A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[moonslav59]

This has been the best ownership in Red Sox history. But it does seem like the last decade has been more in spite of ownership than because of.

 

There will always be whiners in the fan base - and Championship or Bust is a foolhardy mentality particularly in baseball fandom. But the Red Sox are one of the big kids on the block, and they charge big boy prices to the fans - and fans are totally justified in expecting the franchise to act like one of the big kids.

 

I have to think the ring in 2018 had something to do with JH's willingness to allow DD to go "all in," especially okaying the Price sand JD signings, plus lesser deals like Porcello, the Bogey extension and others.

[sk7326]

I have to think the ring in 2018 had something to do with JH's willingness to allow DD to go "all in," especially okaying the Price sand JD signings, plus lesser deals like Porcello, the Bogey extension and others.

 

Indeed - and then he fired the GM for doing it and started whining about the payroll inside of a season.

Edited September 22, 2023 by sk7326

[jad]

This has been the best ownership in Red Sox history. But it does seem like the last decade has been more in spite of ownership than because of.

There will always be whiners in the fan base - and Championship or Bust is a foolhardy mentality particularly in baseball fandom. But the Red Sox are one of the big kids on the block, and they charge big boy prices to the fans - and fans are totally justified in expecting the franchise to act like one of the big kids.

 

This is the best ownership in history? But "this" [ownership? ownership success?] has been in spite of ownership???? Say what?

[mvp 78]

My guess is he'll be judged much the same as Ben is. Some will give him credit, others will continue to stress the last-place finishes, call him Coffee Boy or something similarly insulting...

 

Some of this stuff is pretty predictable.

 

With the Ben regime, he didn't trade from the minor league talent, but I don't think they really added much to the minor league either. He lucked into Benintendi, but the remainder of those drafts were pretty bleak overall. If he didn't win in 2013, he is definitely worse than Chaim IMO. However, he DID win in 2013 so he gets a nice C-. Chaim gets a D+.

[mvp 78]

After reading what moon wrote, I'm fine if anyone wants to grade Bloom lower than a D+.

 

I don't think you can rationally argue him as having a B- tenure.

[sk7326]

This is the best ownership in history? But "this" [ownership? ownership success?] has been in spite of ownership???? Say what?

 

Yes. It is clearly the best ownership in franchise history. It has also not been perfect and done some dubious baseball things the last decade. And despite some dubious process, the team won a couple of titles anyway. All of those things can exist at once.

[sk7326]

After reading what moon wrote, I'm fine if anyone wants to grade Bloom lower than a D+.

 

I don't think you can rationally argue him as having a B- tenure.

 

I had it as a B- given what ownership asked him to do .. but a lower grade is fine. Of the Sox GMs over this time, he started with the emptiest hand. But there was no excuse for this team not contending the last two seasons (by any definition of contending) and he has to own that, especially with how obvious the remedy was.

[Dipre]

This year's team probably wins 90+ with another durable starter and anyone but Kike at SS. The rotation's lack of innings essentially murdered the BP, and it's hard to understate how many games were lost to defensive ineptitude during the first third of the season.

[moonslav59]

Indeed - and then he fired the GM for doing it and started whining about the payroll inside of a season.

 

Exactly, and he actually cut off DD's spending after the 2018 season, except for the Sale, Bogey and Nate extensions, which I feel JH felt had to be done, after letting Betts go. We did not bring bacl Kimbrell and Kelly or even try to replace them, in kind.

 

There were also no significant prospect trades after the 2018 deadline moves.

 

This all didn't start under Bloom, and it is my opinion that DD would not have stayed, if asked to trade Betts and Price and not replace their salaries and Porcello's.

[moonslav59]

With the Ben regime, he didn't trade from the minor league talent, but I don't think they really added much to the minor league either. He lucked into Benintendi, but the remainder of those drafts were pretty bleak overall. If he didn't win in 2013, he is definitely worse than Chaim IMO. However, he DID win in 2013 so he gets a nice C-. Chaim gets a D+.

 

4 years of IFA signings added Devers, which was great, but precious little else, except for trade pieces for DD, like Moncada and Espinoza.

[moonslav59]

After reading what moon wrote, I'm fine if anyone wants to grade Bloom lower than a D+.

 

I don't think you can rationally argue him as having a B- tenure.

 

That's fine. I happen to think his overall grade is between a C+ and D+, and a B- might be closer to my choice than a D, but I put a lot of weight on the foundation handed over and the speculative value of the farm.

 

I would not give him a B-.

 

Years from now, I may change my grade to B- or even a D, depending on hos his guys do.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

After reading what moon wrote, I'm fine if anyone wants to grade Bloom lower than a D+.

 

I don't think you can rationally argue him as having a B- tenure.

 

Let's see: last place three of four years = failure 75% of the time... if you fail 75% of your classes at Yale, you're not getting fitted for a cap and gown -- no matter how much new knowledge you have stored up in your brain for future use.

[moonslav59]

Yes. It is clearly the best ownership in franchise history. It has also not been perfect and done some dubious baseball things the last decade. And despite some dubious process, the team won a couple of titles anyway. All of those things can exist at once.

 

Agreed. John I Taylor got 2 rings in 3 years back in the 1910's, but JH is clearly the best.

[moonslav59]

Let's see: last place three of four years = failure 75% of the time... if you fail 75% of your classes at Yale, you're not getting fitted for a cap and gown -- no matter how much new knowledge you have stored up in your brain for future use.

 

Some grade on what your final product was and a .500 or average team is about a C+ to D+.

[cp176]

He bought a team that hasn’t won in 80 years. I’m sure the notion entered his mind…

 

guess I have to disagree - if he was ok with Bloom's time table, he'd still be here don't you think?

[moonslav59]

guess I have to disagree - if he was ok with Bloom's time table, he'd still be here don't you think?

 

Maybe okay with some of the time table achievements but not the one that matters most to fans.

[dgalehouse]

Bloom is like your Uncle Jack. He was a general nuisance and didn't have much success. He got drunk and ruined Thanksgiving dinner. Only a few folks liked him. Then he died. Now, they are looking for nice things to say. "Uncle Jack had a lot of problems. Can't blame him for drinking. And I remember the time he helped us move and painted the basement. And he bought the kids gifts on their birthdays. He wasn't such a bad guy. Sorry to see him go."

[Dipre]

Bloom is like your Uncle Jack. He was a general nuisance and didn't have much success. He got drunk and ruined Thanksgiving dinner. Only a few folks liked him. Then he died. Now, they are looking for nice things to say. "Uncle Jack had a lot of problems. Can't blame him for drinking. And I remember the time he helped us move and painted the basement. And he bought the kids gifts on their birthdays. He wasn't such a bad guy. Sorry to see him go."

 

This story sounds awful personal.

[Old Red]

If I had a $ for every time I heard budget slashed, 5 year plan, rebuild, all in, building up the farm, and foundation ect on here I’d be rich, but if I had a $ for every time I heard it elsewhere Id go broke.

[Hugh2]

If I had a $ for every time I heard budget slashed, 5 year plan, rebuild, all in, building up the farm, and foundation ect on here I’d be rich, but if I had a $ for every time I heard it elsewhere Id go broke.

 

It's not like some secret mystery, it's pretty well known that that was his mandate when he came in here. To slash the budget, build the farm, try to compete while building a franchise for sustainable success. Fail he may, but it's pretty well known that was the plan when they brought Bloom in.

[mvp 78]

If I had a $ for every time I heard budget slashed, 5 year plan, rebuild, all in, building up the farm, and foundation ect on here I’d be rich, but if I had a $ for every time I heard it elsewhere Id go broke.

 

Must not get out much.

[Old Red]

Must not get out much.

 

Just the opposite. I do.

[moonslav59]

If I had a $ for every time I heard budget slashed, 5 year plan, rebuild, all in, building up the farm, and foundation ect on here I’d be rich, but if I had a $ for every time I heard it elsewhere Id go broke.

 

Says the leader of the "Like I said before" Club.

[dgalehouse]

If I had a $ for every time I heard budget slashed, 5 year plan, rebuild, all in, building up the farm, and foundation ect on here I’d be rich, but if I had a $ for every time I heard it elsewhere Id go broke.

 

If excuses for Bloom's failure were nickels , I would have enough for season tickets to Fenway.

[Old Red]

If excuses for Bloom's failure were nickels , I would have enough for season tickets to Fenway.

 

To listen to some on here they must have named a movie Against All Odds, and a song The Impossible Dream after Blooms tenure with the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

To listen to some on here they must have named a movie Against All Odds, and a song The Impossible Dream after Blooms tenure with the Red Sox.

 

Name one person who fits this profile.

[Old Red]

Name one person who fits this profile.

 

I’d say you, but I forgot you’re not a Bloom guy.🙈

[moonslav59]

I’d say you, but I forgot you’re not a Bloom guy.🙈

 

About as much as you are a Cora hater.

[Old Red]

About as much as you are a Cora hater.

 

I believe that would be 700, or many others. I just wouldn’t have hired him, or anyone else back under the same situation.

[Old Red]

Maybe okay with some of the time table achievements but not the one that matters most to fans.

 

Hard to believe isn’t it that WL records would matter most to fans?