Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

drewski6 · January 28

22 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Assuming our starting rotation is

1.) LHP crochet

2.) LHP suarez

3.) RHP gray

4.) RHP bello

5.) RHP Oviedo

1. Crochet
2. Kutter Crawford
3. Payton Tolle
4.Sonny Gray
5. Ranger Suarez
6. Oviedo
7. Bello
8. Early
9. Harrison

Just my ranking

drewski6 · January 28

7 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I'm not "almost everyone."

Maybe not but Chaka Khan is every women. so I hear

moonslav59 · January 28

6 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

The real issue with this addition and not a trade, is the downstream roster math. You still have to figure out what to do with Campbell, Casas, Hicks, Yoshida, Crawford, and Patrick Sandoval. That’s a lot of talent, and it creates pressure on both the 26-man and the 40-man.

Quite frankly, some of those players are becoming either obsolete from a roster-construction standpoint, cash commitments without a clear role, or talented pieces with no realistic path to playing time. That’s not an indictment of the players per se.

In that situation, it may actually make more sense to convert surplus into value now. Trading from that group could bring back a high-end prospect, controllable down line 2028 and beyond pitching, or future flexibility, while also clearing 40-man space.

To me, the roster crunch talk is not all that important. If we lose Watson, Moran or even cut ties with Hicks, nobody should lose any sleep. We have enough pitchers with options to keep anyone looking okay to good in ST'ing on the 40 (or 26, if needed.) Crawford, harrison, Oviedo and even Sandoval all have options remaining. If Watson, Moran or Hicks, all with no options, are showing promise, we can keep 1,2 or all 3 and be okay.

The everyday roster is a little more complicated. Nobody really knows if Masa can be parked in AAA all year, and that is a big slot on the 26, if forced. I'm not worried about the 40, as long as Eaton, Sogard and someone else I can't remember. Plus, we may trade someone for an infielder and change the whole debate.

Larry Cook · January 28

6 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I see both sides on what to do with the overflow and downstream decisisons.

1. Injuries will work it out

VS

2. Trade the overflow for prospects, who will likely how their value better than say an established MLB player with x amount of control that is only going to go down over time.

Personally, I lean towards 1 and I may be in the minority here and thats okay, but even like Yoshida. People are like we dont need his .775 OPS because we have it from this other guy. But Yoshida wasnt exactly in the plans last year and found himself batting cleanup in the playoffs and really one of our better bats in the playoffs last year.

I think that considering that injuries are at an all time high, you hoard dudes when you can. So Im okay with Yoshida taking up a bench spot and even getting in games here and there to keep him sharp while we wait for an injury. And I agree with your first post that the positional versatility can help here. You can play Cedanne at 2b sparingly, give duran a day off sparingly, give abreu a day off sparingly, it helps you use your roster and keep everyone contributing while you have too many players. And I really think that we wont have too many players for long because of injuries.

"We dont have a spot for Yoshida, so we should move him" - maybe but I wouldnt be in a rush just for the sake of making everything "clean". Because thats how you wind up being 2 injuries away from having Adam Eaton batting cleanup in the playoffs.

People say well you need to have 9 good starting pitchers. I say I agree and for the same reason you need to have 15 capable hitters

Does yoshida have minor league options?
also “the Fenway flu” has been known to last for more than 60 days!!

JoeBrady · January 28

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

Dont forget the context. Hes been talking about how OBP matters way more than power and slg is way overblown is OBP is king by a lot. No "I think", no "in my opinion" presenting it all as established fact.

I've said, and fairly recently, that both HRs and OBP count. Just that OBP is more important.
I don't think I have used the phrase 'OBP is king by a lot'. If I did, please feel free to point that out. But I didn't, so don't waste your time.
it is not a matter of 'imo'. I am presenting data. I am taking the data from Baseball Reference. There is no opinion involved.
If you feel that I have reached the wrong conclusion, and you think that HRs are more important than OBP, please feel free to create a spreadsheet just like I did.

moonslav59 · January 29

3 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Does yoshida have minor league options?
also “the Fenway flu” has been known to last for more than 60 days!!

soxprospects days he does, but there is some debate.

I found this...

Due to his contract structure as an international signing, the Red Sox cannot unilaterally demote him without his consent after his initial 20-day rehab window.

JoeBrady · January 29

4 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Dont forget the context. Hes been talking about how OBP matters way more than power and slg is way overblown is OBP is king by a lot. No "I think", no "in my opinion" presenting it all as established fact.

ANd this painfully simple "analysis" (5 yr old stuff) is him showing his work.

Wild

I am kind of curious why you are trying to dissuade MVP from discussing the HR v OBP issue with me. Do you think MVP is incapable of holding such a conversation? Or deciding which data is valid?

mvp 78 · January 29

15 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Does yoshida have minor league options?
also “the Fenway flu” has been known to last for more than 60 days!!

He has options, but we don't know if his contract allows him to be sent to AAA for anything aside from an IL stint TBH.

mvp 78 · January 29

11 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I am kind of curious why you are trying to dissuade MVP from discussing the HR v OBP issue with me. Do you think MVP is incapable of holding such a conversation? Or deciding which data is valid?

As TalkSox's POTY 18 years running, I'm incapable of holding any meaningful conversation. 😎

mvp 78 · January 29

Where the WS teams ranked in Regular Season OBP/HR

2025: LAD 2/5, TOR 1/13

2024: LAD 2/3, NYY 3/1

2023: TEX 3/4, ARZ 14/22

2022: HOU 7/4, PHI 11/6

2021: ATL 12/3, HOU 3/9

2020: LAD 5/1, TBR 11/14

2019: WSH 2/13, HOU 1/3

2018: BOS 1/9, LAD 5/2

2017: HOU 1/2, LAD 6/11

2016: CHC 2/13, 8/18

13 of 20 teams were better OBP teams than HR teams (though some are arguably too close to call different). 7 of 10 WS winners were better OBP teams than HR teams. 8 were significantly better OBP teams than HR teams (5+ spots). 2 were significantly better HR teams than OBP teams.

I think looking at regular season stats makes more sense as it gets rid of SSS noise (i.e. one team has a game where they go bonkers and win in a unique way). What we do see is that only two teams weren't top 10 in either category. 13 teams were top 5 in at least one category. Average OBP ranking was 5. Average HR ranking was 8.

Old Red · January 29

29 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He has options, but we don't know if his contract allows him to be sent to AAA for anything aside from an IL stint TBH.

The gift that keeps on giving. For two more years anyways.

mvp 78 · January 29

20 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The gift that keeps on giving. For two more years anyways.

Not Bloom's fault though. He needed to do it! How could he have known that Duran, Abreu, Rafaela, Verdugo, Refsnyder and Duvall would have all been available to him at the end of the year? More important to since an obscene contract for a Japanese LHB DH to play LF in Fenway. He must have been on a Whistle Pig bender that week.

Old Red · January 29

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Not Bloom's fault though. He needed to do it! How could he have known that Duran, Abreu, Rafaela, Verdugo, Refsnyder and Duvall would have all been available to him at the end of the year? More important to since an obscene contract for a Japanese LHB DH to play LF in Fenway. He must have been on a Whistle Pig bender that week.

Was it all him, or others in the FO?

moonslav59 · January 29

You have to wonder how realistic it would be to trade Masa with a prospect to help increase the money saved side of the ledger. Who would that prospect be?

According to BTV, Masa's value is 5.6 over 2 years, so about $3M x 2. So, we add Sandlin and get what? $8M x 2 relief? (BTV has Sandlin at 5.5, so by their formula, we'd just get $3M more x 2.) Does $6-8M move the needle for Brez and the budget?

If somehow we make a trade with Hicks going away, maybe we could save a couple or three M more, but again, does that change anything?

I guess if ESuarez signs late, maybe we can get some sort of bargain, and if Masa is gone, we need not play Suarez at 3B- we could DH him.

Masa + Sandlin for $7M relief.

Duran, prospect + Hicks for Donovan (saves us about $12M)

Sign E Suarez

moonslav59 · January 29

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Was it all him, or others in the FO?

STOP defending Bloom!

🤣

mvp 78 · January 29

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Was it all him, or others in the FO?

It was that sneak Bloom and his cowardly scouts who refuse to stand up and be counted.

Old Red · January 29

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You have to wonder how realistic it would be to trade Masa with a prospect to help increase the money saved side of the ledger. Who would that prospect be?

According to BTV, Masa's value is 5.6 over 2 years, so about $3M x 2. So, we add Sandlin and get what? $8M x 2 relief? (BTV has Sandlin at 5.5, so by their formula, we'd just get $3M more x 2.) Does $6-8M move the needle for Brez and the budget?

If somehow we make a trade with Hicks going away, maybe we could save a couple or three M more, but again, does that change anything?

I guess if ESuarez signs late, maybe we can get some sort of bargain, and if Masa is gone, we need not play Suarez at 3B- we could DH him.

Masa + Sandlin for $7M relief.

Duran, prospect + Hicks for Donovan (saves us about $12M)

Sign E Suarez

Only BTV would accept Masa, and or Hicks.🤭

mvp 78 · January 29

20 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You have to wonder how realistic it would be to trade Masa with a prospect to help increase the money saved side of the ledger. Who would that prospect be?

According to BTV, Masa's value is 5.6 over 2 years, so about $3M x 2. So, we add Sandlin and get what? $8M x 2 relief? (BTV has Sandlin at 5.5, so by their formula, we'd just get $3M more x 2.) Does $6-8M move the needle for Brez and the budget?

If somehow we make a trade with Hicks going away, maybe we could save a couple or three M more, but again, does that change anything?

I guess if ESuarez signs late, maybe we can get some sort of bargain, and if Masa is gone, we need not play Suarez at 3B- we could DH him.

Masa + Sandlin for $7M relief.

Duran, prospect + Hicks for Donovan (saves us about $12M)

Sign E Suarez

I would trade Masa and Sandlin just to clear up the roster nonsense.

Duran, prospect and Hicks for Donovan is a big time loser of a trade.

mvp 78 · January 29

19 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

What? Listen, I could tell that MVP was intelligent half way through our first interaction. I recognize and respect intelligence and I dont talk down to intelligent people. I see the way you talk to people much smarter than yourself , from this condescending tone with a base belief that all your opinions are established fact. Like you are the smartest guy in the room when you are in a room with people 10x smarter. You are just smart enough to know that you are not the smartest guy here and your WAR/$$ calculations and your white boards and your 3b of the future talk is nothing we havent all heard before. Honestly, you arent the dumbest guy but you are not nearly as smart as you think you are and your 5/10 intelligence and 10/10 confidence make you dense. Your late 80s cartoonish level bigotry make you insufferable. You are epitome of the dude disagreeing with the doctor because of what you heard on Joe Rogan and you are just soooo confident that invermectin is a miracle cure. Do the world a favor, and go drown a bottle (if it even comes in a bottle, I dont know and dont care)

In this particular case, the only person who I want to protect from your nonsense is myself. But no, I am not concerned about intelligent people coming across your little spreadsheet (nerd). You run around here telling people that OBP trumps power and you have the proof. And then when you are asked to share , the depth is third grade level hilarity. We're mocking you because you are the ~~biggest~~ only clown on talksox.

You would almost be cute if it wasnt for the cartoonish level bigotry.

Settle down. I think we need to move on and chill out with the dumb personal attacks.

Thanks.

Old Red · January 29

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I would trade Masa and Sandlin just to clear up the roster nonsense.

Duran, prospect and Hicks for Donovan is a big time loser of a trade.

If Donavan was going to happen I think it would have happened by now.

Old Red · January 29

34 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

STOP defending Bloom!

🤣

I did give Bloom credit a time, or two.

Hitch · January 29

38 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You have to wonder how realistic it would be to trade Masa with a prospect to help increase the money saved side of the ledger. Who would that prospect be?

According to BTV, Masa's value is 5.6 over 2 years, so about $3M x 2. So, we add Sandlin and get what? $8M x 2 relief? (BTV has Sandlin at 5.5, so by their formula, we'd just get $3M more x 2.) Does $6-8M move the needle for Brez and the budget?

If somehow we make a trade with Hicks going away, maybe we could save a couple or three M more, but again, does that change anything?

I guess if ESuarez signs late, maybe we can get some sort of bargain, and if Masa is gone, we need not play Suarez at 3B- we could DH him.

Masa + Sandlin for $7M relief.

Duran, prospect + Hicks for Donovan (saves us about $12M)

Sign E Suarez

This is Cotillo's play on the latest Fenway Rundown. Attach Sandlin and sign Suarez for a year and live with it. I'd be okay with that all playing out. But I don't see Sandlin being anywhere near enough to offload Yoshida.

moonslav59 · January 29

17 minutes ago, Old Red said:

If Donavan was going to happen I think it would have happened by now.

Why?

It's widely known STL is still shopping him.

We need a 2Bman.

moonslav59 · January 29

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

This is Cotillo's play on the latest Fenway Rundown. Attach Sandlin and sign Suarez for a year and live with it. I'd be okay with that all playing out. But I don't see Sandlin being anywhere near enough to offload Yoshida.

I think someone would take Masa for nothing in return, if we paid all but $2-4M a year.

Brez probably wants to pay less and or think Masa can add value for us as a DH, especially if he follows through on trading from the OF logjam and takes one guy away from the DH mix.

Duran Is The Man · January 29

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Why?

It's widely known STL is still shopping him.

We need a 2Bman.

i find it ironic that we have a severe shortage of quality and depth at the middle infield when Bloom drafted like 400 shortstops during his time in Boston.

Hitch · January 29

Just now, moonslav59 said:

I think someone would take Masa for nothing in return, if we paid all but $2-4M a year.

Brez probably wants to pay less and or think Masa can add value for us as a DH, especially if he follows through on trading from the OF logjam and takes one guy away from the DH mix.

I wouldn't trade Massa just for $2m in savings. There's no point to that as we aren't cutting him.

moonslav59 · January 29

2 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i find it ironic that we have a severe shortage of quality and depth at the middle infield when Bloom drafted like 400 shortstops during his time in Boston.

Good one! And posters complained about that, too!

drewski6 · January 29

17 hours ago, drewski6 said:

1. Crochet
2. Kutter Crawford
3. Payton Tolle
4.Sonny Gray
5. Ranger Suarez
6. Oviedo
7. Bello
8. Early
9. Harrison

Just my ranking

sandoval between early and harrison , knew i was forgetting somebody

moonslav59 · January 29

2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I wouldn't trade Massa just for $2m in savings. There's no point to that as we aren't cutting him.

It does beat DFA'ing him by $2M.

I would not do that either, but I would trade Masa + Sandlin for $8-9M x 2 relief.

Old Red · January 29

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Why?

It's widely known STL is still shopping him.

We need a 2Bman.

St Louis may be still shopping him, and yes we need a 2B like forever, but I just think the trade would have happened by now if it was going to.

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