Trades?

[Bellhorn04]

Just because they traded Ragans doesn’t mean they lost faith in him. Sometimes you have to pay the price and Ragans was clearly a guy KC targeted

 

To paraphrase this multi-faceted question - what would be a bigger help in getting the 2024 Red Sox into the postseason? Jansen? Or a pitcher like Ragans?

 

Certainly the Sox absolutely need starting pitching. Jansen has been solid in his bullpen role, but some folks on the Sox apparently think Liam Hendriks might return this year.

 

Yes, but you would need some kind of crystal ball to project 2023 Ragans's numbers with the Rangers, where he'd been moved to the bullpen, to his numbers with the Royals - and it happened almost literally overnight.

 

Normally in a deal like this you don't get such immediate help in return.

[notin]

Might return isn’t good enough. The Red Sox need Jansen Now. Of course they need at least one more solid starter also.

 

Do they need Jansen more than a SP? If they need the SP more, “might return” might be good enough. Especially considering how thin their starting rotation is. They really only have four starters NOW and with some of these guys approaching career high in IP already, the staff is currently so precarious that there’s a good chance the closer won’t matter if nothing is done about the rotation…

[Bellhorn04]

Might return isn’t good enough. The Red Sox need Jansen Now. Of course they need at least one more solid starter also.

 

They might need another reliever now just as much, with Smith and Slaten on the IL.

[Bellhorn04]

Do they need Jansen more than a SP? If they need the SP more, “might return” might be good enough. Especially considering how thin their starting rotation is. They really only have four starters NOW and with some of these guys approaching career high in IP already, the staff is currently so precarious that there’s a good chance the closer won’t matter if nothing is done about the rotation…

 

They need help in both areas.

[Old Red]

They might need another reliever now just as much, with Smith and Slaten on the IL.

 

You don’t know how much you’ll get, or can count on Martin.

[Old Red]

Do they need Jansen more than a SP? If they need the SP more, “might return” might be good enough. Especially considering how thin their starting rotation is. They really only have four starters NOW and with some of these guys approaching career high in IP already, the staff is currently so precarious that there’s a good chance the closer won’t matter if nothing is done about the rotation…

They need both, but the back end of the BP has thinned out the last few weeks too.

[notin]

Yes, but you would need some kind of crystal ball to project 2023 Ragans's numbers with the Rangers, where he'd been moved to the bullpen, to his numbers with the Royals - and it happened almost literally overnight.

 

Normally in a deal like this you don't get such immediate help in return.

 

 

Don’t draw too close of a parallel here.

 

Say the Dodgers offered an uninjured Michael Grove or Landon Knack for Jansen. Would it be worth moving the closer to save the rotation (somewhat)?

Edited July 13, 2024 by notin

[notin]

They need both, but the back end of the BP has thinned out the last few weeks too.

 

True, but they might be able to get 60 IP (or more) out of a starter. Jansen might only pitch 15-20 IP the rest of the way…

Edited July 13, 2024 by notin

[Randy Red Sox]

madstork is the board's resident troll. He's so much of a troll that he won't even disclose who his team is.

 

lol

[Bellhorn04]

True, but they might be able to get 60 IP (or more) out of a starter. Jansen might only pitch 15-20 IP the rest of the way…

 

Well yeah, but the IP tend to be critical ones, and that's exactly why closers have landed such big returns at the deadline.

[notin]

Well yeah, but the IP tend to be critical ones, and that's exactly why closers have landed such big returns at the deadline.

 

But how many are truly critical? I mean, is getting 3 outs without giving up 2 or more runs really a specialized skill possessed by only a limited number of MLB pitchers?

 

Not to mention, if the Sox don’t get any rotation depth soon, that 20 IP number expected from a closer could drop significantly…

[notin]

They might need another reliever now just as much, with Smith and Slaten on the IL.

 

Who is Smith? Or did you mean Martin? Or were you possibly referring to character actor Charles Martin Smith?

[Bellhorn04]

But how many are truly critical? I mean, is getting 3 outs without giving up 2 or more runs really a specialized skill possessed by only a limited number of MLB pitchers?

 

I think we may have been over this before LOL

 

Ask Theo Epstein or Chris Young - they're the ones who gave up a lot for Chapman. I think they have pretty good baseball minds.

[Bellhorn04]

Who is Smith? Or did you mean Martin? Or were you possibly referring to character actor Charles Martin Smith?

 

That's at least the second time I've effed up his name.

[notin]

I think we may have been over this before LOL

 

Ask Theo Epstein or Chris Young - they're the ones who gave up a lot for Chapman. I think they have pretty good baseball minds.

 

 

Young gave up more for a starter. Two actually…

[notin]

That's at least the second time I've effed up his name.

 

As long as we know you mean the boring bullpen WASPy name…

[Bellhorn04]

Young gave up more for a starter. Two actually…

 

The main point is that if the Red Sox want to make a playoff run, they need help in both the rotation and the bullpen.

 

Trading Jansen for a starter would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[moonslav59]

The trade proposal was for both -- RHH bench guys, even with good splits, just aren't enough vs. a tough lefty like Ragans, as we saw last night.

 

Yes, I saw that, but why not 2 pitchers instead of Vald?

 

Many of our current SPers are nearing or already over their career highs in IP. We can’t ruin these guys’ arms, and we have to plan for postseason IP, too.

 

Going to a 6 man rotation would help.

 

While I see a need for a RHB, and SS, 2B or 1B seems to be the best fit, 1B will be covered in 2025, so if we go RH bat at 1B, it seems better to find a rental, and pay less in prospects than Vlad would cost. Now, if we could get TOR to take Yoshida, even if we have to add another good, but not top 6/7 prospect, I’d love to get Vladdy. He could DH and back up 1B in 2025. The money part of a deal with TOR would have to meet JHs needs, and TOR might not care as much about the money as other sellers are: they want the best return of prospects or young controlled ML players.

 

On Teel to TOR, I think tge catcher position there is a big strength and has excellent depth.

 

I think it might take Anthony, Yorke, Fitts, Lugo, Yoshida and maybe a little cash for…

 

Vlad and Kiruchi

Vlad and Berrios

Vlad and Gausman (no cash needed for Yoshi pay down)

 

I’d prefer 2 of those 3 pitchers, preferably the 2 with most team control.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

What would it take to outbid everyone for Crochet?

 

I’m thinking one from Anthony,Teel or Mayer plus someone like Fitts and Yorke or Bleis and Lugo.

 

I’d probably do it, but I’d have to think about it more.

 

[moonslav59]

I haven’t read every post here and don’t know how many years of control these guys have but here are the highest FWAR pitchers on teams that might be sellers:

Crochet CWS

Skubal DET

Fedde CWS

H Greene CIN

M Gore WSH

Olsen DET

Flaherty DET

Irvin WSH

Bassitt TOR

Kikuchi TOR

Keller PIT

J Gray TEX

T Williams WSH

ZEflin TBR

Littell TBR

RFeltner, Gausman, N Martinez, Eovaldi, J Jones, Heaney, M Parker, Mize, Lodolo, Sandoval, T Anderson

 

 

 

 

 

 

[notin]

The main point is that if the Red Sox want to make a playoff run, they need help in both the rotation and the bullpen.

 

Trading Jansen for a starter would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

Well, Mr. Gorman, sometimes Paul needs the money more…

[Bellhorn04]

Well, Mr. Gorman, sometimes Paul needs the money more…

 

With Martin and Slaten on the IL, I'm not seeing the bullpen as clearly in better shape than the rotation.

[moonslav59]

With Martin and Slaten on the IL, I'm not seeing the bullpen as clearly in better shape than the rotation.

 

How long are both going to be out?

 

Can we count on anything from Hendriks?

 

If we add a SPer and don’t go to a 6 man rotation, as I think we should, does adding Criswell to the pen as the new long man help enough?

[Bellhorn04]

How long are both going to be out?

 

Can we count on anything from Hendriks?

 

If we add a SPer and don’t go to a 6 man rotation, as I think we should, does adding Criswell to the pen as the new long man help enough?

 

Don't know the answer to the first two questions. Slaten's injury sounds very ominous.

 

I think the idea of trading Jansen for a starter is fine for academic debate, but has little connection to realistic possibilities.

[moonslav59]

Don't know the answer to the first two questions. Slaten's injury sounds very ominous.

 

I think the idea of trading Jansen for a starter is fine for academic debate, but has little connection to realistic possibilities.

 

I’m squarely against trading Jansen.

 

This team has heart and soul. Why crush it?

[moonslav59]

Nate went 7 allowing just 1 run vs the streaking Astros. No walks.

The game is tied 1-1 in the 8th.

 

Could we trade for Nate for the second time?

 

[Nick]

The main point is that if the Red Sox want to make a playoff run, they need help in both the rotation and the bullpen.

 

Trading Jansen for a starter would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

There is just no reason at this point trading Jansen.

 

We need him. His salary is baked in.

 

Not to mention what a PR nightmare it would be.

 

Go get a starter better than Criswell.

[notin]

Don't know the answer to the first two questions. Slaten's injury sounds very ominous.

 

I think the idea of trading Jansen for a starter is fine for academic debate, but has little connection to realistic possibilities.

 

And all it is on here is an academic debate

[notin]

Nate went 7 allowing just 1 run vs the streaking Astros. No walks.

The game is tied 1-1 in the 8th.

 

Could we trade for Nate for the second time?

 

 

I ranked Nate #3 on my list of pitching targets. I ranked him behind Kikuchi because Nate’s contract is more likely to brr eR an issue.

 

But he made my short list. Which means he probably didn’t make the list of Breslow, that petty bitch…

[Bellhorn04]

Eovaldi's contract has a vesting option for 2025 that kicks in if he pitches 300 innings in 2023-2024. He's on target to get there if he can stay out of the shop.