A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They have had a few players not known for D, but not at C, 2B and CF. except maybe Yunel Escobar (SS: -19 DRS and -4.4 UZR/150)

 

Their biggest negative DRS from 2013-2022

-28 Yandy Diaz 3B

-20 Brad Miller SS

-19 Yunel Escobar SS

-12 Beckham SS

-12 Meadows RF

-10 As. Cabrera SS

-10 Wilk Myers RF

-9 L Morrison 1B

-8 W Ramos C

 

Same time frame, we have 11 players at -9 or more:

-50 Bogey SS

-44 Devers 3B

-21 Nunez 2B

-19 Swihart C

-15 Pablito 3B

-14 Duran CF

-14 HRam LF

-13 Plawecki C

-13 Dalbec 1B

-9 JD RF

 

Thanks, but other than Yandy, none were/are key guys for Tampa's annual playoff contenders... Meadows for a few years...

 

Not trying to make you do more research, but it'd be interesting to see recent lists of positive Rays vs. Red Sox...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They have had a few players not known for D, but not at C, 2B and CF. except maybe Yunel Escobar (SS: -19 DRS and -4.4 UZR/150)

 

Their biggest negative DRS from 2013-2022

-28 Yandy Diaz 3B

-20 Brad Miller SS

-19 Yunel Escobar SS

-12 Beckham SS

-12 Meadows RF

-10 As. Cabrera SS

-10 Wilk Myers RF

-9 L Morrison 1B

-8 W Ramos C

 

Same time frame, we have 11 players at -9 or more:

-50 Bogey SS

-44 Devers 3B

-21 Nunez 2B

-19 Swihart C

-15 Pablito 3B

-14 Duran CF

-14 HRam LF

-13 Plawecki C

-13 Dalbec 1B

-9 JD RF

 

Also notice if a Rays guy doesn't do the job with the leather, they don't keep him around very long.

 

Maybe that was Bloom's thinking about Renfroe...

[Old Red]

Can't say I'm disappointed after a tough stretch of playing first-place or contending teams. After getting swept out of the Trop, to go 8-5 vs. the Angels, Twins, Brewers and O's, the Sox have staved off elimination for another month.

 

No time to wallow in the mire.

 

I guess it depends how you look at it. Playing 500 ball is better than having a losing record, but I think all of MLB is really watered down this year. Yes Tampa is off to a great start, but I don’t think they are any super team. Pittsburg has a good record too, and i wouldn’t call them all that good, so I don’t think at this point being 500 is any big accomplishment, or mean as much as it would in other years.

[Nick]

I also read Rays use young starters in the pen early in their major league careers. They wait for their turn.

 

Haven't we done this with Whitlock and Houck? Why not Bello? Now all of the sudden, it's in Bello's best interest to pitch in the minors?

 

It's getting to the point Bloom and Cora's words doesn't mean anything. Didn't Cora say there's no way Paxton would not be a starter? Things that make you go huh.

[moonslav59]

Also notice if a Rays guy doesn't do the job with the leather, they don't keep him around very long.

 

Maybe that was Bloom's thinking about Renfroe...

 

They don't keep a lot of players around, too long, but the ones they do, like Kiermaier are good on D.

 

They have a great knack for trading away good players right before a steep decline.

[mvp 78]

I also read Rays use young starters in the pen early in their major league careers. They wait for their turn.

 

Haven't we done this with Whitlock and Houck? Why not Bello? Now all of the sudden, it's in Bello's best interest to pitch in the minors?

 

It's getting to the point Bloom and Cora's words doesn't mean anything. Didn't Cora say there's no way Paxton would not be a starter? Things that make you go huh.

 

I don't remember them doing this with Blake Snell, Chris Archer, McClanahan or Glasnow and they certainly aren't doing that right now with Taj Bradley.

 

Aside from David Price, which other arms did they do that with?

[notin]

Good point; the Rays are known for solid defense as a unit -- which is important for a team that prides itself on churning out endless pitching depth. If they're the heads on that coin, then Bloom's Red Sox are definitely tails.

 

As for whether good gloves are always available, just shake the ole baseball tree... 10 gloves fall out for every one bat.

 

Not even remotely true. AAA always has more than its share of bats that can’t use a glove. Jordan Walker just became another one, at least for now.

 

Fielding a line-up of fundamental professionals shouldn't be that costly, and it's the fastest way back to respectability. Maybe Bloom ignores it because according to him, rebuilding is unacceptable in the Nation.

 

Isn’t it?

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom's job was to rebuild and compete at the same time. I think what's unacceptable would be another last place finish-regardless of whether we're the best last-place team or not..

[Bellhorn04]

Would Jesus Aguilar count? That's a dime a dozen type guy.

 

So that's one. And he cost $3 million and was coming off a lousy season.

[moonslav59]

So that's one. And he cost $3 million and was coming off a lousy season.

 

How about a guy who averages this over 650 PAs:

 

.232 31 94 (.752 OPS) at minimum salary?

 

(Hint: he's on our team.)

[Old Red]

Bloom's job was to rebuild and compete at the same time. I think what's unacceptable would be another last place finish-regardless of whether we're the best last-place team or not..

 

Agree, and anything less than a winning team with a postseason berth would be another failure, and heads should roll from top to bottom. The Red Sox have been in the same division for many many years now, and saying they are in the toughest Div should not be an excuse.

[Nick]

I don't remember them doing this with Blake Snell, Chris Archer, McClanahan or Glasnow and they certainly aren't doing that right now with Taj Bradley.

 

Aside from David Price, which other arms did they do that with?

 

As usual, I have no facts to back it up. I could have sworn I heard it once on a Ray's broadcast.

[Nick]

Agree, and anything less than a winning team with a postseason berth would be another failure, and heads should roll from top to bottom. The Red Sox have been in the same division for many many years now, and saying they are in the toughest Div should not be an excuse.

 

I'm leaning more and more that way.

[Hugh2]

I also read Rays use young starters in the pen early in their major league careers. They wait for their turn.

 

Haven't we done this with Whitlock and Houck? Why not Bello? Now all of the sudden, it's in Bello's best interest to pitch in the minors?

 

It's getting to the point Bloom and Cora's words doesn't mean anything. Didn't Cora say there's no way Paxton would not be a starter? Things that make you go huh.

 

That usually happens when there’s not a spot in the rotation.

 

You see, in organizations that have not been devoid from developing any talent in decades sometimes they actually accumulate talent.

 

I think there’s a permutation of the future that has Bello in the pen this season. But they obviously view him as a starter and want him staying stretched out. That’s a good thing, not that I’d complain keeping him in Boston in the pen. But sometimes this is the life of a young rookie with options.

[moonslav59]

The Sox currently have the 9th best record in the AL at 13-13.

 

We are 0.5 GB #8 LAA.

 

We are 1.5 GB #5 HOU/MN/NYY and a WC berth.

 

We are 3.5 GB #4 TEX.

 

We are 4 GB from the 2nd best record in the AL (BAL.)

 

To put this in perspective, had we just beaten the O's, yesterday, we'd 8th, a half game out of the WC slot and just 2 GB BAL and 2nd place in the ALE.

 

It's still very early, but it really looks like we have our heart set on a .500 season.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Not even remotely true. AAA always has more than its share of bats that can’t use a glove. Jordan Walker just became another one, at least for now.

 

 

What is true about the adage "shake a baseball tree, and 10 gloves fall out for every one bat"...

 

1. it's an old saying that I didn't invent;

 

2. if a ballplayer can hit -- "the hardest skill in sports" (another adage) -- some team will find a spot for him on a roster

 

So what's more likely in the case of Enmanuel Valdez being tried at virtually every defensive position on the diamond except pitcher in his pro career: clubs see his potential as a versatile utility man... or dude can swing the lumber?

[Nick]

The Sox currently have the 9th best record in the AL at 13-13.

 

We are 0.5 GB #8 LAA.

 

We are 1.5 GB #5 HOU/MN/NYY and a WC berth.

 

We are 3.5 GB #4 TEX.

 

We are 4 GB from the 2nd best record in the AL (BAL.)

 

To put this in perspective, had we just beaten the O's, yesterday, we'd 8th, a half game out of the WC slot and just 2 GB BAL and 2nd place in the ALE.

 

It's still very early, but it really looks like we have our heart set on a .500 season.

 

 

Especially true if we can't improve on last year's record vs AL East.

[Bellhorn04]

How about a guy who averages this over 650 PAs:

 

.232 31 94 (.752 OPS) at minimum salary?

 

(Hint: he's on our team.)

 

Hint : in 2022 your guy had a .652 OPS and an 80 OPS+, and as of now no one in their right mind would consider him a good major league hitter.

 

Any others?

[Hugh2]

What is true about the adage "shake a baseball tree, and 10 gloves fall out for every one bat"...

 

1. it's an old saying that I didn't invent;

 

2. if a ballplayer can hit -- "the hardest skill in sports" (another adage) -- some team will find a spot for him on a roster

 

So what's more likely in the case of Enmanuel Valdez being tried at virtually every defensive position on the diamond except pitcher in his pro career: clubs see his potential as a versatile utility man... or dude can swing the lumber?

 

positional versatility also increases a guys value as a bench player. When you're not good enough to field a position on the regular but you have a bat, it's easier to justify your position when you can fill in multiple rolls. The thing with his bat though is he might just be a platoon guy. A multi-position platoon bat that has below-average defense isn't exactly a high-demand commodity. It would be nice to see Valdez take a step forward on at least one side of the ball. Whether that is to help Boston in Boston or in a trade.

[notin]

What is true about the adage "shake a baseball tree, and 10 gloves fall out for every one bat"...

 

1. it's an old saying that I didn't invent;

 

2. if a ballplayer can hit -- "the hardest skill in sports" (another adage) -- some team will find a spot for him on a roster

 

So what's more likely in the case of Enmanuel Valdez being tried at virtually every defensive position on the diamond except pitcher in his pro career: clubs see his potential as a versatile utility man... or dude can swing the lumber?

 

 

That’s a good example.

 

The most likely outcome for Enmanuel Valdez is a brief MLB career cut short by a lack of defensive position. Maybe he can catch on as a DH with Oakland or Pittsburgh or some other team where the most important baseball skill is the ability to cash league minimum paychecks and stick around a bit longer.

 

As insanely tough as hitting is, it only gets you so far. Nowadays it seems like the ability to hit could be compared to be physically attractive - it gets attention and gets you in the door. But if you want to stay there better be more going on…

[Bellhorn04]

That’s a good example.

 

The most likely outcome for Enmanuel Valdez is a brief MLB career cut short by a lack of defensive position. Maybe he can catch on as a DH with Oakland or Pittsburgh or some other team where the most important baseball skill is the ability to cash league minimum paychecks and stick around a bit longer.

 

As insanely tough as hitting is, it only gets you so far. Nowadays it seems like the ability to hit could be compared to be physically attractive - it gets attention and gets you in the door. But if you want to stay there better be more going on…

 

DH's are still getting paid.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

DH's are still getting paid.

 

Like any hitter, Valdez needs to get regular ABs to learn pitchers, adjust to their book on him, and get in a groove. He might benefit as a DH full-time somewhere on a club not pretending every year to be a contender.

 

The Red Sox invested in Turner to be their DH, and are otherwise too left-handed already. Bad starting pitching can't afford sub-par defense on the diamond. But like others have posted, why doesn't Bloom see the value of good, available, affordable glovemen for any of his rosters?

[moonslav59]

Especially true if we can't improve on last year's record vs AL East.

 

We play them way less, this year, so in theory, that should help.

[moonslav59]

Hint : in 2022 your guy had a .652 OPS and an 80 OPS+, and as of now no one in their right mind would consider him a good major league hitter.

 

Any others?

 

Every year, decent hitting 1Bmen are traded for peanuts- just not in April.

 

What did we get for Moreland? (I forgot, too.)

 

Who is available, right now? Has Sano signed, yet?

[Old Red]

Like any hitter, Valdez needs to get regular ABs to learn pitchers, adjust to their book on him, and get in a groove. He might benefit as a DH full-time somewhere on a club not pretending every year to be a contender.

 

The Red Sox invested in Turner to be their DH, and are otherwise too left-handed already. Bad starting pitching can't afford sub-par defense on the diamond. But like others have posted, why doesn't Bloom see the value of good, available, affordable glovemen for any of his rosters?

 

He did see the value of a good glove man last year when he went out, and got JBJ even if it cost a little money. Of course his platoon partner started out as Arroyo though. Sub par D up the middle is never a good thing, and like the Red Sox are trying to do now with Kike at SS. Arroyo is adequate at 2B, but can’t hit at least so far, and Valdez is an ERROR waiting to happen.

[notin]

DH's are still getting paid.

 

In theory, you have to REALLY HIT to be a DH. In Oakland and Pitt and KC, you just need to be willing to work cheap…

[Bellhorn04]

Every year, decent hitting 1Bmen are traded for peanuts- just not in April.

 

What did we get for Moreland? (I forgot, too.)

 

Who is available, right now? Has Sano signed, yet?

 

Moreland was traded for Rosario and Potts.

 

As to who's available, that's exactly my question to those who say they can be had for a dime a dozen.

[notin]

Every year, decent hitting 1Bmen are traded for peanuts- just not in April.

 

What did we get for Moreland? (I forgot, too.)

 

Who is available, right now? Has Sano signed, yet?

 

Sano is available but he also had a .345 OPS in limited action last year and has a 102 OPS+ over the last 3 years. He peaks out as league average at this point.

 

Casas still has less than 200 PA in his career. Far too early to simply give up and replace him with mediocrity…

[moonslav59]

Moreland was traded for Rosario and Potts.

 

As to who's available, that's exactly my question to those who say they can be had for a dime a dozen.

 

It was meant to be a 24/7/365 point being made. This time of year, hardly anyone is "available." We named some that could have been signed over the winter. We can go back and look at past winters and summer trade deadline deals. 1B has to be the easiest position to fill. "Dimes" are now millions, but some can be acquired for way less than other positions.

 

The Padres paid us to take Hosmer, last summer.

 

The compensation for Steve Pearce was not thought to be all that much, but Espinal proved to be worth 2 dimes.

[moonslav59]

Sano is available but he also had a .345 OPS in limited action last year and has a 102 OPS+ over the last 3 years. He peaks out as league average at this point.

 

Casas still has less than 200 PA in his career. Far too early to simply give up and replace him with mediocrity…

 

Many GM do not look at just the most recent numbers, but in his case, it looks like they are.

 

BTW, the Sano sample size you mentioned is about a third of the one you brought up on Casas.