Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Thunder said:

Yeah, losing Teel sucks. I really liked him too, especially since we lack catcher depth. But, the White Sox wanted Anthony, so the fact we talked them off that ledge and still got Crochet is a win in my book, as long as Crochet doesn't turn out to be a bust

I wonder if Mayer was discussed.

[Larry Cook]

Logically after we said no thanks on Anthony, Mayer or Campbell would be the next prospects discussed! 

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I wonder if Mayer was discussed.

i would have rather sent him and kept Teel and Braden.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i would have rather sent him and kept Teel and Braden.

Agreed. Even Mayer, Cespedes and Bleis over Teel and Monty.

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. Even Mayer, Cespedes and Bleis over Teel and Monty.

Chicago had a plethora or talent to luck from and it was going to hurt no matter which four they got. Because we had to outbid desperate Dave!!!!

[Randy Red Sox]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I wonder if Mayer was discussed.

i like that we got Crochet who is only 25 and fits in our window but I think we FAR overpaid.  Hopefully we can extend him because if he turns out to be a 2 year rental it will cost Bres-slow his job

[Hitch]

I don't think we should be extending Crochet. Let's see if we really have what we think we have before doing another Sale.

 

Keith Law calls him a TJ just waiting to happen. 

[notin]

2 hours ago, Hitch said:

I don't think we should be extending Crochet. Let's see if we really have what we think we have before doing another Sale.

 

Keith Law calls him a TJ just waiting to happen. 

Law needs new material.  He used to say that about Sale as well…

[moonslav59]

If we "wait" until he has a great year, his price will double.

The best chance to extend him is in the next few months.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Sorry for my ignorance by why are people so down on Connor Wong?  I understand his defense is below average but wouldn't a catcher with a career OPS of .833, a rare catcher with speed, make up for that defensive deficiency with his offense?  I hated to see Teel go as well but never understood why fans thought they were "stuck" with a catcher who is clearly above average offensively and hope someone can explain that to me.  

[mvp 78]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

I don't think we should be extending Crochet. Let's see if we really have what we think we have before doing another Sale.

 

Keith Law calls him a TJ just waiting to happen. 

He just had TJS. Why would he get it right after? 

[mvp 78]

28 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Sorry for my ignorance by why are people so down on Connor Wong?  I understand his defense is below average but wouldn't a catcher with a career OPS of .833, a rare catcher with speed, make up for that defensive deficiency with his offense?  I hated to see Teel go as well but never understood why fans thought they were "stuck" with a catcher who is clearly above average offensively and hope someone can explain that to me.  

With Catchers over 400 PA's from 2023-24, Wong ranks 36th in fWAR. If we only care about his bat, his wRC+ ranks 24th. His DRS ranks 61st!

[Hugh2]

28 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Sorry for my ignorance by why are people so down on Connor Wong?  I understand his defense is below average but wouldn't a catcher with a career OPS of .833, a rare catcher with speed, make up for that defensive deficiency with his offense?  I hated to see Teel go as well but never understood why fans thought they were "stuck" with a catcher who is clearly above average offensively and hope someone can explain that to me.  

The defense isn't pretty, and the offense felt very fluky. 

He also fell off a cliff last year with a .696 OPS in the second half.  Some say he was tired, perhaps the Sox get more value out of Connor Wong if he plays less paired up with another catcher who can share 40% of the catching duty.  The underlying metrics aren't pretty, his statcast page is lit up blue reinforcing the luck with his bat. 

I happen to think that he could be better and look more like the guy we thought he was earlier in the year if he's paired up with a viable back up who can catch 60-70 games a year. 

[Larry Cook]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He just had TJS. Why would he get it right after? 

Because with the arm drag in his delivery, it is only a matter of time before the ucl pops again. Simple physics !!!

now if Bailey and driveline get him to alter his delivery, he can go for years without needing surgery again. 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Because with the arm drag in his delivery, it is only a matter of time before the ucl pops again. Simple physics !!!

now if Bailey and driveline get him to alter his delivery, he can go for years without needing surgery again. 

He'll probably get it again, but why this year or next? Chris Sale went a decade before getting TJS and everyone saw his mechanics. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Sorry for my ignorance by why are people so down on Connor Wong?  I understand his defense is below average but wouldn't a catcher with a career OPS of .833, a rare catcher with speed, make up for that defensive deficiency with his offense?  I hated to see Teel go as well but never understood why fans thought they were "stuck" with a catcher who is clearly above average offensively and hope someone can explain that to me.  

Saying "below average" is doing Wong a big favor. He sucks on D. He's maybe the worst of all MLB catchers with that much playing time.

I do think he can improve. Many of the best defensive catchers in MLB got there after age 28-30. VTek took a while, but he was never this awful to begin with.

I think we can keep finding Sandy Leon types to compliment Wong, and hope he can improve to "average" of slightly below, but how long can we wait for him to get to near average?

Our pitching and infield defense is already suspect, and having an awful defensive catcher has a multiplier effect.

[moonslav59]

53 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Because with the arm drag in his delivery, it is only a matter of time before the ucl pops again. Simple physics !!!

now if Bailey and driveline get him to alter his delivery, he can go for years without needing surgery again. 

It took a long time for Sale to have that injury, after 5+ years of hearing, "It will pop, anyday, now."

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

56 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Saying "below average" is doing Wong a big favor. He sucks on D. He's maybe the worst of all MLB catchers with that much playing time.

I do think he can improve. Many of the best defensive catchers in MLB got there after age 28-30. VTek took a while, but he was never this awful to begin with.

I think we can keep finding Sandy Leon types to compliment Wong, and hope he can improve to "average" of slightly below, but how long can we wait for him to get to near average?

Our pitching and infield defense is already suspect, and having an awful defensive catcher has a multiplier effect.

I saw the Red Sox steal, what was it 9 bases on the Yankees catcher?  Is Wong really worse defensively than that guy?  Is he really the worst defensive catcher in baseball?  I mean his fWAR does not lie, I don't really care about DRS so much, all I know is he hit .280 with an OPS of .758.  Even with the bad 2nd half those are better than average hitting stats for a catcher and he can run the bases which is very rare for a catcher.    

I'm not claiming he is a strength but trying to understand why so many feel he is a disaster.  If he really is a huge weakness then I need to re-evaluate what I think of this big trade.  

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I saw the Red Sox steal, what was it 9 bases on the Yankees catcher?  Is Wong really worse defensively than that guy?  Is he really the worst defensive catcher in baseball?  I mean his fWAR does not lie, I don't really care about DRS so much, all I know is he hit .280 with an OPS of .758, even with the bad 2nd half those are better than average hitting stats for a catcher and he can run the bases which is very rare for a catcher.    

I'm not claiming he is a strength but trying to understand why so many feel he is a disaster.  

He is the worst or close to it. Framing, blocking, throwing...

Statcast:

Blocking 64th out of 66 at -13

Framing 56h out of 58 at -7

Throwing 22nd at +1 (33rd in "pop time.")

Put them all together and he's the worst or very near it.

DRS

-14 (2nd worst in all MLB)

They score him 71st out of 72 in their overall score.

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I saw the Red Sox steal, what was it 9 bases on the Yankees catcher?  Is Wong really worse defensively than that guy?  Is he really the worst defensive catcher in baseball?  I mean his fWAR does not lie, I don't really care about DRS so much, all I know is he hit .280 with an OPS of .758.  Even with the bad 2nd half those are better than average hitting stats for a catcher and he can run the bases which is very rare for a catcher.    

I'm not claiming he is a strength but trying to understand why so many feel he is a disaster.  If he really is a huge weakness then I need to re-evaluate what I think of this big trade.  

He's just not great and the Sox could get better at that position without having to spend a lot of money. To me, I'd value a defensive first guy that could help the pitching staff rather than an offensive first guy like Wong. 

[FredLynn]

6 hours ago, Hitch said:

I don't think we should be extending Crochet. Let's see if we really have what we think we have before doing another Sale.

 

Keith Law calls him a TJ just waiting to happen. 

I believe he already had one TJ didn’t he? That’s a risk with every pitcher nowadays. My concern is that he’s got a very small track record. Still, it’s a chance we had to take since Henry was too cheap to pay for Fried.

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I believe he already had one TJ didn’t he? That’s a risk with every pitcher nowadays. My concern is that he’s got a very small track record. Still, it’s a chance we had to take since Henry was too cheap to pay for Fried.

This wasn't a move based on being cheap. It was to acquire a pitcher with the highest ceiling who was realistically available. Crochet has the potential be better than any other pitcher moved this offseason. It also may be a trade that just blows up in their face. 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

This wasn't a move based on being cheap. It was to acquire a pitcher with the highest ceiling who was realistically available. Crochet has the potential be better than any other pitcher moved this offseason. It also may be a trade that just blows up in their face. 

I think both things could be right in this situation. Being cheap, and getting a young pitcher with a high ceiling.

[notin]

14 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i would have rather sent him and kept Teel and Braden.

Mayer and especially Teel had the clearer paths to MLB than Montgomery, as the Sox control Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and Anthony all for the next 4 seasons minimum.

Teel is a big deal, as the Sox have nothing better than Wong above A ball (and maybe not even there).

Mayer, who’s only 4 months older than Montgomery, is already in AA and blocked by an oft-injured player who will definitely clear a path for Mayer by accident at some point.

As the White Sox best prospect is an MLB-ready shortstop named Colson Montgomery (no relation), I imagine that helped tip the scales in favor of Teel.  

[notin]

18 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

This wasn't a move based on being cheap. It was to acquire a pitcher with the highest ceiling who was realistically available. Crochet has the potential be better than any other pitcher moved this offseason. It also may be a trade that just blows up in their face. 

And the price wasn’t so ridiculous.  The Orioles traded away two top 100 prospects for just one season of Corin Burnes less than a year ago…

[FredLynn]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

This wasn't a move based on being cheap. It was to acquire a pitcher with the highest ceiling who was realistically available. Crochet has the potential be better than any other pitcher moved this offseason. It also may be a trade that just blows up in their face. 

See Old Red's post. Henry and his team are all talk until his actions prove otherwise. He's been unwilling to spend for top FAs for years and we haven't smelled October baseball since....when? I can't even remember. But I remember all those LAST PLACE finishes. Its time for him to PAY for some quality FAs. They are still out there-Burnes and Hernandez, to mention two.

[moonslav59]

Does Brez & Co. think Narvaez is the ML solution to tandem with Wong for 2025, or are we still looking, and Narvaez is just AAA depth?

[moonslav59]

Yankees trade Cortes and Durbin for closer Devin Williams.

[Hugh2]

2 hours ago, notin said:

And the price wasn’t so ridiculous.  The Orioles traded away two top 100 prospects for just one season of Corin Burnes less than a year ago…

That's the price they pay for certainty.  Burnes has more of a track record, and more seasons pitching over 140 innings. 

I'm ok with it. 

[bkzwhitestrican]

Seems like Yanks/Sox have been less averse to making trades with each other these past few years. Sox are looking for a starter and Yanks are looking for a first baseman. A Luis Gil for Casas trade would work for both teams.