A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[moonslav59]

Since the All Star Break, here are the Sox leaders in ERA, listed in order of most IP"

 

4.47 Bello 46 IP

4.02 Pivetta 40

2.95 Crawford 40

5.82 Paxton 39

4.91 Murphy 22

2.45 Wink 18

0.61 Martin 15

5.65 Schreiber 14

5.14 Sale 14

2.62 Bernardino 14

1.64 Jansen 11

7.27 Whitlock 9

5.40 Houck 5

 

August

0.00 Martin 10 IP

1.23 Jansen 7.1

2.84 Bernardino 6.1

3.00 Crawford 24

3.26 Bello 30.1

3.17 Wink 11

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by moonslav59

[Nick]

Our starters are struggling. I just don't see us going on a streak to gain grounds. Not sure going 6 out of 10 will get the job done.

 

Running out of time.

[Old Red]

Our starters are struggling. I just don't see us going on a streak to gain grounds. Not sure going 6 out of 10 will get the job done.

 

Running out of time.

 

The starters are struggling, and the BP is starting to throw more pitches too. As good as Martin has been he threw 29 pitches in an inning the other night, which is a lot for 1 inning. Pitchers thrown some times is more important that how many innings are pitched.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, the team isn't quitting, you can say that much.

[Old Red]

Well, the team isn't quitting, you can say that much.

 

Nor should they. The biggest question is can they climb out of that hole that they dug for themselves. Leaping 3-4 teams is a lot harder than 1. Only taking 2 out of three against Houston only gains you 1 game. You can’t expect someone else to do it for you.

[Nick]

Well, the team isn't quitting, you can say that much.

 

They are professionals. I never said anything about 'quitters'. I like my current Red Sox.

 

The time is running out.

 

I will say that there's only one person responsible for this season.

 

It's the guy that signed Kluber. He more than anyone else put us three games behind the wild card teams. We were slow to react to Kluber's ineptitude. The $10M price tag may had something to do with it. He's been put out to the pasture. There will be time to reflect on this much later, when the season is over.

 

I think Bloom has done many right things and I don't think he should be fired.

 

He'll be judged before April 1st, 2024. We'll see if he does enough to correct the team composition. Or will it be another hope and a prayer season?

Edited August 27, 2023 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Our starters are struggling. I just don't see us going on a streak to gain grounds. Not sure going 6 out of 10 will get the job done.

 

Running out of time.

 

If the 6 games won are all vs HOU and TOR, then going 6-4 in those 10 games might be enough, but your point is well-taken.

 

Another chance we have is when our closest opps play each other, If we go 6-4 and one beats up on the other, so one goes 3-7, we can gain a lot of ground.

[moonslav59]

Well, the team isn't quitting, you can say that much.

 

They've dug a lot of holes over the season, so far, and they might have another one of two to go, but they keep filling those holes back in, just when we are near ready to totally pack it in.

 

(It seems some, like Fred Lynn have already packed it in. Others seem to have.)

[S5Dewey]

If the 6 games won are all vs HOU and TOR, then going 6-4 in those 10 games might be enough, but your point is well-taken.

 

Another chance we have is when our closest opps play each other, If we go 6-4 and one beats up on the other, so one goes 3-7, we can gain a lot of ground.

 

?? If they're playing each other and one of them goes 3-7 then the others goes 7-3. IMO the best we can hope for is that they split with one another and we gain ground on both of them.

[Nick]

hedge fund manager Steve Cohen purchased the Mets for about $2.475 billion in November, 2020

 

Opening Mets Payroll under Cohen.

 

2023 $330,685,945 ( 1)

2022 $264,498,338 ( 2)

2021 $195,448,964 ( 3)

 

Maybe John Henry and Steve Cohen can swap teams.

 

 

I'll say one thing about hedge fund managers. They know when they are holding a LOSER.

 

Mets' luxury tax payroll at start for 2023 was $376M. It will be $243M, which includes $55M for 3 players not playing in 2024. Mr. Verlander, Cohen paid $10M for the balance of your 2023 payroll and $25M for 2024 just to get rid of you. That's what he thought of you in the end. He probably thinks you stole his money. But by all means, act tough. (but if we trade for you, I'll be your fan.)

Edited August 27, 2023 by Nick

[moonslav59]

They are professionals. I never said anything about 'quitters'. I like my current Red Sox.

 

The time is running out.

 

I will say that there's only one person responsible for this season.

 

It's the guy that signed Kluber. He more than anyone else put us three games behind the wild card teams. We were slow to react to Kluber's ineptitude. The $10M price tag may had something to do with it. He's been put out to the pasture. There will be time to reflect on this much later, when the season is over.

 

I think Bloom has done many right things and I don't think he should be fired.

 

He'll be judged before April 1st, 2024. We'll see if he does enough to correct the team composition. Or will it be another hope and a prayer season?

 

The Kluber signing was a killer. The plan to keep spending just $10M/1 (or less) on SP'ers is doomed to fail. I agree.

 

However, to me, it's on the players. We've had a lot go right, but many key players really s*** the bed, this season: Kike, Houck, Whitlock, to name a few.

 

Bloom made some very nice additions, last winter (Turner, Duvall, Martin and Jansen) and during the year (Reyes, Urias, Bernardino and sticking with Duran.) It's hard for me to place blame on one person, and the overall improvement of this team from last year, despite losing Bogey, JD, Nate, Wacha, Hill and Strahm can also be attributed mainly to Bloom, so if I had to name one guy, it would not be Bloom.

[moonslav59]

?? If they're playing each other and one of them goes 3-7 then the others goes 7-3. IMO the best we can hope for is that they split with one another and we gain ground on both of them.

 

I think we have to hope one team, like SEA kills TEX and HOU. If they split, it makes it harder, IMO. We go 6-4, they go 6-4 ot 5-5. We need to pass 2 not 3 or 4.

[Duran Is The Man]

Since the All Star Break, here are the Sox leaders in ERA, listed in order of most IP"

 

4.47 Bello 46 IP

4.02 Pivetta 40

2.95 Crawford 40

5.82 Paxton 39

4.91 Murphy 22

2.45 Wink 18

0.61 Martin 15

5.65 Schreiber 14

5.14 Sale 14

2.62 Bernardino 14

1.64 Jansen 11

7.27 Whitlock 9

5.40 Houck 5

 

August

0.00 Martin 10 IP

1.23 Jansen 7.1

2.84 Bernardino 6.1

3.00 Crawford 24

3.26 Bello 30.1

3.17 Wink 11

 

 

Martin has been lights out all season. i had no doubt he would clean up Whit's mess in the 8th last night. great signing.

Edited August 27, 2023 by ****THEYANKEES

[Nick]

Martin has been lights out all season. i had no doubt he would clean up Whit's mess in the 8th last night. great signing.

 

Having Jansen and Martin come back will give us head start going into 2024.

[S5Dewey]

Great pitching staff will get us title 5. Our core position players are pretty well set. We will always need a Turner/Duvall type rentals but they can be found.

 

Sign as many starters as possible and see who sticks on the wall.

 

In the five years prior to 2007 the Red Sox signed the best starting pitcher available each year. Some of them didn't work out, but some did. In no particular order, Pedro, Schilling, Beckett, Dice-K, and the ill-fated Matt Clement.

 

Jus' sayin'

[Nick]

By the numbers.....looking at 2024 luxury tax payroll (no arbitration payroll included), $237M threshhold

 

 

1 Orioles $21M (can you say, 'crap'?)

2 Rays $99M (but includes $16M for Wander)

3 Jays $141M

4 Sox $157M

5 Yankees $196M (this team sure looks old and slow)

 

Scary to think what the Orioles can buy.

[Nick]

In the five years prior to 2007 the Red Sox signed the best starting pitcher available each year. Some of them didn't work out, but some did. In no particular order, Pedro, Schilling, Beckett, Dice-K, and the ill-fated Matt Clement.

 

Jus' sayin'

 

Yep, you're saying it's doable and I'm witcha ya. (wasn't Clement the guy that got hit in the head or something and was never the same?)

Edited August 27, 2023 by Nick

[Maxbialystock]

Kluber was one freaking guy and vastly over-emphasized in this discussion.

 

So forget freaking Kluber and remember two key points.

 

First are all those injuries and the subsequent return of Sale, Story, Whitlock, and Houck--kind of like the cavalry coming to the rescue.

 

Second, however, is playing 48 freaking games from August 4 to September 20 with just 3 off days. That's just a killer schedule and we are now 3+ weeks into it. So of course the pitching staff is stressed.

 

And that's why I keep harping on the lineup scoring runs. Simply stated, they need to score 5 runs in any game they hope to win.

 

With the exception of Yoshida, I don't think any of them are tired--not even 39 year old Turner. Duran isn't missed that much because he was in a slump anyway. Duvall is really coming on, and Story just might be about to--and I think those righty bats (also Turner, Reyes, and even Wong) are key.

[Nick]

Kluber was one freaking guy and vastly over-emphasized in this discussion.

 

So forget freaking Kluber and remember two key points.

 

First are all those injuries and the subsequent return of Sale, Story, Whitlock, and Houck--kind of like the cavalry coming to the rescue.

 

Second, however, is playing 48 freaking games from August 4 to September 20 with just 3 off days. That's just a killer schedule and we are now 3+ weeks into it. So of course the pitching staff is stressed.

 

And that's why I keep harping on the lineup scoring runs. Simply stated, they need to score 5 runs in any game they hope to win.

 

With the exception of Yoshida, I don't think any of them are tired--not even 39 year old Turner. Duran isn't missed that much because he was in a slump anyway. Duvall is really coming on, and Story just might be about to--and I think those righty bats (also Turner, Reyes, and even Wong) are key.

 

Be careful....you'll get Cora fans pissed off about 'scheduled' time off. They need to be fresh for April 2024.

 

PS. Giving a player Sunday off before the All Star Break did it for me. You treat them like babies, they will act like babies.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

In the five years prior to 2007 the Red Sox signed the best starting pitcher available each year. Some of them didn't work out, but some did. In no particular order, Pedro, Schilling, Beckett, Dice-K, and the ill-fated Matt Clement.

 

Jus' sayin'

 

Of course the first three were traded for first -- but all were available because they wanted to get paid. Upon reflection, even at the time, Pedro and Schilling didn't cost a haul, just some young pitchers with potential.

 

The Beckett trade cost the Sox their top prospect, Hanley Ramirez, who was an instant star in the NL. But Boston won the World Series...

 

Some also may argue Lackey was a top mound prize at the time of his signing. Sale, another mega-trade, definitely was... especially -- ironically now -- his contract was such a steal when he was acquired.

[Bellhorn04]

Be careful....you'll get Cora fans pissed off about 'scheduled' time off. They need to be fresh for April 2024.

 

PS. Giving a player Sunday off before the All Star Break did it for me. You treat them like babies, they will act like babies.

Who are you talking about?

[Nick]

[/b]

Who are you talking about?

 

I can't remember off top of my head.....I think two players were held out that Sunday. Maybe it was a night game before an afternoon game. I'm not a fan of scheduled time off but I do see the other side of the argument. (I don't have access to MassLive archives but I bet one of you can go back on THIS thread and find a discussion about it.)

Edited August 27, 2023 by Nick

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kluber was one freaking guy and vastly over-emphasized in this discussion.

 

 

No he's not. Bloom signed Kluber, but not All-Star Eovaldi. And fans don't care that both spent time on the IL, since most pitchers do, and those that don't are only injuries waiting to happen.

 

Nate's 3.9 WAR would at minimum equate to three more Wins Above Wild Card Competitors. WAWCC!!!!

[Nick]

Bellhorn04

 

Have you seen all my posts today? See the one about I said I like my current team? I bitched mostly about two players and they are both gone.

[notin]

No he's not. Bloom signed Kluber, but not All-Star Eovaldi. And fans don't care that both spent time on the IL, since most pitchers do, and those that don't are only injuries waiting to happen.

 

Nate's 3.9 WAR would at minimum equate to three more Wins Above Wild Card Competitors. WAWCC!!!!

 

The Sox apparently did try to bring back Eovaldi…

[moonslav59]

Having Jansen and Martin come back will give us head start going into 2024.

 

What a difference 2 year deals can make, right?

 

All those one year deals made some sense, but starting from scratch every winter sucked.

[moonslav59]

By the numbers.....looking at 2024 luxury tax payroll (no arbitration payroll included), $237M threshhold

 

 

1 Orioles $21M (can you say, 'crap'?)

2 Rays $99M (but includes $16M for Wander)

3 Jays $141M

4 Sox $157M

5 Yankees $196M (this team sure looks old and slow)

 

The exact alignment by record in 2023, too!

 

See what building a great farm can do?

[moonslav59]

Of course the first three were traded for first -- but all were available because they wanted to get paid. Upon reflection, even at the time, Pedro and Schilling didn't cost a haul, just some young pitchers with potential.

 

The Beckett trade cost the Sox their top prospect, Hanley Ramirez, who was an instant star in the NL. But Boston won the World Series...

 

Some also may argue Lackey was a top mound prize at the time of his signing. Sale, another mega-trade, definitely was... especially -- ironically now -- his contract was such a steal when he was acquired.

 

The Beckett trade also involved taking a salary dump player in Mike Lowell. The rest is history.

[Nick]

Let's enjoy the game today at 1:35 pm. Looking forward to Houck pitching.

 

Have a great day, all Sox fans. Adios.

[Bellhorn04]

I can't remember off top of my head.....I think two players were held out that Sunday. Maybe it was a night game before an afternoon game. I'm not a fan of scheduled time off but I do see the other side of the argument. (I don't have access to MassLive archives but I bet one of you can go back on THIS thread and find a discussion about it.)

 

Looking at the box score, Verdugo and Duran sat and Refsnyder and Kike started. But we were going against a lefty so that would the platoon thing rather than a rest thing.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS202307090.shtml