A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Maxbialystock]

Playing meaningless games in garbage time is what the Red Sox have been regulated to do by Bloom, and some actually get giddy on here after a few wins, and think the Red Sox are actually better than they really are. I’m not one of those.

 

Interesting. Did you check the box score for last night's "meaningless game?" Attendance was 37,000, pretty close to a full house, and they saw Sale K seven guys while giving up 0 runs in 5 innings despite not having his hard fastball. He did get good use of his nasty slider and changeup, and the Sox won 3-2 with a lineup of regulars plus Rafaela and Dalbec (in for Casas who is on the IL).

 

As for me I watched the game online and definitely enjoyed it even though the lineup once again was disappointing (but not completely so).

[dgalehouse]

This season was a disappointing failure. Chaim Bloom's tenure was a disappointing failure. That is why he is gone.

[moonslav59]

Interesting. Did you check the box score for last night's "meaningless game?" Attendance was 37,000, pretty close to a full house, and they saw Sale K seven guys while giving up 0 runs in 5 innings despite not having his hard fastball. He did get good use of his nasty slider and changeup, and the Sox won 3-2 with a lineup of regulars plus Rafaela and Dalbec (in for Casas who is on the IL).

 

As for me I watched the game online and definitely enjoyed it even though the lineup once again was disappointing (but not completely so).

 

Well said, Max.

 

I've enjoyed the whole season, despite the disappointing W-L record.

 

Watching some kids improve their standing and outlook has been wonderful.

Casas

Bello

Duran's resurgence

Crawford & Wink

Wong & Mcguire (only one year apart in age)

along with some brief yet promising stints from Abreu, Rafaela, Murphy and EValdez. Hell, even Dalbec has raised some faint hopes.

 

Watching vets like Martin, Devers, Jansen, Duvall and particularly Turner perform well has been joyous, as well.

 

Of course, some players were painful to watch. I won't get into names, here. We all know who I'm talking about.

 

A few guys got our hopes up for brief or even extended moments: Sale, Paxton, Schreiber, Houck and Bernardino, but ultimately, they fell short of what we needed.

 

I'm not going to say it was a good season for the Sox, but I was entertained.

[Randy Red Sox]

That was also selling. I would have been happier with selling than what abloom would up doing.

 

I’d have made that trade, but let’s not pretend Cabrera is anything more than one of thousands of “raw stuff” guys who shows flashes of potential but ultimately struggles to stay in MLB…

 

I don't know that much about Cabera and you may well be right but I think he would be better than the comp pick we will get if Turner leaves

[notin]

I don't know that much about Cabera and you may well be right but I think he would be better than the comp pick we will get if Turner leaves

 

Trading doctrine for another pitcher that would have kept us within two games of the wild card would have been even better.

 

Like I said, Bloom neither bought nor sold. I would have been ok with either commitment. If you’re buying, keeping Turner makes sense.

 

But to do nothing was just inexcusable, and for the second year in a row is a good reason to fire Bloom. Passing up on one questionable trade is really not…

[notin]

I don't know that much about Cabera and you may well be right but I think he would be better than the comp pick we will get if Turner leaves

 

Also no shot in Hell the Sox are getting a comp pick when Turner leaves. They’re getting a buyout bill for $6.7mill and that’s it…

[Larry Cook]

I read on Boston.com today that Bloom turned down a Turner trade to the Marlins for Edward Cabera a hard throwing 25 yr old. That alone was worth firing him for since Turner is almost certain to walk after this year.

 

Hang’em Chaim was very rigid and he vastly overvalued his assets. Very tough to complete trades with that mentality.

 

The failure to execute the schimdt for verdugo trade was very frustrating to me.

[moonslav59]

Trading doctrine for another pitcher that would have kept us within two games of the wild card would have been even better.

 

Like I said, Bloom neither bought nor sold. I would have been ok with either commitment. If you’re buying, keeping Turner makes sense.

 

But to do nothing was just inexcusable, and for the second year in a row is a good reason to fire Bloom. Passing up on one questionable trade is really not…

 

Had we been sellers, and Cabrera was the best we could have gotten for JT, then yes, it would have been wise, but yes, by itself, it was not reason enough for firing.

 

The Sale suggested trade could be, though.

 

Imagine we were full out sellers in 2022 and 2023. Many fans would be more irrate, but they are just about maxed out on that scale, as it is, so how much worse could it have been?

 

Okay, okay....lost ticket sales and viewership matters more than what I think. I get it, but IMO, we have a pretty solid foundation, going forwards, as it is. Imagine we added players and prospects in trades for Paxton, JT, Duvall, Sale, Hill, Wacha, Nate, Strahm and yes, even Bogey, as I feel he'd have okay'd a trade, if he saw a total sell-off going on in 2022.

 

Our roster might look almost like the Astros from a few years ago.

[moonslav59]

Hang’em Chaim was very rigid and he vastly overvalued his assets. Very tough to complete trades with that mentality.

 

The failure to execute the schimdt for verdugo trade was very frustrating to me.

 

I'm not sure the Verdugo suggested trade fits what I'm about to say, but there are times when you have to just take the best you can get for someone you know will not be back the next season. It's not about getting back equal value. It's about doing better than nothing or better than a comp pick, in some cases, like Nate and Bogey.

[notin]

I'm not sure the Verdugo suggested trade fits what I'm about to say, but there are times when you have to just take the best you can get for someone you know will not be back the next season. It's not about getting back equal value. It's about doing better than nothing or better than a comp pick, in some cases, like Nate and Bogey.

 

And why won’t Verdugo be back next season?

[notin]

Had we been sellers, and Cabrera was the best we could have gotten for JT, then yes, it would have been wise, but yes, by itself, it was not reason enough for firing.

 

The Sale suggested trade could be, though.

 

Imagine we were full out sellers in 2022 and 2023. Many fans would be more irrate, but they are just about maxed out on that scale, as it is, so how much worse could it have been?

 

Okay, okay....lost ticket sales and viewership matters more than what I think. I get it, but IMO, we have a pretty solid foundation, going forwards, as it is. Imagine we added players and prospects in trades for Paxton, JT, Duvall, Sale, Hill, Wacha, Nate, Strahm and yes, even Bogey, as I feel he'd have okay'd a trade, if he saw a total sell-off going on in 2022.

 

Our roster might look almost like the Astros from a few years ago.

 

 

I’d have preferred he go for it. I like having a strong farm but two straight fire sales when the team was 3 or less games out of the postseason, while better than what Bloom did, is still ridiculous…

[jad]

Sorry, but you'd be bitching, if this team had Betts and Bogey and were on pace for 90-95 losses, because of the putrid players around them forced by the budget constraints those two would have placed on the GM.

 

No I wouldn't have been. I'd be enjoying watching them play, just as I now enjoy watching them play for LAD and SD, regardless of what the record of those teams might be. (I think you make a common mistake in assuming that everyone follows sports for the same reasons you do, and shares your basic assumptions.)

[moonslav59]

No I wouldn't have been. I'd be enjoying watching them play, just as I now enjoy watching them play for LAD and SD, regardless of what the record of those teams might be. (I think you make a common mistake in assuming that everyone follows sports for the same reasons you do, and shares your basic assumptions.)

 

Okay, enjoy watching them, but you and others would be bitching about losing 90-95 games, and how whoever the manager was found ways to lose games.

[moonslav59]

And why won’t Verdugo be back next season?

 

He will be back. That's why he would not fit my fire sale model.

[cp176]

Interesting. Did you check the box score for last night's "meaningless game?" Attendance was 37,000, pretty close to a full house, and they saw Sale K seven guys while giving up 0 runs in 5 innings despite not having his hard fastball. He did get good use of his nasty slider and changeup, and the Sox won 3-2 with a lineup of regulars plus Rafaela and Dalbec (in for Casas who is on the IL).

 

As for me I watched the game online and definitely enjoyed it even though the lineup once again was disappointing (but not completely so).

 

It's possible that much like me, when Sale is starting others want to watch as well. I enjoyed watching Bello when he pitched this season and I think he could be a strong middle of the rotation for us going forward. With respect to Chris Sale, I think that it is safe to say that I might be the only one here who was thrilled to see him re-signed. I still feel that way. I don't think too much about JH's supposed budget and I will always believe that you need some greatness to win. To this day when Sale is healthy and on, he is "greatness".

[moonslav59]

It's possible that much like me, when Sale is starting others want to watch as well. I enjoyed watching Bello when he pitched this season and I think he could be a strong middle of the rotation for us going forward. With respect to Chris Sale, I think that it is safe to say that I might be the only one here who was thrilled to see him re-signed. I still feel that way. I don't think too much about JH's supposed budget and I will always believe that you need some greatness to win. To this day when Sale is healthy and on, he is "greatness".

 

I liked the extension. I felt it was an underpay by about one year of what his true worth was, and that one year was about what we expected he'd miss.

 

Of course, he missed much more, and I've gotten to the point where I still like watching him pitch, but I don't think management can plan on him pitching in 2024.

[Bellhorn04]

I liked the extension. I felt it was an underpay by about one year of what his true worth was, and that one year was about what we expected he'd miss.

 

Of course, he missed much more, and I've gotten to the point where I still like watching him pitch, but I don't think management can plan on him pitching in 2024.

 

Just view him as a fungible #5 starter and hope for better. Nothing to lose at this point. He still does show flashes of top-caliber pitching.

[moonslav59]

Just view him as a fungible #5 starter and hope for better. Nothing to lose at this point. He still does show flashes of top-caliber pitching.

 

I still would not plan on him giving us starts from the 5 slot. If he ends up doing so, fine, but planning on it, is a mistake.

[jad]

Okay, enjoy watching them, but you and others would be bitching about losing 90-95 games, and how whoever the manager was found ways to lose games.

 

you continue to accuse unnamed others of acting the way you apparently would act.

[Old Red]

Interesting. Did you check the box score for last night's "meaningless game?" Attendance was 37,000, pretty close to a full house, and they saw Sale K seven guys while giving up 0 runs in 5 innings despite not having his hard fastball. He did get good use of his nasty slider and changeup, and the Sox won 3-2 with a lineup of regulars plus Rafaela and Dalbec (in for Casas who is on the IL).

 

As for me I watched the game online and definitely enjoyed it even though the lineup once again was disappointing (but not completely so).

 

Max those 37,000 tickets sold were sold months ago. Do think think they all showed up last night beating down the ticket office door to watch this non postseason team play?

[Bellhorn04]

I still would not plan on him giving us starts from the 5 slot. If he ends up doing so, fine, but planning on it, is a mistake.

 

So what do you suggest they do with him?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So what do you suggest they do with him?

 

Open with a righty who throws gas, so opponents load up their batting order with lefties. Then bring in the Incredible Bulk!

[notin]

Max those 37,000 tickets sold were sold months ago. Do think think they all showed up last night beating down the ticket office door to watch this non postseason team play?

 

They sold out this game ago? After coming in last place last year?

 

But all year long you’ve been telling us about the reduced attendance and how Henry doesn’t like our, use this last place Team was selling out September games 6 months in advance! With people showing up!

 

I guess that

[moonslav59]

you continue to accuse unnamed others of acting the way you apparently would act.

 

You are right.

 

Sox fans would not be upset, if we had Betts and Bogey and 90 losses.

 

My bad.

[moonslav59]

So what do you suggest they do with him?

 

Plan on 5 solid SP'ers and slot him at #6 or #7. We all know, we won't see all 5 give 32-22 starts, and if the do, then Sale could be a force from the pen, if he can be healthy.

 

We are asking to being force to move Whitlock or Houck to the rotation, if we plan on Sale as the #5.

 

Look, I realize he could start 32 and be a #2, but we just can't plan on it. He could give us zero starts, just as easily.

[jad]

You are right.

 

Sox fans would not be upset, if we had Betts and Bogey and 90 losses.

 

My bad.

 

Again, you are projecting. You assume there is such a thing as "sox fans" who apparently SHOULD all think the way you do but, due to their ignorance or moral deficiencies, do not. How do you stand spending so much time futilely lecturing us ignoramuses on the proper way to follow sports?

[Elktonnick]

Again, you are projecting. You assume there is such a thing as "sox fans" who apparently SHOULD all think the way you do but, due to their ignorance or moral deficiencies, do not. How do you stand spending so much time futilely lecturing us ignoramuses on the proper way to follow sports?

You hit that one out of the park!

[Nick]

Beni with biggest White Sox signing, 5 year, $75M.

 

For all you Beni fans. We dodged a bullett.

[moonslav59]

Again, you are projecting. You assume there is such a thing as "sox fans" who apparently SHOULD all think the way you do but, due to their ignorance or moral deficiencies, do not. How do you stand spending so much time futilely lecturing us ignoramuses on the proper way to follow sports?

 

Wrong again. "Projecting?" That doesn't fit, here.

 

I don't expect or want fans to see things like I do.

 

I see enough how fans react to the Sox losing to be able to form an opinion on how I think most would behave, when we lose 90 games. I see how they act when we a GM goes about .500 in less than 4 years.

 

If you are one that would enjoy watching a 90 loss Sox team, as long as they had Betts and Bogey, fine. I doubt many would agree, and as much as you complain, I guess I assumed wrongly about you and your type of fandomhood.

 

Sorry.

[moonslav59]

Beni with biggest White Sox signing, 5 year, $75M.

 

For all you Beni fans. We dodged a bullett.

 

He wasn't even all that good after the trade and before the signing.