A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Hugh2]

The Dodgers cut payroll this year but not enough to re-set.

 

The Mets can't re-set next year even if they wanted to.

 

The Yankees and others may be in that position too.

 

We've entered a new phase where the real big spenders have stopped being hung up on re-setting.

 

Actually, the Dodgers did cut payroll enough to reset this year. They were blindsided by Trevor Bauer being reinstated. That money back on their books put them over the limit for this year. If that had not happened, they would be under the cap this year.

[mvp 78]

"They HAVE TO reset because they went over last season" by stepping on an upside rake like a cartoon character and hitting themselves and buffoonishly costing themselves draft capital in a throwaway season...

 

I'm supposed to give them credit for going over last year now? No f***ing way...

[Bellhorn04]

Actually, the Dodgers did cut payroll enough to reset this year. They were blindsided by Trevor Bauer being reinstated. That money back on their books put them over the limit for this year. If that had not happened, they would be under the cap this year.

 

They knew his reinstatement was a possibility.

[Hugh2]

"They HAVE TO reset because they went over last season" by stepping on an upside rake like a cartoon character and hitting themselves and buffoonishly costing themselves draft capital in a throwaway season...

 

I'm supposed to give them credit for going over last year now? No f***ing way...

 

I'ts not giving them credit. It's not a popularity contest. It's math. You can't change the fact that the Sox went over last year. If you look at the long-term picture over the last 5 seasons the Sox remain one of baseballs biggest spenders.

 

Yes or no. Do you actually think the Sox are going to constantly turn into a middling team 14th in payroll every year????

[Maxbialystock]

I’m still trying to figure out who the Red Sox no names are.

 

Everyone not named Devers. Mookie and Bogey have names, but with other teams.

 

Yoshida has a name in Japan and a pretty good contract, but hasn't proven himself yet. Sale has a huge name, but from 4 years ago and more. Kluber too.

[Hugh2]

The Dodgers cut payroll this year but not enough to re-set.

 

The Mets can't re-set next year even if they wanted to.

 

The Yankees and others may be in that position too.

 

We've entered a new phase where the real big spenders have stopped being hung up on re-setting.

 

I believe I made a bet with you that the Mets would reset. THey will not, they'd have to trade to do so. I don't think they plan on it either. I will lose that bet.

 

But as of right now, it seems that the other teams not named NYM plan on resetting every 2-3 years. That's the new mold. Except for LAD who got screwed last year. Maybe that takes them out of the running for Ohtani?

[moonslav59]

Everyone not named Devers. Mookie and Bogey have names, but with other teams.

 

Yoshida has a name in Japan and a pretty good contract, but hasn't proven himself yet. Sale has a huge name, but from 4 years ago and more. Kluber too.

 

Jansen has been the most consistently good closer since Mo.

 

Story has a name in Colorado.

 

Turner in LA... oh, maybe that's the other Turner.

 

Duvall led the league in RBIs, 2 years ago, but apparently RBIs matter when it's Renfroe, only.

[mvp 78]

I'ts not giving them credit. It's not a popularity contest. It's math. You can't change the fact that the Sox went over last year. If you look at the long-term picture over the last 5 seasons the Sox remain one of baseballs biggest spenders.

 

Yes or no. Do you actually think the Sox are going to constantly turn into a middling team 14th in payroll every year????

 

Every year? No. More often than not? Yes.

[Maxbialystock]

I'ts not giving them credit. It's not a popularity contest. It's math. You can't change the fact that the Sox went over last year. If you look at the long-term picture over the last 5 seasons the Sox remain one of baseballs biggest spenders.

 

Yes or no. Do you actually think the Sox are going to constantly turn into a middling team 14th in payroll every year????

 

That's the question, isn't it? You believe--devoutly, it seems--that the Sox will always want to spend, if only because John Henry (and the Sox income) can afford it.

 

But my suspicion is that maybe John Henry hired Chaim Bloom to go a different way. Thus the departures of Price, Betts, Bogaerts, Eovaldi, Kimbrel, et al.

 

But, frankly, I don't know which way the Sox are going.

[Maxbialystock]

Jansen has been the most consistently good closer since Mo.

 

Story has a name in Colorado.

 

Turner in LA... oh, maybe that's the other Turner.

 

Duvall led the league in RBIs, 2 years ago, but apparently RBIs matter when it's Renfroe, only.

 

Good point on Duvall. As for Story, I believe his name in Boston is Mudd.

[Hugh2]

They knew his reinstatement was a possibility.

 

Of course, yet they still tried to sneak under. Even LAD have limits.

 

The Mets, apparently do not.

[Hugh2]

Every year? No. More often than not? Yes.

 

When is the last time they ranked out of the top 10 two years in a row?

 

Is there precedent for this in the John Henry era?

[Hugh2]

That's the question, isn't it? You believe--devoutly, it seems--that the Sox will always want to spend, if only because John Henry (and the Sox income) can afford it.

 

But my suspicion is that maybe John Henry hired Chaim Bloom to go a different way. Thus the departures of Price, Betts, Bogaerts, Eovaldi, Kimbrel, et al.

 

But, frankly, I don't know which way the Sox are going.

 

Listen, I’m not going to defend all the moves the Sox have made nor defend them. But it’s not like they haven’t been transparent to their strategy. Their strategy just hasn’t paid off yet.

 

They want sustained success, cut payroll, reset, add payroll on shorter term deals so you have the ability to reset every so often. And when the farm starts trickling up lock guys up and go big.

 

They haven’t got to the end yet, but they just exceeded the payroll last year!!! 3 years after Bloom was supposedly brought in to cut payroll and he’s actually adding payroll to go over the luxury tax limit two years in a row.

 

It’s not if they spend money. It’s how they spend their money.

[moonslav59]

When is the last time they ranked out of the top 10 two years in a row?

 

Is there precedent for this in the John Henry era?

 

With the way we spent, this winter, and with the re-set likely, I doubt we go 2 straight, unless 10 other teams go nutty.

 

According to Steve the Ump, the Sox have been...

3rd 2020 (although we slashed the budget)

3rd 2021 (although we still did not replace all the money off the books from '20- '21)

6th 2022 (despite the Story signings)

 

13th 2023

 

[Hugh2]

With the way we spent, this winter, and with the re-set likely, I doubt we go 2 straight, unless 10 other teams go nutty.

 

According to Steve the Ump, the Sox have been...

3rd 2020 (although we slashed the budget)

3rd 2021 (although we still did not replace all the money off the books from '20- '21)

6th 2022 (despite the Story signings)

 

13th 2023

 

 

Also, the Sox are 12th, not 14th.

 

If you go by the only number that matters.

[moonslav59]

Listen, I’m not going to defend all the moves the Sox have made nor defend them. But it’s not like they haven’t been transparent to their strategy. Their strategy just hasn’t paid off yet.

 

They want sustained success, cut payroll, reset, add payroll on shorter term deals so you have the ability to reset every so often. And when the farm starts trickling up lock guys up and go big.

 

They haven’t got to the end yet, but they just exceeded the payroll last year!!! 3 years after Bloom was supposedly brought in to cut payroll and he’s actually adding payroll to go over the luxury tax limit two years in a row.

 

It’s not if they spend money. It’s how they spend their money.

 

How long should it take a team to reach sustained winning after going from the 2017 Devers call up to today with just Houck being a major help? One can't expect a farm to be contributing in just 3 years, especially when drafting HS players, every year.

 

Add to that, the first 2 years of budget cuts and limits.

 

I agree, they have not been "transparent" about this being a rebuild or a 4-5 year plan, but it seems obvious it has been and maybe still is, this year. I do think they felt we'd be good enough to compete for the playoffs in 2022 and 2023, but they know these were/are not ring teams. We did/do, too.

 

If you want to count 2020 as a year, 2024 will be year 5. The prospects added in 2020: Yorke and Jordan and 2021: Mayer may not be impact players by then. Bleis (2021) is too far away. We have some DD guys looking to help, and the farm outlook does look better than just Houck and Dalbec over 5 years, but I'm not sure 2024 is looking like "the year," either.

 

I hate thinking like this.

[moonslav59]

Also, the Sox are 12th, not 14th.

 

If you go by the only number that matters.

 

Different sites range from 12th to 14th, from what I've found.

[Hugh2]

Different sites range from 12th to 14th, from what I've found.

 

They’re higher on luxury tax, than dollars committed

[moonslav59]

They’re higher on luxury tax, than dollars committed

 

Yes. With bonuses and options, it's hard to know exactly what the numbers are, and different sites have differing actual and luxury numbers.

[sk7326]

Listen, I’m not going to defend all the moves the Sox have made nor defend them. But it’s not like they haven’t been transparent to their strategy. Their strategy just hasn’t paid off yet.

 

They want sustained success, cut payroll, reset, add payroll on shorter term deals so you have the ability to reset every so often. And when the farm starts trickling up lock guys up and go big.

 

They haven’t got to the end yet, but they just exceeded the payroll last year!!! 3 years after Bloom was supposedly brought in to cut payroll and he’s actually adding payroll to go over the luxury tax limit two years in a row.

 

It’s not if they spend money. It’s how they spend their money.

 

I do think they want this - but underlying it has to be being able to put out a playoff caliber team every year. With that payroll there is no excuse. Given the revenue situation, fans are totally reasonable wanting to reach for the Dodgers rainbow.

[moonslav59]

Updated Sox OPS

1.544 Duvall (still 2nd in HRs and 3rd in RBI!)

1.062 Duran (.417 OBP)

.890 Devers (.598 SLG)

.852 McGuire (.390 OBP)

.847 Dugo (steady)

.807 Yoshida (10 BB/ 9 K & .376 OBP)

.767 Turner (.376 OBP)

.679 Kike (Heating up)

.663 Ref (.353 OBP)

.605 Casas (needs to step it up)

.549 Wong (doing it on D)

.515 Chang (playing good D at SS)

.474 Arroyo (needs to snap out of this funk)

[Nick]

Is it time to say good bye to Ort?

[moonslav59]

Is it time to say good bye to Ort?

 

That time was long ago, but Bloom has to finally think the same way.

 

AbOrt this mission!

[moonslav59]

Iggy signs with the team that has 13 SSs- the Padres.

[S5Dewey]

Is it time to say good bye to Ort?

 

No, that was yesterday...or a week ago...or a month ago.

 

Is there any GOOD reason why the Sox are holding onto Ort?

[notin]

No, that was yesterday...or a week ago...or a month ago.

 

Is there any GOOD reason why the Sox are holding onto Ort?

 

Ort claims to have kidnapped a family of wombats, and is holding them in a cage on the side of a cliff. He has stated repeated that if he gets released or even demoted, those wombats go over the edge. Ort even wears number 61 to remind the Sox staff how high that cliff is.

 

So sure, the Sox could demote him. Or release him. But they’d be killing those wombats. Is that what people want? Wombat corpses strewn all up and down a 61 foot cliff?!? That’s just sick!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ort claims to have kidnapped a family of wombats, and is holding them in a cage on the side of a cliff. He has stated repeated that if he gets released or even demoted, those wombats go over the edge. Ort even wears number 61 to remind the Sox staff how high that cliff is.

 

So sure, the Sox could demote him. Or release him. But they’d be killing those wombats. Is that what people want? Wombat corpses strewn all up and down a 61 foot cliff?!? That’s just sick!

 

Many posters actually wish Ort would miss a few wombats...

[notin]

Many posters actually wish Ort would miss a few wombats...

 

Ort never misses bats of any type, be it vampire, fruit, or wom…

[moonslav59]

We are 7-5 in games Ort has pitched. (Take note, Bell.)

 

We are 2-3 in games he has allowed a run.

 

Of the 3 losses, only one would (could) have been won had he not allowed a run- game 1 vs BAL.

 

That being said, we are tempting fate everytime we bring him in.

 

1.805 WHIP

 

.960 OPS Against is MVP material- for a batter!

[mvp 78]

Is it time to say good bye to Ort?

 

He's the garbage time guy, but he needs to be at least competent enough to not force your closer to come in when you have more than a 5 run lead. Ort has options and will be the first sent to WOO once the next relief guy gets healthy.