A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[Old Red]

It's true that he was healthier and more effective in 2021 when he strictly relieved. I just don't know if that is enough to go by. He just might be a guy who has trouble staying healthy.

 

I’ve been saying since 2021 that Whit should stay in the pen, and be a late inning guy, but I know others have a different opinion.

[moonslav59]

Starters pitch more innings, but they also get more rest. Relievers pitch in more games and have fewer days off. Anyway, I am not so sure that Whitlock would continue to be healthier as a reliever.

 

It's hard to know for sure, which is harder on the arm, but it does seem like SP'ers have more TJSs than RP'ers.

[Maxbialystock]

It's hard to know for sure, which is harder on the arm, but it does seem like SP'ers have more TJSs than RP'ers.

 

I'm no expert, but I think relief pitchers can get by with a simpler assortment of pitches, which should be less stressful on the arm.

[Larry Cook]

It's hard to know for sure, which is harder on the arm, but it does seem like SP'ers have more TJSs than RP'ers.

 

Another factor is effort in the delivery! Pitchers with effort in their delivery seem to end up with UCL tears.

[Maxbialystock]

Sox back to .500 with a sweet win tonight at the trop--3 dingers plus Houck at his best for 7 shutout innings.

[Maxbialystock]

I’ve been saying since 2021 that Whit should stay in the pen, and be a late inning guy, but I know others have a different opinion.

 

Whitlock was not a good closer in 2021, period. His strength was long relief.

[Old Red]

Whitlock was not a good closer in 2021, period. His strength was long relief.

 

I wasn’t talking about being the closer, but 7-8 inning guy.

[Old Red]

Sale is pitching tonight, I should probably shut up about him now until I see how that goes.

 

Went pretty well. 7 inning 5H shutout with 9 K’s.

[moonslav59]

Whit did finish 11 games in 2021, although not in the traditional closer-type role. I think all but 3 were 2+ inning closeouts.

 

In 2022, he finished the game in 4 of his first 5 relief games, before moving to the rotation.

8.2 IP in his first 3 games, combined, and the last one was a 9th inning-only game.

After returning to the pen, in '22, he finished the game in 7 out of 9 straight games, before finishing the year with 5 games as a strict 7-8th inning guy.

[moonslav59]

Only Seth Lugo has more IP and a lower ERA than Houck.

 

0.1 IP more

 

1.79 ERA to 1.94

 

Where are the posters who laughed at the idea of signing him?

 

(I'm sure I'll hear from them, if he falls off a cliff.)

[moonslav59]

58+ IP ERA Leaders

 

1.37 Suarez

1.79 Lugo

1.94 Houck

2.17 Crawford

2.52 Wheeler

2.56 Burnes

2.90 Glasnow

2.98 Berrios

3.05 Cease & Nola

3.10 Fedde

3.20 Gilbert

3.28 L Castillo

 

A lot of these guys changed teams in the last year or two.

 

Others between 50IP and 57 IP

0.84 Imanaga (another guy I hoped we'd sign, last winter)

1.80 Skubal

2.08 J Gray

2.16 R Olson

2.22 some guy formerly named Freakin'

 

[Old Red]

Only Seth Lugo has more IP and a lower ERA than Houck.

 

0.1 IP more

 

1.79 ERA to 1.94

 

Where are the posters who laughed at the idea of signing him?

 

(I'm sure I'll hear from them, if he falls off a cliff.)

 

You always get giddy, and go out looking for other posters, who usually end up finding you in the end when all is said, and done.🤫

[Maxbialystock]

Only Seth Lugo has more IP and a lower ERA than Houck.

 

0.1 IP more

 

1.79 ERA to 1.94

 

Where are the posters who laughed at the idea of signing him?

 

(I'm sure I'll hear from them, if he falls off a cliff.)

 

I'm sure I didn't laugh, but as recently as last season I still believed he couldn't go through a lineup 3 times--at least, until he did it several times.

 

He does not have great heat or a fantastic curve, but he does have a good assortment of pitches and good command. Right now he's definitely headed for the AS Game.

[Hugh2]

Moves this team should take in the next week.

 

Option Grissom. I love his potential, but he obviously needs time in the minors. It's very reasonable to assume a lack of spring training has hurt him and his timing is completley off, he's very young and perhaps after a month or two will be ready for the show again. He very well can work these things out at the big league level, but why not burn the option and put the team in a position to win now.

 

DFA: Chase Anderson, he's your low leverage multi inning guy, give the role to Mata who has to be on the big leauge club or will be lost. If all else fails Winckowski is waiting in the wings and a better option than both those guys.

DFA: Dominic Smith, call up Kavadas. I don't think Kavadas has a long term future here. He's pretty much a bat first platoon first baseman, and I think he could fit that role much better than Smith is right now. Let him Platoon with Cooper at 1B until Casas is back.

 

Recall Valdez, let him spell Hamilton at 2nd and DH.

[Hugh2]

Up and down the system and across baseball relief pitchers get TJS all the time, you don't hear about it as much because starting pitchers are more of a known commodity. There's every reason to believe that Whitlock would be just as injury prone in a full time reliever role. He has all the hallmarks of a starting pitcher and was his entire career before his first TJS, in todays age it's almost assumed every pitcher will have TJS at some point so it's pretty senseless to blame the sox for trying to develop him as a starter.

 

With that said, I'm very open to him being moved to a bullpen, who knows.....perhaps he can stay healthier in that role. Everyone is built different.

[Old Red]

Moves this team should take in the next week.

 

Option Grissom. I love his potential, but he obviously needs time in the minors. It's very reasonable to assume a lack of spring training has hurt him and his timing is completley off, he's very young and perhaps after a month or two will be ready for the show again. He very well can work these things out at the big league level, but why not burn the option and put the team in a position to win now.

 

DFA: Chase Anderson, he's your low leverage multi inning guy, give the role to Mata who has to be on the big leauge club or will be lost. If all else fails Winckowski is waiting in the wings and a better option than both those guys.

DFA: Dominic Smith, call up Kavadas. I don't think Kavadas has a long term future here. He's pretty much a bat first platoon first baseman, and I think he could fit that role much better than Smith is right now. Let him Platoon with Cooper at 1B until Casas is back.

 

Recall Valdez, let him spell Hamilton at 2nd and DH.

 

I don’t know if Grissom will be sent down, or not, and it may help him.

All this Kavadas talk I believe is for naught, and he has two chances of coming up, which are slim, and none. Smith has shored up the D at 1B, and has chipped in with a few hits here, and there. If the KMan was going to be brought up he’d have been there already.

[cp176]

Looks great, now.

 

Can I ask, did you hear one single poster advocating an extension of Sale, before the trade?

 

Hell, we were still hearing about how bad his last extension from back in 2019.

 

I don't remember advocating for anything, but I was happy for sure that he was extended.

[Hugh2]

I don’t know if Grissom will be sent down, or not, and it may help him.

All this Kavadas talk I believe is for naught, and he has two chances of coming up, which are slim, and none. Smith has shored up the D at 1B, and has chipped in with a few hits here, and there. If the KMan was going to be brought up he’d have been there already.

 

Domimic Smith .189/.232/.245 OPS: .477 That's below below average, and his defense is fringe average at best.

 

54 of his 56 plate apparences are against RHP, maybe because he's a lifetime .695 OPS vs. LHP. that .477 OPS is against all right handers and that's what he's supposed to be doing...HITTING RIGHT HANDERS!!!!!

 

Kavadas OPS VS RHP 2024: 1.155

2023: .945

2022: 1.146

 

Kavadas is going to give more than what Smith does.

 

Chipped in with a few hits here and there lol.

[jad]

I believe it is a safe rule that any post that begins "If you recall, I was the one who ..." or "Where are all of you who in 20xx said ..." or any of many variants, can be quickly answered "Strange as it may sound, I am much less well-versed in our literary histories on sports boards than you may think."

[Bellhorn04]

I bet Sale gets injured halfway through the season and this discussion becomes a non-issue.

 

A Cap'n Obvious comeback unworthy of a man of your considerable baseball acumen.

[notin]

Moves this team should take in the next week.

 

Option Grissom. I love his potential, but he obviously needs time in the minors. It's very reasonable to assume a lack of spring training has hurt him and his timing is completley off, he's very young and perhaps after a month or two will be ready for the show again. He very well can work these things out at the big league level, but why not burn the option and put the team in a position to win now.

 

DFA: Chase Anderson, he's your low leverage multi inning guy, give the role to Mata who has to be on the big leauge club or will be lost. If all else fails Winckowski is waiting in the wings and a better option than both those guys.

DFA: Dominic Smith, call up Kavadas. I don't think Kavadas has a long term future here. He's pretty much a bat first platoon first baseman, and I think he could fit that role much better than Smith is right now. Let him Platoon with Cooper at 1B until Casas is back.

 

Recall Valdez, let him spell Hamilton at 2nd and DH.

 

So Grissom gets optioned for being unlucky?

 

Grissom is third on the Sox in line drive rate (26.8%) yet has a BABIP of .171. That’s crazy bad luck.

 

He also has the third lowest strikeout rate for players with 30 PA or more. Not so sure optioning him is the right idea…

[mvp 78]

Whitlock was not a good closer in 2021, period. His strength was long relief.

 

When did he function as the closer in 21?

[Old Red]

Domimic Smith .189/.232/.245 OPS: .477 That's below below average, and his defense is fringe average at best.

 

54 of his 56 plate apparences are against RHP, maybe because he's a lifetime .695 OPS vs. LHP. that .477 OPS is against all right handers and that's what he's supposed to be doing...HITTING RIGHT HANDERS!!!!!

 

Kavadas OPS VS RHP 2024: 1.155

2023: .945

2022: 1.146

 

Kavadas is going to give more than what Smith does.

 

Chipped in with a few hits here and there lol.

 

Like I said slim, and none.🙈🤭

[Bellhorn04]

So Grissom gets optioned for being unlucky?

 

Grissom is third on the Sox in line drive rate (26.8%) yet has a BABIP of .171. That’s crazy bad luck.

 

He also has the third lowest strikeout rate for players with 30 PA or more. Not so sure optioning him is the right idea…

 

But he also only has one walk. His K/BB ratio is 11 to 1.

 

And he apparently cannot launch the ball into the air so he's not capable of taking the fielders out of the equation.

 

That aside, the real news is that Hamilton is suddenly looking like a legit option at 2B...

[Old Red]

So Grissom gets optioned for being unlucky?

 

Grissom is third on the Sox in line drive rate (26.8%) yet has a BABIP of .171. That’s crazy bad luck.

 

He also has the third lowest strikeout rate for players with 30 PA or more. Not so sure optioning him is the right idea…

 

Unlucky? You get two more NN for that one.

[Old Red]

But he also only has one walk. His K/BB ratio is 11 to 1.

 

And he apparently cannot launch the ball into the air so he's not capable of taking the fielders out of the equation.

 

That aside, the real news is that Hamilton is suddenly looking like a legit option at 2B...

 

Right now the Ham Man is the better player.

[mvp 78]

I'm sure I didn't laugh, but as recently as last season I still believed he couldn't go through a lineup 3 times--at least, until he did it several times.

 

He does not have great heat or a fantastic curve, but he does have a good assortment of pitches and good command. Right now he's definitely headed for the AS Game.

 

Nobody laughed at signing Lugo. Most people just look at his history and don't know if he'll hold up over the long haul with a starter's workload. Plus, 1.79 ERA and 3.56 xFIP. Expect some regression. He's 34 and signed a 3 year deal with no track record of starting.

[mvp 78]

Moves this team should take in the next week.

 

Option Grissom. I love his potential, but he obviously needs time in the minors. It's very reasonable to assume a lack of spring training has hurt him and his timing is completley off, he's very young and perhaps after a month or two will be ready for the show again. He very well can work these things out at the big league level, but why not burn the option and put the team in a position to win now.

 

DFA: Chase Anderson, he's your low leverage multi inning guy, give the role to Mata who has to be on the big leauge club or will be lost. If all else fails Winckowski is waiting in the wings and a better option than both those guys.

DFA: Dominic Smith, call up Kavadas. I don't think Kavadas has a long term future here. He's pretty much a bat first platoon first baseman, and I think he could fit that role much better than Smith is right now. Let him Platoon with Cooper at 1B until Casas is back.

 

Recall Valdez, let him spell Hamilton at 2nd and DH.

 

Mata has given up 3 runs in 4 innings in the FCL and Salem.

 

Callup Valdez and Kavadas both LHB platoon DHs?

[moonslav59]

I don't remember advocating for anything, but I was happy for sure that he was extended.

 

I was one of the few that was, too- back in 2019.

 

I'm talking about the last 2-3 years: did a single poster ever suggest we extend Sale further?

 

Most were counting the days until his contract expired, while hoping against hope, he;d regain his former glory days. Some were saying he should be our next closer. I don't recall anywhere near this much Sale love in several years.

 

Even when he put together a nice stretch of starts, last year, nobody I remember was saying they expected this for 2024.

Edited May 21, 2024 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Domimic Smith .189/.232/.245 OPS: .477 That's below below average, and his defense is fringe average at best.

 

54 of his 56 plate apparences are against RHP, maybe because he's a lifetime .695 OPS vs. LHP. that .477 OPS is against all right handers and that's what he's supposed to be doing...HITTING RIGHT HANDERS!!!!!

 

Kavadas OPS VS RHP 2024: 1.155

2023: .945

2022: 1.146

 

Kavadas is going to give more than what Smith does.

 

Chipped in with a few hits here and there lol.

 

Even if he doesn't, he is likely to be about the same as Smith. If he's worse, then just go out an get the next Smith on the cheap.