A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Dipre]

Max said it and he's right. Adapting the old adage told to Dominican prospects, you don't catch into the Major Leagues, you hit into the Major Leagues.

[moonslav59]

As for the defense, I agree it's probably the worst defense in MLB. Bad as it is, however, the Sox still plays errorless ball 98 freaking percent of the time, and the best defense in MLB plays errorless ball 99% of the time.

 

I'm willing to concede those percentages don't include double play balls that only yielded one out, catchable flies/grounders that weren't, etc. But I'm not willing to concede they are more important than the pitching and hitting and the real reason why the Sox are struggling.

 

They don't count anything as an error anymore, unless you kick a slow grounder.

 

The amount of somewhat easy or routine or slightly difficult plays not made could be near 100, and I'm not exaggerating.

 

Even if we agree it's 60, let's apply that to the offense. Let's say our offense got 60 less hits, our BA would go from .265 to .251. That would moves us from 3rd in MLB to 15th.

Edited August 31, 2023 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm another apologist. I feel sorry for any Red Sox fan who has suffered through the disassembling and reconstruction of the major league team the past four years. When the current CBO got his mitts on the club, they were defending champions of the world.

 

Apparently, he thought that was an alien world, judging by befuddling attempts at reverse-engineering the roster, as if it were a crashed UFO retrieved by the military from a southwestern desert.

 

He befuddling...

[mvp 78]

I'm another apologist. I feel sorry for any Red Sox fan who has suffered through the disassembling and reconstruction of the major league team the past four years. When the current CBO got his mitts on the club, they were defending champions of the world.

 

Apparently, he thought that was an alien world, judging by befuddling attempts at reverse-engineering the roster, as if it were a crashed UFO retrieved by the military from a southwestern desert.

 

He befuddling...

 

No they weren't.

[Bellhorn04]

No they weren't.

 

Here we go.

 

I think technically he's correct. Bloom was hired before the end of the 2019 World Series.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No they weren't.

 

They weren't defending their rings in October '19 since they didn't even make the playoffs, but Bloom inherited the greatest team in Red Sox history (except the scariest bullpen in Red Sox history, because Kimbrel and Kelly were elsewhere). And Cashner. And Gorkys. And Owings... f***it - flea-bomb the house!

[mvp 78]

Here we go.

 

I think technically he's correct. Bloom was hired before the end of the 2019 World Series.

 

Once the playoffs had started, they were at home. They were no longer "defending world champions." Their season was over. If he was hired during the regular season, a case could be made (not a great one).

[notin]

Once the playoffs had started, they were at home. They were no longer "defending world champions." Their season was over. If he was hired during the regular season, a case could be made (not a great one).

 

Also, Bloom was hired 5 days before the end of the series, but he didn’t actually start (aka “take over”) that day. I mean, who starts a job the same day they accept the offer?

[notin]

They weren't defending their rings in October '19 since they didn't even make the playoffs, but Bloom inherited the greatest team in Red Sox history (except the scariest bullpen in Red Sox history, because Kimbrel and Kelly were elsewhere). And Cashner. And Gorkys. And Owings... f***it - flea-bomb the house!

 

 

Or… Bloom inherited a $240miill team that was barely above .500…

[mvp 78]

They weren't defending their rings in October '19 since they didn't even make the playoffs, but Bloom inherited the greatest team in Red Sox history (except the scariest bullpen in Red Sox history, because Kimbrel and Kelly were elsewhere). And Cashner. And Gorkys. And Owings... f***it - flea-bomb the house!

 

Maybe they aren't the greatest team of all time without Ian Kinsler? Maybe that's why they were so down bad in 2019?

[mvp 78]

Also, Bloom was hired 5 days before the end of the series, but he didn’t actually start (aka “take over”) that day. I mean, who starts a job the same day they accept the offer?

 

Are we sure he's even started by now?

[moonslav59]

This is getting funny.

 

We can use a good laugh.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Max, Moon, and my cousin Dipre are all right.

 

The Red Sox' overall game is disrespectful to fans -- and my take is that the easiest way back to respectability is to tighten up the D. Good glovemen who can't hit are easy to find -- and cheap -- so carry a few on the roster; instead of the "white flags" playing musical chairs for the last spots in the bullpen.

 

If starting pitchers aren't required to get 4 or 5 outs per inning every game, then good relievers wouldn't suffer from burn-out, and the pen wouldn't need a dumpster-diving, scrapheaping helping of bargain bins every August.

 

The offense is deceiving. If Turner comes back, maybe he can influence others with two strikes to make contact and not pull their heads. Hitting can improve with proper practice.

 

But I have no answers for the stream of baserunning blunders. Maybe base coaches can use big color-coded flash cards: green for go, red for stop, yellow -- Go Back, Fool!

[Dipre]

We're cousins? I'm too brown for that bro.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We're cousins? I'm too brown for that bro.

 

Steely Dan song... maybe starring Wander?

[Bellhorn04]

Once the playoffs had started, they were at home. They were no longer "defending world champions." Their season was over. If he was hired during the regular season, a case could be made (not a great one).

 

OK, they were "reigning world champions", then. You're champion until there's a new one.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm another apologist. I feel sorry for any Red Sox fan who has suffered through the disassembling and reconstruction of the major league team the past four years. When the current CBO got his mitts on the club, they were defending champions of the world.

 

Apparently, he thought that was an alien world, judging by befuddling attempts at reverse-engineering the roster, as if it were a crashed UFO retrieved by the military from a southwestern desert.

 

He befuddling...

 

Wrong! When CB took over, the Sox had just undergone one of the truly great nosedives in Sox history. DD, not CH, presided over that collapse in 2019--after the best season in Sox history in 2018. And he did it with much the same players, less Kimbrel (who stunk in the 2018 postseason), they had in 2018--Mookie, Beni, JDM, JBJ, Bogey, Devers, Sale, Price, Eovaldi, etc, etc.

 

The problem was the pitching collapsed in 2019.

 

CB inherited a mess as well as an irate owner who 1) did not want to get in a bidding war with the Dodgers and other clubs to retain Mookie (and later did the same with Bogey); 2) did not want to continue offering huge contracts to starters who don't deliver; 3) wanted to do things differently from what he had been doing, which basically was leading MLB in payroll and not getting into the postseason.

 

About #3 above. At the end of the movie Moneyball, the actor playing John Henry comments how little the A's paid per win in 2002 vs. how much the Yankees had paid--and promptly offered Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) the highest GM salary in sports to work the same magic in Boston.

 

We all know that in fact JH has spent plenty--actually, the fans have paid because the Sox always show a profit--on players, at least until recently.

 

So let's take a quick peek at the following scorecard.

 

The Mets, Yankees, and Padres have the three highest payrolls in MLB and all have losing records.

 

The Sox have the 15th highest payroll in MLB and have a winning record.

 

I am not at all saying Cora or Bloom is perfect. Far from it. But I am saying that John Henry--far more than Chaim Bloom--made the crucial decision to do more with less and that it's too soon to say it's the disaster you claim it is.

 

In fact, compared to the GM's (or Chief Baseball Officers) of the Mets, Yankees, and Padres, Chaim Bloom is the pick of the litter.

 

And this. Being ranked 15th in MLB payrolls is unprecedented for the Sox in the John Henry era and probably in the last 50 years.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

Wrong! When CB took over, the Sox had just undergone one of the truly great nosedives in Sox history. DD, not CH, presided over that collapse in 2019--after the best season in Sox history in 2018. And he did it with much the same players, less Kimbrel (who stunk in the 2018 postseason), they had in 2018--Mookie, Beni, JDM, JBJ, Bogey, Devers, Sale, Price, Eovaldi, etc, etc.

 

The problem was the pitching collapsed in 2019.

 

CB inherited a mess as well as an irate owner who 1) did not want to get in a bidding war with the Dodgers and other clubs to retain Mookie (and later did the same with Bogey); 2) did not want to continue offering huge contracts to starters who don't deliver; 3) wanted to do things differently from what he had been doing, which basically was leading MLB in payroll and not getting into the postseason.

 

About #3 above. At the end of the movie Moneyball, the actor playing John Henry comments how little the A's paid per win in 2002 vs. how much the Yankees had paid--and promptly offered Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) the highest GM salary in sports to work the same magic in Boston.

 

We all know that in fact JH has spent plenty--actually, the fans have paid because the Sox always show a profit--on players, at least until recently.

 

So let's take a quick peek at the following scorecard.

 

The Mets, Yankees, and Padres have the three highest payrolls in MLB and all have losing records.

 

The Sox have the 15th highest payroll in MLB and have a winning record.

 

I am not at all saying Cora or Bloom is perfect. Far from it. But I am saying that John Henry--far more than Chaim Bloom--made the crucial decision to do more with less and that it's too soon to say it's the disaster you claim it is.

 

In fact, compared to the GM's (or Chief Baseball Officers) of the Mets, Yankees, and Padres, Chaim Bloom is the pick of the litter.

 

And this. Being ranked 15th in MLB payrolls is unprecedented for the Sox in the John Henry era and probably in the last 50 years.

 

They'd like to tell you to stop making excuses, Max.

 

Bottom line is a GM with declining vets, little money to spend and a farm with no help for 5 years is a failure, if he can't win more than the losing 2019 team. But, it's us making excuses.

 

What's the excuse for 2019 and declining vet production? To them, that's on Bloom, too.

A farm that adds only Houck between Devers in '17 and Bello in '22-'23? That's on Bloom, too.

A cut budget? Yes, Bloom begged JH to slash the budget so he could prove we can win without spending.

 

It's all "excuses."

[mvp 78]

@ByAndrewParker

David Hamilton has been sent back down to Worcester and the Red Sox have activated Wilyer Abreu off Paternity leave.

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong! When CB took over, the Sox had just undergone one of the truly great nosedives in Sox history.

 

We've had 3 great nosedives since 2012.

 

2011-2012 90 to 69 23.3%

2013-2014 97 to 71 26.8%

2018-2019 108 to 84 22.2%

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don't call a team with a winning record taking a "nose-dive", just because the previous year they set a franchise mark for wins.

 

To me, a club that consistently scrapes its nose on the pavement is in worse shape.

 

Even if the 2023 Red Sox somehow rally and go 16-12 in September to finish with 85 wins, I'd still bet my house on the 84-win 2019 Sox in a head-to-head showdown.

 

The '19 Sox with Betts, Benintendi and Bradley on the bases would run wild with glee on all the misplays, overthrows, and fake hits that '23 scorers would give them. But if you want to ignore the '23 D because winning is all about bashing, then how about three guys who hit 30 HRs, 100 RBIs with a .300 BA: Bogaerts, Devers, JD. They also had three others with 20 or more dingers: Betts, Vaz, JBJ. They also had three with 100 runs scored, including Mookie, who led the MLB with 135, Raffy 129, X 110. Devers also led the majors with 90 XBHs, while Xander was second in the AL with 85.

 

My starting pitcher for the big game would be ERod, who won 19, lost 6, had a 3.81 ERA and threw over 200 innings. I'd like my chances knocking Bello out by the 5th or 6th and facing a tired bulk guy or DOAed waiver wire reliever before seeing Martin in the 8th. The only problem for the Hey-19s is if younger Cora brought in Barnes...

[moonslav59]

We've had 3 great nosedives since 2012.

 

2011-2012 90 to 69 23.3%

2013-2014 97 to 71 26.8%

2018-2019 108 to 84 22.2%

 

If it's all about results, how come no Bloom team is on this list?

 

Are the Bloom bashers just making excuses?

 

LOL!

[Maxbialystock]

We've had 3 great nosedives since 2012.

 

2011-2012 90 to 69 23.3%

2013-2014 97 to 71 26.8%

2018-2019 108 to 84 22.2%

 

Good find!!

 

However, the 2011 team stunk and got Francona fired and the 2012 had Valentine at the helm.

 

2013-14 is, I agree, a better parallel, except that John Henry ended up bringing in his biggest spender yet, DD.

 

This time is different. It is beyond question that bringing in CB was/is a clear signal that big spending days were/are over and the Sox are in a sea change. Thus the departures of Mookie and Bogey and no big bucks for pitchers.

[dgalehouse]

Good find!!

 

However, the 2011 team stunk and got Francona fired and the 2012 had Valentine at the helm.

 

2013-14 is, I agree, a better parallel, except that John Henry ended up bringing in his biggest spender yet, DD.

 

This time is different. It is beyond question that bringing in CB was/is a clear signal that big spending days were/are over and the Sox are in a sea change. Thus the departures of Mookie and Bogey and no big bucks for pitchers.

 

How is that working out ?

[Bellhorn04]

Good find!!

 

However, the 2011 team stunk and got Francona fired and the 2012 had Valentine at the helm.

 

2013-14 is, I agree, a better parallel, except that John Henry ended up bringing in his biggest spender yet, DD.

 

This time is different. It is beyond question that bringing in CB was/is a clear signal that big spending days were/are over and the Sox are in a sea change. Thus the departures of Mookie and Bogey and no big bucks for pitchers.

 

If they don't spend big bucks on a pitcher before next season it will be truly astonishing.

[Duran Is The Man]

If it's all about results, how come no Bloom team is on this list?

 

Are the Bloom bashers just making excuses?

 

LOL!

 

it's hard to nosedive when you're already at the bottom.

[moonslav59]

it's hard to nosedive when you're already at the bottom.

 

Oh, I thought 2019 was the same team as 2018.

 

Oh, and by the way we had 92 wins in 2021, which is more than one season on that list.

Edited August 31, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

If they don't spend big bucks on a pitcher before next season it will be truly astonishing.

 

I think they will lose a lot of fans, if they suck, next year.

 

If they add good pitching (on paper,) but they fail anyway, maybe some slack might be given to the team, but Bloom will be roasted alive.

[notin]

Are we sure he's even started by now?

 

So… you’re saying we still have Mookie?

 

I did see him at Fenway last week…

[moonslav59]

Well, Bloom has yet to be named GM.