Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[oldtimer]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

We have better depth than almost every other team. I'm not sure what the criteria is for "quality depth," as by definition, they are not starters. Last year, Houck was views as our 6th starter and Criswell our 8th or 9th. Rafaela, Abreu and DHam were viewed as role players or "depth."

This year, we can view Crawford or Gio as our 6th starter. Both have a higher projected fWAR than any other team's 6th starter. If that is not "quality," what is? Criswell, Fitts, Priester and Dobbins are our 7-10 on the depth chart. I doubt anyone has much better than that, unless they are injured pitchers on the depth chart.

Our pen has incredible depth, but I would agree with your point, here, and ask, how much of the depth is "quality/" We also lack a true lockdown closer, but maybe Chapman, Hendriks, Slaten or Whitlock can step up a slot and do okay. While many of the pen depth chart do not look "quality," so many have some level of promise, and there are so many of them, that it's hard to imagine almost all of them having a bad year, at once:

The likely 7: (not counting our 6th starter as a pen arm) Hendriks, Chapman, Slaten, Whitlock, Wink, Weissert & Wilson.

Pen depth: Bernardino was pretty damn good from 2023 to midway into 2024. Kelly & Penrod showed signs of promise in '24. We can convert a AAA SP'er to the pen: Criswell, Fitts, Priester, Dobbins and Fulmer. I Campbell has real promise.  (Drohan and Gambrel are long shots.) The rest are fringe or just hopefuls, but some have shown clear skills: Jovani Moran, Wyatt Mills, Bryan Mata, Noah Davis, Robert Stock, Sean Newcomb, Hobie Harris, Wyatt Olds and AA pitchers like Sandlin, Cruz, Webb, Hoppe, Troye and Celluci coudl rise. We don't even need 10-15% of these fringe guys to do well.

Our depth at the everyday positions is largely speculative, when it comes to our top 3 prospects, but what team has 3 top everyday prospects as highly ranked as ours? I think you have to call them quality, of nobody can say they have it.

Our catcher depth is not "quality," but it could be decent: Narvaez, Sabol, Zavala (Jo Garcia is too far away to count.)

1B depth depends on Devers being handed a 1Bman's mitt or not. (Romy & Wong are the depth, now.) We might need another Dom Smith type, if Casas goes down.

2B is loaded with good depth. Campbell, DHam, Romy, Grissom, Rafaela and either Story or Mayer.

SS has Mayer, but then it's Romy or Rafaela. Still, that looks close to quality as you can get.

3B now has Devers w Bregman, so it has greatly improved. (Romy and Campbell might be the only other real depth at 3B.)

OF is loaded, despite losing O'Neal and not signing anyone. Projections for our OF seem very low, to me, but we had one of MLB's best hitting and defensive OFs in 2024, and most are still moving towards prime: Duran, Abreu, Rafaela, Refsnyder, Yoshida and maybe Romy, Grissom or DHam can learn to play OF. Then there are Anthony and Campbell capable of winning a FT role and doing well. That looks top quality, to me.

The concept of depth is that there are backup players who are around league average who can sub in during short term periods of FT player absence.  To me it implies that we want our best players (those above league average) to get a substantial portion of the season reps. 

When we identify Anthony and Campbell as potential above league average players, it means to me that we want them as FT position players. That is especially true for our team which has done poorly over the recent past. 

With Bregman added to the team and both Devers and Casas likely fixtures in the lineup despite their lackluster fielding prowess, there are few opportunities for our new potential game changers from reaching the ML lineup. The best bet is in the outfield where we need to evaluate if Anthony and/or Capbell are better than Abreau, Rafaela and Yoshida. We have made one move to balance our lineup but are still heavy with left handed batters. Abreau is a quality player on  both sides of the ball, Rafaela is a quality fielder but with a weak bat. Personally I would move Rafaela to utility while trading Yoshida and Abreau. We need a closer and a quality backup catcher.

I'm an advocate of acting boldly. 

 

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

The concept of depth is that there are backup players who are around league average who can sub in during short term periods of FT player absence.  To me it implies that we want our best players (those above league average) to get a substantial portion of the season reps. 

When we identify Anthony and Campbell as potential above league average players, it means to me that we want them as FT position players. That is especially true for our team which has done poorly over the recent past. 

With Bregman added to the team and both Devers and Casas likely fixtures in the lineup despite their lackluster fielding prowess, there are few opportunities for our new potential game changers from reaching the ML lineup. The best bet is in the outfield where we need to evaluate if Anthony and/or Capbell are better than Abreau, Rafaela and Yoshida. We have made one move to balance our lineup but are still heavy with left handed batters. Abreau is a quality player on  both sides of the ball, Rafaela is a quality fielder but with a weak bat. Personally I would move Rafaela to utility while trading Yoshida and Abreau. We need a closer and a quality backup catcher.

I'm an advocate of acting boldly. 

To me, getting Bregman does not block Campbell at 2B, Mayer at SS or Anthony in CF or RF.

The main players squeezed are Yoshida, Rafaela and maybe DHam-Romy, if Bregman plays 2B. I do not think they keep Bregman at 2B, if they fully believe Campbell is gameday ready. I, personally do not think Refsnyder should or will be squeezed out of a role as always starting vs a LHPs, somewhere.

If this team can fully gel, we could see some amazing things.

Speaking of depth and subs, imagine Rafaela as our super utility guy and not starting. I may be one of the few fans happy with a DHam-Romy platoon at 2B, but having them on the bench would be awesome.

Our rotation depth is really nice, for once.

Our pen depth is numerous but not all that great.

[mvp 78]

Though Kennedy cautioned that nothing is imminent, he said the Red Sox will consider additional moves, both during spring training and right up to the trade deadline. Chief baseball officer Craig Breslow has suggested the possibility of adding another relief pitcher, and the Red Sox could also sign some of their incumbent players to contract extensions. Garrett Crochet would be one obvious candidate.

In either case, Kennedy called the CBT a “guidepost” that they have to pay attention to, but not a marker that dictates a club’s ultimate spending decisions.

[Hitch]

Adam Ottavino to the Red Sox. Minors deal with camp invite - John Heyman

[mvp 78]

25 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Adam Ottavino to the Red Sox. Minors deal with camp invite - John Heyman

Can't complain about that move. I think he could easily bump someone off the 26 man. 

[Hitch]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Can't complain about that move. I think he could easily bump someone off the 26 man. 

Agreed. Good deal on a minor contract with the option for more. 

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Agreed. Good deal on a minor contract with the option for more. 

As the Red Sox have found out the past few years you never can have enough arms.

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Agreed. Good deal on a minor contract with the option for more. 

Bring him in and if his stuff is bad, you can dump him. If he looks decent, put him on the roster. If he's pitching the 6th/7th, I'm fine....

[moonslav59]

We have a ton of arms coming into ST'ing. Some have low levels of promise, but others have moderate to higher levels. I like the idea of keeping the ones that look good in March. Let's not force ourselves into a Luis Garcia, Lucas Sims, Rich Hill and James Paxton situation in 2025. (not to mention Brad keller, Bailey Horn and others.)

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

We have a ton of arms coming into ST'ing. Some have low levels of promise, but others have moderate to higher levels. I like the idea of keeping the ones that look good in March. Let's not force ourselves into a Luis Garcia, Lucas Sims, Rich Hill and James Paxton situation in 2025. (not to mention Brad keller, Bailey Horn and others.)

We can live with one Keller/Horn for 5-10 innings of garbage time.  That's it! 🙂

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We can live with one Keller/Horn for 5-10 innings of garbage time.  That's it! 🙂

At least Robert Stock will post his way through those 10 innings. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

At least Robert Stock will post his way through those 10 innings. 

After the past half decade of suckitude, discerning fans expect more than a Stock answer to the pitching issues.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We can live with one Keller/Horn for 5-10 innings of garbage time.  That's it! 🙂

We will almost certainly add a pitcher from outside the system, during the season, but I am not sure we have ever had this many pitchers who look like they could see some time in the bigs, already in the system.

[Tedballgame]

Red Sox sign Adam Ottavino. I like it!

 

[notin]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Can't complain about that move. I think he could easily bump someone off the 26 man. 

He needs to bump someone off the 40 man first…

[notin]

3 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

After the past half decade of suckitude, discerning fans expect more than a Stock answer to the pitching issues.

You need to add a rimshot to your signature…

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

He needs to bump someone off the 40 man first…

60 day IL to the rescue. 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

You need to add a rimshot to your signature…

🥁

[Larry Cook]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

We have a ton of arms coming into ST'ing. Some have low levels of promise, but others have moderate to higher levels. I like the idea of keeping the ones that look good in March. Let's not force ourselves into a Luis Garcia, Lucas Sims, Rich Hill and James Paxton situation in 2025. (not to mention Brad keller, Bailey Horn and others.)

Amen brother !!!!!  I hope bres-slow has learned the value of depth!!!!!

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Larry Cook said:

Amen brother !!!!!  I hope bres-slow has learned the value of depth!!!!!

Brez did add quite a bit, last year, too. Besides players on the 26, like Slaten, O'Neall, I Campbell, Chase Anderson & Weissert, he also added 40 man and farm depth that played in the bigs in '24- some did well, some so-so and some not-so-well: Criswell, Fitts, Romy, Westbrook, Gasper, Heineman, and of course, much criticized Grissom, among others.

This winter was much more extensive and meaningful.

Over half the 40 man roster players were not on it, when Brez took over.

[mvp 78]

When your offseason is Blooming:

 

[vjcsmoke]

On 2/17/2025 at 3:03 PM, mvp 78 said:

Though Kennedy cautioned that nothing is imminent, he said the Red Sox will consider additional moves, both during spring training and right up to the trade deadline. Chief baseball officer Craig Breslow has suggested the possibility of adding another relief pitcher, and the Red Sox could also sign some of their incumbent players to contract extensions. Garrett Crochet would be one obvious candidate.

In either case, Kennedy called the CBT a “guidepost” that they have to pay attention to, but not a marker that dictates a club’s ultimate spending decisions.

Anyone else hear about the Red Sox interest in Sandy Alcantara?

What would it cost to land him and should we be in for him?

He's a two time all-star and the AL Cy Young just 2 year sago.

I would be very excited if he ends up in Boston, just not sure what the package would cost.

article: Red Sox Favored In Blockbuster Trade For $56 Million Cy Young Pitcher

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, vjcsmoke said:

Anyone else hear about the Red Sox interest in Sandy Alcantara?

What would it cost to land him and should we be in for him?

He's a two time all-star and the AL Cy Young just 2 year sago.

I would be very excited if he ends up in Boston, just not sure what the package would cost.

article: Red Sox Favored In Blockbuster Trade For $56 Million Cy Young Pitcher

Hey, he's another TJS pitcher, so sounds about right.

Pay $40M of Yoshida's $54M remaining, and include him in the deal. It might take trading a top 3 prospect to get him. Anthony, DHam, Yoshida and $40M for him?

Mayer, Abreu, Yoshida and $35M?

Not sure.

Maybe we can keep the kids and go Crawford, Bello, Rafaela, DHam and Cespedes.

[notin]

10 hours ago, vjcsmoke said:

Anyone else hear about the Red Sox interest in Sandy Alcantara?

What would it cost to land him and should we be in for him?

He's a two time all-star and the AL Cy Young just 2 year sago.

I would be very excited if he ends up in Boston, just not sure what the package would cost.

article: Red Sox Favored In Blockbuster Trade For $56 Million Cy Young Pitcher

No.

When I Google “Red Sox Alcantara”, the top ten matches are about Marvin.

Theres one article about a Red Sox/Mets trade war, but it’s a Fansided article, which means it has less journalistic relevance than the forums on Baseballtradevalues.com…

 

[Duran Is The Man]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Hey, he's another TJS pitcher, so sounds about right.

Pay $40M of Yoshida's $54M remaining, and include him in the deal. It might take trading a top 3 prospect to get him. Anthony, DHam, Yoshida and $40M for him?

Mayer, Abreu, Yoshida and $35M?

Not sure.

Maybe we can keep the kids and go Crawford, Bello, Rafaela, DHam and Cespedes.

Alcantara is a good pitcher but there is no way in hell i'm doing the Anthony deal you propose.

[Bellhorn04]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Hey, he's another TJS pitcher, so sounds about right.

Pay $40M of Yoshida's $54M remaining, and include him in the deal. It might take trading a top 3 prospect to get him. Anthony, DHam, Yoshida and $40M for him?

Mayer, Abreu, Yoshida and $35M?

What?????!!!!!  Hell no. 

Breslow already did the blockbuster and got Crochet without giving up any of the big 3. 

This would be lunacy.

 

 

[notin]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Hey, he's another TJS pitcher, so sounds about right.

Pay $40M of Yoshida's $54M remaining, and include him in the deal. It might take trading a top 3 prospect to get him. Anthony, DHam, Yoshida and $40M for him?

Mayer, Abreu, Yoshida and $35M?

Not sure.

Maybe we can keep the kids and go Crawford, Bello, Rafaela, DHam and Cespedes.

Anthony?  Why not throw in Duran as well?

Every trade is NOT an opportunity to unload a deal you don’t like.  Why drive up the price on the last 2 years of a pitcher who hasn’t pitched since 2023 just so the first Sox injury can get Romy into the starting lineup?

BTV suggests Abreu and Hamilton is fair.  I think they overvalue Hamilton.  Maybe Abreu, but only slightly.  
 

Abreu and Arias for Alcantara?  It seems reasonable.  Miami might prefer a bigger name.  But 5 years of a 3+ year Gold Glove RF plus a top 100 prospect for two years of Alcantara?  Fair or not?  And would it interest Miami, who might prefer an unfair deal?

[moonslav59]

I was thinking they'd demand Anthony or Mayer, if we included Yoshida.

I think my "not sure" statement was light, although I would consider giving up a lot with Yoshida for someone with his promise.

[moonslav59]

Is David Robertson still unsigned?

[Bellhorn04]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I was thinking they'd demand Anthony or Mayer, if we included Yoshida.

And yet you'd still be throwing in 35-40 million.