's not good vs LHPs. I'm fine with not getting a RHB, but whoever we get needs to be okay vs lefties. We can't platoon Mayer, our 2Bman, Masa, Duran & Abreu. There are only 4 bench slots and one is a catcher.

[Old Red]

31 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

This looks like a direct quote from Cora prsented by ESPN, one of the "all accounts" sources you claim know more than I do:

"He expressed his feelings. John did the same thing," Cora said. "I think the most important thing here is we're trying to accomplish something big here. And obviously there's changes on the roster, situations that happened, and you have to adjust."

Yes JH talked to Raffy about playing 1B. That’s nothing new, and was reported at the time. Brez also talked to Raffy about playing first base, which was also reported.

[Old Red]

37 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Why not go by the results and the fact that the team gave up on Toro?

Okay, Toro peaked at about the 30 game mark, which was when we traded Devers, but for someone who calls every prospect a "suspect," you sure seem to have thought Toro was someone we didn't need to replace. All based on what Cora said- I guy you respect more than anyone in MLB! (LOL)

Devers > Toro. There is no debate on that.

As for DH, yes Masa was on some sort of Twilight Zone AAA rehab assignment and wasn't called up until almost a month after the Devers trade, we still had Romy, Refsnyder and others that could have DH'd

It was clear Cora did not want to even politely ask Devers to play 1B, and let's assume you are right, Cora did not think he was a better option at 1B, and it wasn't a fear of a Devers pout or tantrum, we do know Brez wanted Devers at 1B. 

So, "Going by what Brez actually said..." should mean something, too, right?

Yes the Red Sox did finally gave up on Toro, which was after Cora made his comment. Where, where, where did I say Toro did not need to be replaced? Cora said the Red SOX was fine on NESN, so I guess that’s on Cora. Sure what Brez said meant something he traded Devers, but Cora never put Devers at first base either.

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Yes JH talked to Raffy about playing 1B. That’s nothing new, and was reported at the time. Brez also talked to Raffy about playing first base, which was also reported.

Yes, as Cora mentioned in this quote. I'm sure you will understand these words differently from I do, but what do you think these Cora words mean?

And obviously there's changes on the roster, situations that happened, and you have to adjust... The plan is to keep having conversations."

This report seems to confirm that Cora and Breslow agreed 1B was the best spot for Devers, but the team chose Breslow to talk to Devers, so as not to "negatively impact" the relationship between Cora and Devers. I guess this goes against an "all accounts" support your position, but I'm sure this won't change your locked in view of what happened and why. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/report-red-sox-kept-alex-cora-away-from-rafael-devers-first-base-convo/ar-AA1FPPS7?ocid=UE12DHP

When Boston lost Triston Casas for the season to injury, the club suddenly faced a problematic vacancy at first base. Presumably, Breslow and Cora discussed the next steps, with a Devers move to first emerging as the best option for the team.

 

With this in mind, Boston’s management decided that Breslow should be the one to speak with Devers, and the exact thinking behind this choice was unveiled in a new report from MassLive’s Chris Cotillo on Friday.

“Initially, it was Breslow — and not Cora — who approached Devers about potentially moving to first base, which led to some questions about communication within the organization,” Cotillo wrote.

“But one industry source recently offered that the strategy was deliberate with the Red Sox purposefully having Breslow — and not Cora — approach Devers about trying first base.”

 

“The idea, the source said, was that if Devers responded unfavorably to the request — as he quickly did — the long-standing, strong relationship between player and manager wouldn’t be negatively impacted and the team could still have Cora preserve an open line of communication with the club’s highest-paid and longest-tenured member.”

In essence, Breslow was willing to become the “bad cop” to Devers so that Cora could remain the “good cop” if things turned sour (which they did)

Another key takeaway here is that the Red Sox are clearly making steps to appease Devers, rather than double down on the notion that he’s an employee under contract. Breslow and Cora had every right to demand that Devers play first base, but they went in the other direction — they merely asked him, and they did so with the assumption that they would back off if he said no, which they highly suspected he would.

 

It’s not the strategy every franchise would have taken, but hey, Devers is absolutely mashing right now, so he should probably just keep DH’ing.

Boston hasn’t been completely fair to Devers this season, and Devers hasn’t been a completely selfless teammate...."

.

 

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, Kimmi said:

One of the few times that I am in 100% agreement with Mr. FredLynn.  Well said.

I knew that once I complimented Fred on his medical expertise, that this thread was going to go to heck.  Anyone else want to agree with Fred?  Let's get it over with before the whole site crashes.

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, Old Red said:

 Sure what Brez said meant something he traded Devers, but Cora never put Devers at first base either.

Yes, and you choose to speculate (not me) that it's because he didn't think Devers at 1B would have improved the team, otherwise he'd have done it. My last post gives one alternate view, which I'm not sure is all factual, either.

I am not sure why Cora didn't play Devers at 1B. I'd guess maybe because he was traded before he had enough practice to be given a shot in a game situation.

You do realize he didn't play 1B with SFG until about 5 weeks after the trade, so he might not have been "ready." That seems like a more plausible reason on why "Cora didn't play Devers at 1B is most telling." type statements that imply he didn't think he was the better choice.

The article hints at the idea that Cora did want him at 1B and they worried about Devers' fragile ego.

Hmmm, what poster said that was a possibility?

[JoeBrady]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Boston hasn’t been completely fair to Devers this season, and Devers hasn’t been a completely selfless teammate...."

Sounds reasonable.  To me, it wasn't that big a deal.  He's a very good player that was well-compensated.  We lost some talent and gained some spending room.  If it was me, I'd have made the switch.  But I don't think I'd have liked it one bit.

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I knew that once I complimented Fred on his medical expertise, that this thread was going to go to heck.  Anyone else want to agree with Fred?  Let's get it over with before the whole site crashes.

Imagine what Fred would be like if he felt emboldened with support?

I'd suggest we curb our agreeing outloud.

🤪

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Sounds reasonable.  To me, it wasn't that big a deal.  He's a very good player that was well-compensated.  We lost some talent and gained some spending room.  If it was me, I'd have made the switch.  But I don't think I'd have liked it one bit.

"hasn't been completely selfless" sounds better.

That's why those guys make the big bucks.

[Old Red]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, as Cora mentioned in this quote. I'm sure you will understand these words differently from I do, but what do you think these Cora words mean?

And obviously there's changes on the roster, situations that happened, and you have to adjust... The plan is to keep having conversations."

This report seems to confirm that Cora and Breslow agreed 1B was the best spot for Devers, but the team chose Breslow to talk to Devers, so as not to "negatively impact" the relationship between Cora and Devers. I guess this goes against an "all accounts" support your position, but I'm sure this won't change your locked in view of what happened and why. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/report-red-sox-kept-alex-cora-away-from-rafael-devers-first-base-convo/ar-AA1FPPS7?ocid=UE12DHP

When Boston lost Triston Casas for the season to injury, the club suddenly faced a problematic vacancy at first base. Presumably, Breslow and Cora discussed the next steps, with a Devers move to first emerging as the best option for the team.

 

With this in mind, Boston’s management decided that Breslow should be the one to speak with Devers, and the exact thinking behind this choice was unveiled in a new report from MassLive’s Chris Cotillo on Friday.

“Initially, it was Breslow — and not Cora — who approached Devers about potentially moving to first base, which led to some questions about communication within the organization,” Cotillo wrote.

“But one industry source recently offered that the strategy was deliberate with the Red Sox purposefully having Breslow — and not Cora — approach Devers about trying first base.”

 

“The idea, the source said, was that if Devers responded unfavorably to the request — as he quickly did — the long-standing, strong relationship between player and manager wouldn’t be negatively impacted and the team could still have Cora preserve an open line of communication with the club’s highest-paid and longest-tenured member.”

In essence, Breslow was willing to become the “bad cop” to Devers so that Cora could remain the “good cop” if things turned sour (which they did)

Another key takeaway here is that the Red Sox are clearly making steps to appease Devers, rather than double down on the notion that he’s an employee under contract. Breslow and Cora had every right to demand that Devers play first base, but they went in the other direction — they merely asked him, and they did so with the assumption that they would back off if he said no, which they highly suspected he would.

 

It’s not the strategy every franchise would have taken, but hey, Devers is absolutely mashing right now, so he should probably just keep DH’ing.

Boston hasn’t been completely fair to Devers this season, and Devers hasn’t been a completely selfless teammate...."

.

 

Like I said all of this stuff is nothing new, and was all reported on NESN exclusively during, and after all of this went on. Rehashing all this now isn’t, and hasn’t changed anything. I’ve said all along that if I found out Cora wanted Raffy play 1B I would change my opinion, and I would. Instead of Blaming Brez 99.5% I might lower the blame to 75%.

[Old Red]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, and you choose to speculate (not me) that it's because he didn't think Devers at 1B would have improved the team, otherwise he'd have done it. My last post gives one alternate view, which I'm not sure is all factual, either.

I am not sure why Cora didn't play Devers at 1B. I'd guess maybe because he was traded before he had enough practice to be given a shot in a game situation.

You do realize he didn't play 1B with SFG until about 5 weeks after the trade, so he might not have been "ready." That seems like a more plausible reason on why "Cora didn't play Devers at 1B is most telling." type statements that imply he didn't think he was the better choice.

The article hints at the idea that Cora did want him at 1B and they worried about Devers' fragile ego.

Hmmm, what poster said that was a possibility?

I do realize Raffy didn’t play 1B for SF for some time. I believed he skipped out on a practice session with Will Clark. No doubt Raffy had a fragile ego, and thought he was a good 3B, which complicated things, and that’s all well known, but Raffy was told to put his glove away, so he wasn’t even going to be the backup at 3B.

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Although Donovan was pretty close to the .780 success line cutoff, he's not good vs LHPs. I'm fine with not getting a RHB, but whoever we get needs to be okay vs lefties. We can't platoon Mayer, our 2Bman, Masa, Duran & Abreu. There are only 4 bench slots and one is a catcher.

Donovan was an all-star last year, FWIW. and from perusing Mariners Talk, their fans are very happy about the trade. i agree, i don't think they gave up too much for a good player that fit a need. maybe Bresloverpay will take note.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Like I said all of this stuff is nothing new, and was all reported on NESN exclusively during, and after all of this went on. Rehashing all this now isn’t, and hasn’t changed anything. I’ve said all along that if I found out Cora wanted Raffy play 1B I would change my opinion, and I would. Instead of Blaming Brez 99.5% I might lower the blame to 75%.

Oh, I thought the 99.5% was on the Breggie talks. I see now it's your default starting point apparently based on confirmation bias.

[moonslav59]

59 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

Donovan was an all-star last year, FWIW. and from perusing Mariners Talk, their fans are very happy about the trade. i agree, i don't think they gave up too much for a good player that fit a need. maybe Bresloverpay will take note.

I'd have been okay with Donovan- just not for Tolle or Early or one of our 4 OF'ers.

I still hope we can do better, and if we don't I'll count this one as "one that got away." (Along with a few others.)

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

...but Raffy was told to put his glove away, so he wasn’t even going to be the backup at 3B.

So that absolves him all but maybe 0.5%, which he has to share with Cora. Got it.

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Oh, I thought the 99.5% was on the Breggie talks. I see now it's your default starting point apparently based on confirmation bias.

99.5% is giving Brez some benefit of doubt.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So that absolves him all but maybe 0.5%, which he has to share with Cora. Got it.

It’s telling to me that he wasn’t even going to be the backup at 3B. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It’s telling to me that he wasn’t even going to be the backup at 3B. 

We didn't need him at 3B, and we didn;t need him at 1B... until we did.

Things change. Key word from Cora? "Adjust" He said it not ESPN or the guys on your corner.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Imagine what Fred would be like if he felt emboldened with support?

I'd suggest we curb our agreeing outloud.

🤪

I know you all agree with me on most issues….down deep. So I’m already emboldened. 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

I know you all agree with me on most issues….down deep. So I’m already emboldened. 

We keep our secrets to ourselves!

🙃

[Duran Is The Man]

33 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd have been okay with Donovan- just not for Tolle or Early or one of our 4 OF'ers.

I still hope we can do better, and if we don't I'll count this one as "one that got away." (Along with a few others.)

i agree.

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We didn't need him at 3B, and we didn;t need him at 1B... until we did.

Things change. Key word from Cora? "Adjust" He said it not ESPN or the guys on your corner.

It’s nice you reference ESPN, but like I said it’s nothing new, and was all covered in real time on NESN. Nothing new? If there was a chance that Raffy might be needed later on I don’t think it was a good idea to tell Raffy to put his glove away. Sounds like another bad move by Cora.

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It’s nice you reference ESPN, but like I said it’s nothing new, and was all covered in real time on NESN. Nothing new? If there was a chance that Raffy might be needed later on I don’t think it was a good idea to tell Raffy to put his glove away. Sounds like another bad move by Cora.

But still 99.5% Brez. Got it.

[mvp 78]

14 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I knew that once I complimented Fred on his medical expertise, that this thread was going to go to heck.  Anyone else want to agree with Fred?  Let's get it over with before the whole site crashes.

Since Brock took over, it crashes a lot less TBH.