A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[cp176]

The Mookie Betts trade will live in infamy forever. Hard to compare anything else to it. As for the Sale trade, we should probably wait a while longer to fully evaluate it. But if you told the average fan that the Sox had just traded Chris Sale for Vaughn Grissom, the response would be," Are you kidding me? You can't be serious."

 

I absolutely hated the Chris Sale trade on the day I heard about it and will continue to hate it going forward. In whose world do you trade pitching - even simply the potential for pitching at the level of Sale for a young untried not a very good fielding second baseman. If money was saved, how's that working out right now. There were and will always be other options to fill a void at second base than trading away any kind of pitching. I will admit though that I am huge sale fan. He did more for us simply by sitting in the dugout than some have done on the field.

[Old Red]

We only extend players that are getting ready to s*** the bed like Whitlock, Rafaela and Bello.

 

I was OK with Whit, and mostly on Bello, but not so much on the RAF Man.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The actual parallel here is with the first offseasons of the Chaim Bloom and Craig Breslow Eras.

 

Bloom's fresh start was to rid Boston of what had devolved into a miserable David Price experience: miserable to the press, including fan favorite Dennis Eckersly -- and miserable to viewers, who wasted hours of their lives suffering through agonizingly deliberate deliveries (pre pitch clock).

 

Breslow's fresh start was to relieve Red Sox Nation and the organization of the long agony of counting on the return of Chris Sale to regular turns in the rotation.

 

Price and Sale were also the two costliest remnants of the Dombrowski Era, and Boston willingly paid part of their salaries to pitch elsewhere. The big difference is that Atlanta actually wanted Sale, as their immediate extension shows. Price was so unwanted that the Sox had to kick in a Hall of Famer to make him go away...

[mvp 78]

I was OK with Whit, and mostly on Bello, but not so much on the RAF Man.

 

The Whitlock extension was before they broke him in the rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

At the time of the trade, how would you have felt, if we extended him like ATL did?

 

The Braves got a pretty sweet deal out of it if Sale stays on the field.

 

2 years for $38 million, plus a team option for a third year at $18 million, minus the $17 million they got from us.

 

So they're at risk for a maximum of $21 million, which, again, is about what we're paying Giolito this year.

 

The Red Sox had a team option on Sale for 2025 at $20 million.

[Old Red]

The Whitlock extension was before they broke him in the rotation.

 

Yes, but I believe they signed him with the intention of making him a starter.

[mvp 78]

The Braves got a pretty sweet deal out of it if Sale stays on the field.

 

2 years for $38 million, plus a team option for a third year at $18 million, minus the $17 million they got from us.

 

So they're at risk for a maximum of $21 million, which, again, is about what we're paying Giolito this year.

 

The Red Sox had a team option on Sale for 2025 at $20 million.

 

Sale has a whopping 3M CBT hit for the Braves this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Sale has a whopping 3M CBT hit for the Braves this year.

 

We're here to help teams like the Braves.

[moonslav59]

The Braves got a pretty sweet deal out of it if Sale stays on the field.

 

2 years for $38 million, plus a team option for a third year at $18 million, minus the $17 million they got from us.

 

So they're at risk for a maximum of $21 million, which, again, is about what we're paying Giolito this year.

 

The Red Sox had a team option on Sale for 2025 at $20 million.

 

Looks great, now.

 

Can I ask, did you hear one single poster advocating an extension of Sale, before the trade?

 

Hell, we were still hearing about how bad his last extension from back in 2019.

[Old Red]

Looks great, now.

 

Can I ask, did you hear one single poster advocating an extension of Sale, before the trade?

 

Hell, we were still hearing about how bad his last extension from back in 2019.

 

Nobody wanted another extension for Sale, and why would they. Why are we Still hearing about the last extension for Sale is an Easy one. They are STILL paying on that bad extension. Duh. C’mon man.

[Maxbialystock]

Is it possible that the Sox, who reportedly are now worth more than $5B, are in fact cash poor? Attendance is down--in fact, way down from 2019, the last season before covid. I'll bet TV and radio revenues are down too. Same goes for online viewership via mlb.com.

 

I read somewhere their profit margin is $62M, which looks awfully small to me given the total cost of everything, including players, especially those (Story, Yoshida, Giolito, Sale, etc) who don't actually play for the Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

Looks great, now.

 

Can I ask, did you hear one single poster advocating an extension of Sale, before the trade?

 

We didn't need to do an extension. We had an option on him for 2025.

 

Like I say, what irks me is that we didn't have much to lose by keeping him.

 

It was a needless move.

[Old Red]

We didn't need to do an extension. We had an option on him for 2025.

 

Like I say, what irks me is that we didn't have much to lose by keeping him.

 

It was a needless move.

 

I guess the $10M was that important. Great deal for the Braves though.

[Bellhorn04]

Sale is pitching tonight, I should probably shut up about him now until I see how that goes.

[Nick]

Yes, but I believe they signed him with the intention of making him a starter.

 

Yes they have always thought of him as a starter

[Nick]

Sales' trade with White Sox was Freakin' good.

 

His extension SUCKED.

[dgalehouse]

I don't know that there is any valid reason that a pitcher would stay healthier as a reliever than as a starter. I think it is more a matter of genetics, physical condition, pitching style and just plain luck.

[moonslav59]

We didn't need to do an extension. We had an option on him for 2025.

 

Like I say, what irks me is that we didn't have much to lose by keeping him.

 

It was a needless move.

 

We needed a 2Bman.

 

Apparently, JH needed to save money.

 

The uncertainty of Sale's ability to stay healthy played a major role in the choice. As it turned out, iraon man Gio is out for the year, and Sale looks like a HE-Man, again... for now.

 

Not spending the money saved by the trade, unless we want to count adding O'Neill's deal, which would be a major stretch, made the deal look worse. Grissom's start makes it look worse, too.

[Dipre]

We didn't need to do an extension. We had an option on him for 2025.

 

Like I say, what irks me is that we didn't have much to lose by keeping him.

 

It was a needless move.

 

I bet Sale gets injured halfway through the season and this discussion becomes a non-issue.

[Dipre]

I guess the $10M was that important. Great deal for the Braves though.

 

IF

 

He stays healthy. I'm not betting on it.

[Dipre]

I don't know that there is any valid reason that a pitcher would stay healthier as a reliever than as a starter. I think it is more a matter of genetics, physical condition, pitching style and just plain luck.

 

Less overall strain because of lower pitch counts, reduced repertoire, less pitching while fatigued, simplified repertoire, better rest overall.

[dgalehouse]

Less overall strain because of lower pitch counts, reduced repertoire, less pitching while fatigued, simplified repertoire, better rest overall.

 

Seems to me that some starters get hurt and some don't. Some relievers get hurt and some don't. Right now, it seems many starters and many relievers are getting hurt.

[Dipre]

Seems to me that some starters get hurt and some don't. Some relievers get hurt and some don't. Right now, it seems many starters and many relievers are getting hurt.

 

Yeah but starters are dropping like flies to TJS. I'll bet if we look it up, the rate of serious injury (6+ months on the shelf) is significantly higher on a percentage basis for starters than relievers.

[dgalehouse]

Yeah but starters are dropping like flies to TJS. I'll bet if we look it up, the rate of serious injury (6+ months on the shelf) is significantly higher on a percentage basis for starters than relievers.

 

That might be. I really have no idea what the numbers are on that. And I positively do not want to research it.

[Dipre]

That might be. I really have no idea what the numbers are on that. And I positively do not want to research it.

 

I'll look it up tomorrow. Someone has for sure done this research.

[notin]

Less overall strain because of lower pitch counts, reduced repertoire, less pitching while fatigued, simplified repertoire, better rest overall.

 

Starters throw more innings but relievers throw harder (than they would as starters). I think the greater workload probably trumps the greater effort when it comes to injuries…

[dgalehouse]

Starters pitch more innings, but they also get more rest. Relievers pitch in more games and have fewer days off. Anyway, I am not so sure that Whitlock would continue to be healthier as a reliever.

[moonslav59]

Starters pitch more innings, but they also get more rest. Relievers pitch in more games and have fewer days off. Anyway, I am not so sure that Whitlock would continue to be healthier as a reliever.

 

Nothing is for sure, especially with Whitlock.

[Old Red]

Starters pitch more innings, but they also get more rest. Relievers pitch in more games and have fewer days off. Anyway, I am not so sure that Whitlock would continue to be healthier as a reliever.

 

We don’t know if Whit would continue to be healthier as a reliever, but we do know when he was a reliever is the Only year that he has stayed healthy. He got mostly 2-3 days between appearances also.

[dgalehouse]

We don’t know if Whit would continue to be healthier as a reliever, but we do know when he was a reliever is the Only year that he has stayed healthy. He got mostly 2-3 days between appearances also.

 

It's true that he was healthier and more effective in 2021 when he strictly relieved. I just don't know if that is enough to go by. He just might be a guy who has trouble staying healthy.