A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Old Red]

Where do get this info?

 

I saw on line a few hours ago. No pitching added?

[Old Red]

I do NOT "want to dump" Verdugo." I am willing to trade him for equal value.

I think Sox brass is looking to trade him, as they will likely not extend him. He has one year of control left. He has trade value.

I'm tired of his antics and the poor example he sets for the growing number of young player joining the team.

He is having a fine defensive year in RF, but he has had average and below average years in RF, before. (I'm not one to always think a player's recent year is bound to be repeated, next year.)

I really like the idea of having Rafaela and Abreu get a solid chance at winning the CF and RF jobs.

I don't like the idea of having Duran and Ref as back-ups in CF or RF, so we do need someone else, and I guess having Dugo in RF for one more year makes a lot of sense in that context. We can let Rafaela and Abrue battle for CF and Abreu can back up RF, but then we have too many OF'ers, even if we make Yoshida the FT DH. Do you want to trade Ref or Duran?

 

It seems many here (not you Max) complain about us never trading for anything good- like a SP'er, but whenever a name is suggested, we are told we want to dump the guy or don't like him.

 

You gotta give to get!

 

We need pitching. We have an excess in OF and some young talent that appear to be ML ready. We can't make everyone "untouchable," if we want to make changes to a roster that is not a winning one.

Dugy, and Bloom had a meeting out on the field after a game the other day, which was reported lasted about 40 minutes. They showed a picture of Dugy standing there with his arm folded. A number of possible ways that meeting could have gone, or been about.

[moonslav59]

Dugy, and Bloom had a meeting out on the field after a game the other day, which was reported lasted about 40 minutes. They showed a picture of Dugy standing there with his arm folded. A number of possible ways that meeting could have gone, or been about.

 

I always felt Dugo was a fave of Cora. I remember when he was struggling v LHPs, Cora announced there would be no platoon.

 

I'm not sure how they get along, now, of how much Bloom might want to "rid the team" of a bad apple or feels it's all good, now.

[moonslav59]

I saw on line a few hours ago. No pitching added?

 

MVP says Walter.

 

I think you get one pitcher and one everyday player to add.

[mvp 78]

MVP says Walter.

 

I think you get one pitcher and one everyday player to add.

^^^

 

It was reported that their lockers were empty yesterday. Beat writers announced the move this afternoon.

[moonslav59]

^^^

 

It was reported that their lockers were empty yesterday. Beat writers announced the move this afternoon.

 

I believe you.

 

I was just wondering where you find this info, as I googled it and searched MLTRs, today.

[mvp 78]

I believe you.

 

I was just wondering where you find this info, as I googled it and searched MLTRs, today.

 

Chris Smith from MassLive reported it yesterday thanks to Katie Morrison O’Day (MassLive WooSox).

[moonslav59]

Chris Smith from MassLive reported it yesterday thanks to Katie Morrison O’Day (MassLive WooSox).

 

I wonder why GOOGLE missed it.

[moonslav59]

Do we have any MLB ready prospects in AAA or AA that we might want to give a look at the ML level?

 

We could DFA some FAs to be to make room of the 40 and 27.

 

On 40:

Dalbec

Murphy

Robertson

Weiss

 

Not on 40 (Rule 5 anyway?):

S Scott

G Gambrell

J Hagenman

Wikelman

 

DFA guys we will likely non tender, anyway?

Garza

Llovera

Barraclough

Jacques

 

FAs?

Paxton

Duvall

 

[Randy Red Sox]

I do NOT "want to dump" Verdugo." I am willing to trade him for equal value.

I think Sox brass is looking to trade him, as they will likely not extend him. He has one year of control left. He has trade value.

I'm tired of his antics and the poor example he sets for the growing number of young player joining the team.

He is having a fine defensive year in RF, but he has had average and below average years in RF, before. (I'm not one to always think a player's recent year is bound to be repeated, next year.)

I really like the idea of having Rafaela and Abreu get a solid chance at winning the CF and RF jobs.

I don't like the idea of having Duran and Ref as back-ups in CF or RF, so we do need someone else, and I guess having Dugo in RF for one more year makes a lot of sense in that context. We can let Rafaela and Abrue battle for CF and Abreu can back up RF, but then we have too many OF'ers, even if we make Yoshida the FT DH. Do you want to trade Ref or Duran?

 

It seems many here (not you Max) complain about us never trading for anything good- like a SP'er, but whenever a name is suggested, we are told we want to dump the guy or don't like him.

 

You gotta give to get!

 

We need pitching. We have an excess in OF and some young talent that appear to be ML ready. We can't make everyone "untouchable," if we want to make changes to a roster that is not a winning one.

 

no matter how you spin it with your post none of these guys are going to get us the quality P help we so desperately ned.

[harmony]

no matter how you spin it with your post none of these guys are going to get us the quality P help we so desperately ned.

The $72 million left on Masataka Yoshida’s contract nearly matches up with the $73 million remaining on the contract of the 2021 AL Cy Young Award winner.

 

Each team has needs.😁😁😁

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Dugy, and Bloom had a meeting out on the field after a game the other day, which was reported lasted about 40 minutes. They showed a picture of Dugy standing there with his arm folded. A number of possible ways that meeting could have gone, or been about.

 

He was trying to play Genie and blink Bloom into outer space.

[Bellhorn04]

Walter and Valdez

 

Walter AKA Next Sacrificial Lamb in Line

 

I still remember at the start of the season when we thought we had some depth in guys like Mata, Walter and Murphy. Good times.

[Old Red]

Walter AKA Next Sacrificial Lamb in Line

 

I still remember at the start of the season when we thought we had some depth in guys like Mata, Walter and Murphy. Good times.

 

How deep in depth do you want to go. The Red Sox have dug pretty deep bringing up, and finding pitching this year. Maybe an all time low.

[Old Red]

Walter AKA Next Sacrificial Lamb in Line

 

I still remember at the start of the season when we thought we had some depth in guys like Mata, Walter and Murphy. Good times.

 

How deep in depth do you want to go. The Red Sox have dug pretty deep bringing up, and finding pitching this year. Maybe an all time low.

[notin]

Walter AKA Next Sacrificial Lamb in Line

 

I still remember at the start of the season when we thought we had some depth in guys like Mata, Walter and Murphy. Good times.

 

 

Those 3 pitchers have a combined career total of 60 IP…

[Bellhorn04]

Those 3 pitchers have a combined career total of 60 IP…

 

Hey, I wasn't the one who said they could be good depth options for 2023...

[moonslav59]

no matter how you spin it with your post none of these guys are going to get us the quality P help we so desperately ned.

 

I disagree, and the idea is Casas or Duran would do the trick if packaged with 1-2 second tier guys like Hickey, Yorke, Romero or maybe Walter + Murphy counted as 1.

 

I don’t think some recent deals gave anymore.

 

I suppose a Casas and Duran package would gain a lot of interest but that’s a lot of potential future leaving us.

[moonslav59]

Hey, I wasn't the one who said they could be good depth options for 2023...

 

I don’t think they looked to be bad extended depth. None were thought of as our number 6 or 7 or even 8 or 9, if you thought Wink could have been starter depth in March.

 

We knew Paxton and Sale would miss time, and I remember saying that counting on both to combine for 32 starts was pushing it, but to me we had more quantity than quality, but some potential in 8-9, then the three you listed.

 

Sale

Paxton

Kluber

Houck

Whitlock

Bello

Paxton

Crawford

Winckowski

 

Mata, Walter and Murphy were 10, 11 and12th, until the choice was made never to start Wink, so maybe 9-10-11th.

 

I still don’t think, at the time, that was a bad position to hold.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think they looked to be bad extended depth. None were thought of as our number 6 or 7 or even 8 or 9, if you thought Wink could have been starter depth in March.

 

We knew Paxton and Sale would miss time, and I remember saying that counting on both to combine for 32 starts was pushing it, but to me we had more quantity than quality, but some potential in 8-9, then the three you listed.

 

Sale

Paxton

Kluber

Houck

Whitlock

Bello

Paxton

Crawford

Winckowski

 

Mata, Walter and Murphy were 10, 11 and12th, until the choice was made never to start Wink, so maybe 9-10-11th.

 

I still don’t think, at the time, that was a bad position to hold.

 

But as fans we're programmed to be optimistic.

[moonslav59]

But as fans we're programmed to be optimistic.

 

.Nobody from the Sox top brass led me to have some hope for Mata, Walter and Murphy.

 

Yes, I was always worried about Mata's health and the idea that the pen was likely a better spot for him, but he did have a sub .600 OPS Against, last season.

 

Murphy fell apart, in the second half of 2022, but he had a great first half. I think he led the team in OPS Against until June or July. He still ended up at .687 as he led the whole farm in IP.

 

Walter had some nice numbers, too. He had a .585 OPS Against and 75 Ks to just 7 BBs in 58 IP.

 

I'm not sure why guys like Houck and Bello carry over their AAA numbers or even do better in the bigs, but so many promising pitchers, by the numbers, suck when called up by the Sox. It's not like none of these three had s***** stuff in the minors.

 

One big point is that we ended up having to count on our 9-10-11-12 guys more than most teams end up having to do. We knew we had some injuries and injury prone pitchers, but I can't really blame anyone for not predicting we'd have all those missed starts by Whitlock, Houck, Saale, Paxton, and even Bello missed a couple, early on. Pivetta was demoted, as was Kluber, but then Kluber went on the IL.

 

8-9 pitchers is probably what most good teams plan on, and I'm not sure many other teams have significant;y better 10's, 11's and 12's than ours were believed to be back in March.

 

To me, our rotation problem has been- choosing quantity over quality and durability/dependability.

 

Until we build up the rotation from the top and stop trying to improve our #4 and 5's, we won't win, again.

 

Bello would be a great #3 and okay as our Number 2.

Houck would be a great #5 and okay as a #4.

Pivetta would be better used as our #6, but would be okay as our #5. Same with Crawford. These two would be very nice 6's and 7's.

 

We need two solid and dependable SP'ers, this winter. Even adding one ace who gives us 33 starts, alone would not be enough.

 

Two solid #'s might be enough, but we need 2 not 1. 3 would be even nicer, but that is a pipedream, as probably even 2 is.

[Bellhorn04]

I won't be surprised to hear Paxton has been shut down for the season.

 

Hell, they might shut down Bello. What's the point of putting him at risk now?

[Dipre]

Trading Casas and Duran would be stupid. They can just buy pitching. They can sign a young guy long term, and a cheaper option like Montgomery or an older guy (not Kluber) to fill out their rotation without sacrificing their own offensive depth. The talk about trading Casas specifically is idiocy. He's cost controlled and can flat out hit. Stop.

[notin]

Hey, I wasn't the one who said they could be good depth options for 2023...

 

Two of them were depth options. But nothing can be real learned about a prospect as a pitcher over a few scattered IP here and there.

 

Murphy and Walter are not the problems on this staff…

[notin]

I won't be surprised to hear Paxton has been shut down for the season.

 

Hell, they might shut down Bello. What's the point of putting him at risk now?

 

I wouldn’t be surprised to here that Paxton was taken to a veterinarian and mercifully put to sleep…

[notin]

Trading Casas and Duran would be stupid. They can just buy pitching. They can sign a young guy long term, and a cheaper option like Montgomery or an older guy (not Kluber) to fill out their rotation without sacrificing their own offensive depth. The talk about trading Casas specifically is idiocy. He's cost controlled and can flat out hit. Stop.

 

Casas should stay. The Sox do have an outfield glut and a SP dearth. Cost-controlled Duran could be moved due to a potential lack of position/starting role. I know people think “but he won’t get an ace and we need an ace!! Maybe two aces!!” And they’d be right if this was 1985. But todays SP need not be aces on the Bullpen Driven Era.

 

I do think the Sox can land a decent enough SP for Duran. And role with Yoshida-Rafaela(or Abreu)-Verdugo in the OF…

Edited September 2, 2023 by notin

[Dipre]

Casas should stay. The Sox do have an outfield glut and a SP dearth. Cost-controlled Duran could be moved due to a potential lack of position/starting role. I know people think “but he won’t get an ace and we need an ace!! Maybe two aces!!” And they’d be right if this was 1985. But todays SP need not be aces on the Bullpen Driven Era.

 

I do think Duran can land a decent enough SP for Duran. And role with Yoshida-Rafaela(or Abreu)-Verdugo in the OF…

 

This is a fair take.

[Bellhorn04]

Two of them were depth options. But nothing can be real learned about a prospect as a pitcher over a few scattered IP here and there.

 

Murphy and Walter are not the problems on this staff…

 

The problem was not enough good starters from Day One...

[notin]

The problem was not enough good starters from Day One...

 

And the real problem was failing to rectify this at any point afterwards…

[Bellhorn04]

And the real problem was failing to rectify this at any point afterwards…

 

I'd say they were both real problems!