Trades?

[Bellhorn04]

I hate the rule, but I also hate the exploitation that lead to it. It should have never come to that. It also could have been handled by eliminating/limiting September call ups (which was also done, thankfully)...

 

I like the fact that you can still limit the appearance to 1 or 2 batters if they are the final outs of the inning and you get the job done. I think that makes it a fair compromise.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I just saw that Noah Syndergaard is planning a comeback in 2025. Perfectly fits the criteria of guys Sox like to sign. 1 year deal for under 10 million.

 

We only want him if he's hurt.

[Maxbialystock]

I like the fact that you can still limit the appearance to 1 or 2 batters if they are the final outs of the inning and you get the job done. I think that makes it a fair compromise.

 

Agree. The rule was intended to reduce delays, but final outs mean no delays if a new pitcher starts the next inning.

[mvp 78]

I just saw that Noah Syndergaard is planning a comeback in 2025. Perfectly fits the criteria of guys Sox like to sign. 1 year deal for under 10 million.

 

He's been awful for a long time. I don't see it. There's nothing about his stuff that screams Red Sox, Bailey or Breslow.

[Duran Is The Man]

we only want him if he's hurt.

 

lol...

[moonslav59]

I just saw that Noah Syndergaard is planning a comeback in 2025. Perfectly fits the criteria of guys Sox like to sign. 1 year deal for under 10 million.

 

Just say no!

[Randy Red Sox]

that is about what i expect too

[Randy Red Sox]

He's been awful for a long time. I don't see it. There's nothing about his stuff that screams Red Sox, Bailey or Breslow.

 

you can't deny though that that is the kind of guys we have been on

[Bellhorn04]

There isn’ta team out there whose starting rotation wouldn’t be upgraded with the addition of a former Cy Young winner…

 

That's what Bloom thought when he signed Kluber.

[mvp 78]

you can't deny though that that is the kind of guys we have been on

 

Denied.

 

Paxton was injured but always had good stuff.

 

Kluber was getting older but had a decent FIP the year before signing.

 

Syndergaard has had more than enough time since injury to show that he just flat out sucks now. He was overrated as a Met and isn't worth a 40 man spot now.

[mvp 78]

That's what Bloom thought when he signed Kluber.

 

Can't always tell when time will catch up with an older player. It was worth the risk.

[Dipre]

The problem wasn't signing Kluber, the problem was not signing other pitchers.

[Maxbialystock]

Can't always tell when time will catch up with an older player. It was worth the risk.

 

Wow. I never thought you would be the leading excuse-maker for the Sox front office. Granted, JH put restrictions on starters by saying no to 5 or more years @ $20M/year or more or something like that.

 

The genius of Scott Boras is that he has managed to do better than that for a whole flock of MLB starters. Also position players although they are lower risk (but not risk-free).

 

The end result is that, since 2019, Sox CBO's have been squeezed by Scott Boras on one side and John Henry on the other. Bloom brought in some pretty expensive pitching duds--all below the John Henry $100M line, and Breslow, barely out of the gate, grabbed Giolito for $38M, half of which is already down the drain and the other half in doubt, and sent Sale and $17M to the Braves where Sale is now a contender for the NL Cy Young award.

 

Breslow gets great credit for insisting on a new pitching coach and bringing in Bailey, who has been pure gold. But I would argue that the Sox CBO's, including DD, have not been very smart in acquiring starters.

[Bellhorn04]

The problem wasn't signing Kluber, the problem was not signing other pitchers.

 

That's my line too.

 

And the same principle applies to trading Sale and signing Giolito.

[Bellhorn04]

Breslow gets great credit for insisting on a new pitching coach and bringing in Bailey, who has been pure gold. But I would argue that the Sox CBO's, including DD, have not been very smart in acquiring starters.

 

DD's approach is pretty simple: go for the prime cuts and pay them whatever you have to.

 

I would argue it's been a pretty successful approach over the years.

 

Starting pitchers just get less and less reliable and durable all the time.

 

Also let's not forget that DD left us Bello, Crawford and Houck.

[Dipre]

That's my line too.

 

And the same principle applies to trading Sale and signing Giolito.

 

If they sign Giolito and Elfin, we still have Houck as ace and an actual 5th starter.

[notin]

DD's approach is pretty simple: go for the prime cuts and pay them whatever you have to.

 

I would argue it's been a pretty successful approach over the years.

 

Starting pitchers just get less and less reliable and durable all the time.

 

Also let's not forget that DD left us Bello, Crawford and Houck.

 

 

Not any more. He let Zack Eflin walk and signed Matt Strahm for much less. He’s playing a different game in Philly…

[Bellhorn04]

Not any more. He let Zack Eflin walk and signed Matt Strahm for much less. He’s playing a different game in Philly…

 

He's got 8 guys with AAV's of $18 million or more. He didn't sign all of them. But he's had some pretty nice budgets to work with.

[moonslav59]

DD's approach is pretty simple: go for the prime cuts and pay them whatever you have to.

 

I would argue it's been a pretty successful approach over the years.

 

Starting pitchers just get less and less reliable and durable all the time.

 

Also let's not forget that DD left us Bello, Crawford and Houck.

 

It helps that JH allowed DD to sign Price to the biggest contract in Sox history by about 50% (until Devers.)

 

JH also allowed him to sign Sale & Nate (over Betts.)

 

JH also allowed the Porcello and Beckett extensions and Lackey signing.

 

I do not think he allowed Bloom to go higher than what was offered to Eflin and Nate, and we missed out on both. Chances are, there might have been others like those two, but nothing gigantic.

[Bellhorn04]

It helps that JH allowed DD to sign Price to the biggest contract in Sox history by about 50% (until Devers.)

 

JH also allowed him to sign Sale & Nate (over Betts.)

 

I think "after Betts" would be more accurate.

[notin]

He's got 8 guys with AAV's of $18 million or more. He didn't sign all of them. But he's had some pretty nice budgets to work with.

 

But his signing of Strahm shows he can make a shrewd, cost effective signing if he needs to…

[mvp 78]

The problem wasn't signing Kluber, the problem was not signing other pitchers.

 

Ding ding.

[mvp 78]

Wow. I never thought you would be the leading excuse-maker for the Sox front office.

 

Kluber wasn't a problematic signing. However, he shouldn't have been relied on to be anything more than a middle of the rotation guy. Having him be the Opening Day Starter really put the nail in his coffin. The goal that offseason wasn't "sign one guy" but "sign multiple guys." Waiting on Paxton to get healthy instead of signing another arm was foolish.

[moonslav59]

I think "after Betts" would be more accurate.

 

Agreed.

 

In terms of new pitcher additions, we swung and missed on many dumpster dives and mid-level signings and trades, after the Sale/Nate extensions.

 

Here are the ones who worked out okay or better, some "borderline" okay. (We missed on the "timing" with Perez I and II and Springs.)

 

Trades: Pivetta & Winckowski

Rule 5: Whitlock

FAs: Wacha, Hill, Paxton, Criswell (Perez had the same ERA as Bello has.)

 

Our homegrowns have done better: Houck, Crawford, Bello

[moonslav59]

I'm a big fan of Abreu, and I loved the Vaz trade, but I also think other GMs like him, too. We appear to have some blocked prospects that are ML or near ML ready and some young ML'ers we could package together to get a better player than Abreu, but who bats RH'd. We lose O'Neill, this winter, so it would help for 2025 and beyond, too.

 

Abreu plus a combination of 1-3 from these guys for a RHB who plays RF:

Valdez

McGuire

Yorke

Lugo

Meidroth

Paulino

Castro

Romero

Kavadas

Hickey, Jordan, Wikelman, Guerrero, ICoffey, T Miller, McDonough, Decker

Mata (out of options and would be nice to trade, soon)

Winckowski (for the right guy, and if he is still half in the doghouse)

[moonslav59]

Here is a list or players on teams that might be sellers. It does not mean they are available or worth trading for:

 

(In order of games behind WC slot and with 2024 fWAR 1.0+ pitchers/ 2.0+ batter w some notables under 2.0)

 

-27.5 CWS

3.9 Crochet

2.7 Fedde

1.2 Robert Jr.

0.9 DeJong

-17.5 OAK

1.8 M Miller

3.0 Rooker

1.4 Bleday

 

-16.5 MIA

1.4 Chisholm

 

-16.0 COL

1.7 Feltner

2.9 B Doyle

2.2 McMahon

2.1 Tovar

 

-12.5 LAA

1.3 Sandoval

1.2 T Anderson

1.0 Soriano

 

-9.5 TOR

2.0 Kikuchi

2.0 Bassitt

1.6 Gausman

0.2 Berrios

2.1 Varsho

2.0 I Kiner-Falefa

1.5 Vlad

 

-7.5 TEX

1.9 J Gray

1.7 Nate

1.4 Heaney

1.4 Robertson

1.3 K Yates

3.2 Josh Smith

2.5 C Seager

2.5 M Semien

 

-7.0 DET

3.4 Skubal

2.3 R Olsen

2.1 Flaherty

1.3 Mize

3.0 R Greene

 

-6.0 WSH

2.5 Gore

1.8 Irvin

1.7 T Williams

1.5 M Parker

1.1 Floro

2.2 CJ Abrams

1.8 L Garcia Jr

0.6 Winker

 

-5.5 TBR

1.6 Eflin

1.5 Littell

1.3 Pepiot

1.0 Bradley

3.0 Paredes

0.4 Arozarena

 

Possible:

-3.5 CHC

2.5 Imanaga

1.8 Steele

1.5 Taillon

1.3 B Brown

0.9 Leiter Jr

2.2 M Busch

2.0 Hoerner

2.0 Happ

1.4 Suzuki

1.2 Swanson

0,8 Bellinger

 

-3.0 SFG

2.9 L Webb

1.0 R Walker

3.5 P Bailey

2.4 M Chapman

2.4 H Ramos

1.1 Yaz

 

-3.0 CIN

2.3 H Greene

1.6 N Martinez

1.3 Lodolo

1.0 F Cruz

4.4 E de la Cruz

2.4 India

 

-1.5 PIT

1.7 M Keller

1.5 J Jones

1.2 L Ortiz

2.0 B Reynolds

1.7 O Cruz

[d-money]

I'm a big fan of Abreu, and I loved the Vaz trade, but I also think other GMs like him, too. We appear to have some blocked prospects that are ML or near ML ready and some young ML'ers we could package together to get a better player than Abreu, but who bats RH'd. We lose O'Neill, this winter, so it would help for 2025 and beyond, too.

 

Abreu plus a combination of 1-3 from these guys for a RHB who plays RF:

Valdez

McGuire

Yorke

Lugo

Meidroth

Paulino

Castro

Romero

Kavadas

Hickey, Jordan, Wikelman, Guerrero, ICoffey, T Miller, McDonough, Decker

Mata (out of options and would be nice to trade, soon)

Winckowski (for the right guy, and if he is still half in the doghouse)

 

 

Hunter Greene I like. Don’t know how much they would have to be give up but the potential is there. Maybe the sox can get the best out of him.

[notin]

Hunter Greene I like. Don’t know how much they would have to be give up but the potential is there. Maybe the sox can get the best out of him.

 

I doubt the Reds have any interest in marketing Greene. But if they do, the Sox have a pitching philosophy about avoiding 4 seam fastballs. That’s Greene’s best pitch…

[d-money]

I doubt the Reds have any interest in marketing Greene. But if they do, the Sox have a pitching philosophy about avoiding 4 seam fastballs. That’s Greene’s best pitch…

 

Kid has good lively stuff though. Haven’t been able to harness it in cincy.

[harmony]

From Twins Daily, a fan site for the Minnesota Twins:

 

How Twins and Red Sox Could Match Up on an Edouard Julien Trade - Twins - Twins Daily

TWINSDAILY.COM

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Maybe these two AL Wild Card leaders can help one another by trading from strengths to address a key shortcoming.