Red Sox Spring Training 2023

[Maxbialystock]

Atlanta is a good hitting club, and their A lineup was in there today. There wasn’t to many games this spring that the Red Sox pitching faced the other teams A lineup.

 

Good point. That happened a lot last season too--too many opposing teams went with their A lineup when we really needed to go against their B's. Thus the 25th best ERA in MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

Counting today we've given up 63 runs in the last 10 games. And the fewest given up in any game is 4.

[Old Red]

Counting today we've given up 63 runs in the last 10 games. And the fewest given up in any game is 4.

 

I know it’s still ST, and it doesn’t count for anything, but it still doesn’t look good, and a little worrisome.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Counting today we've given up 63 runs in the last 10 games. And the fewest given up in any game is 4.

 

Two hesitant routes in the outfield were on display on NESN in the first five frames -- Duran (in LF, where WMB noted his bad route), who dove for a ball that almost bounced off his face... and Duvall, lumbering after a ball over his head in CF. These aren't guys on the mound trying out a new pitch; what you see is what you get.

 

"Hopes are high," said Dave OB on the telecast. He didn't say which hopes specifically, but personally, I hope to see some stars of the future in Fenway by mid-summer.

[Maxbialystock]

Two hesitant routes in the outfield were on display on NESN in the first five frames -- Duran (in LF, where WMB noted his bad route), who dove for a ball that almost bounced off his face... and Duvall, lumbering after a ball over his head in CF. These aren't guys on the mound trying out a new pitch; what you see is what you get.

 

"Hopes are high," said Dave OB on the telecast. He didn't say which hopes specifically, but personally, I hope to see some stars of the future in Fenway by mid-summer.

 

The Sox outfielders are clearly saving themselves for the real games, so no "risky" plays in ST.

 

My hopes are not high. I see a weak defense, decent but not good hitting, a weak rotation, and a bullpen that could be overwhelmed with all the innings they will need to pitch.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox outfielders are clearly saving themselves for the real games, so no "risky" plays in ST.

 

My hopes are not high. I see a weak defense, decent but not good hitting, a weak rotation, and a bullpen that could be overwhelmed with all the innings they will need to pitch.

 

Ya, bullpen burnout has been an issue in the past with rotation starts that rarely go five... unless you're Tampa, and build a staff that way by design.

 

The weak -- or unstable -- D looks most glaring in the one area where contenders or any good team is traditionally strong: up the middle. Arroyo is a bonafide second baseman when healthy, but add his durability to all the other "ifs"...

 

... and counting on guys at all the key defensive positions -- C, SS, 2B and CF -- that have never played full MLB seasons there may be too much to ask.

 

At least the Sox have two prospects in the minors that are arguably better defensively than anyone on the parent club at SS and CF, right now. The sooner they get promoted, the better.

[notin]

Two hesitant routes in the outfield were on display on NESN in the first five frames -- Duran (in LF, where WMB noted his bad route), who dove for a ball that almost bounced off his face... and Duvall, lumbering after a ball over his head in CF. These aren't guys on the mound trying out a new pitch; what you see is what you get.

 

"Hopes are high," said Dave OB on the telecast. He didn't say which hopes specifically, but personally, I hope to see some stars of the future in Fenway by mid-summer.

 

The A’s are to the DFA and possibly release defensive whiz Cristian Pache. Deal!!

[moonslav59]

After a nice start to ST'ing, we ended up 14-14 with a +3 run diff.

 

Among players with 25+ PAs, here are some OPS numbers:

1.390 Alfaro

1.020 Turner

1.013 Casas 4 HRs, 9 XBHs and 10 RBI in 57 ABs

.988 Tapia 8 XBHs in 43 ABs

.950 Devers

.938 Duvall 4 HRs and 9 XBhs in 51 ABs

.844 Arroyo

.818 Valdez

.814 Dalbec 8 XBHs in 51 ABs

.810 Fitzgerald

 

10+ IP

1.13 Winckowski

2.70 Kelly

3.24 Kluber

4.15 Crawford

4.80 Sale

6.11 Pivetta

6.30 Scheiber

9.58 Ort

 

Notables with less than 10 IP

0.00 Dermody 8.1 IP

0.00 Mata 7.0 IP

0.00 Sheriff 6.2 IP

0.00 Whitlock 5.0

2.25 Feltman 8.0

2.25 Mosqueda 8.0

[moonslav59]

The A’s are to the DFA and possibly release defensive whiz Cristian Pache. Deal!!

 

Done! Ort for Pache.

[notin]

Done! Ort for Pache.

 

I’d deal Duran for him. Ort is too much to ask.

 

But I suppose Oakland wants a non-40 man player.

[Bellhorn04]

After a nice start to ST'ing, we ended up 14-14 with a +3 run diff.

 

Among players with 25+ PAs, here are some OPS numbers:

1.390 Alfaro

1.020 Turner

1.013 Casas 4 HRs, 9 XBHs and 10 RBI in 57 ABs

.988 Tapia 8 XBHs in 43 ABs

.950 Devers

.938 Duvall 4 HRs and 9 XBhs in 51 ABs

.844 Arroyo

.818 Valdez

.814 Dalbec 8 XBHs in 51 ABs

.810 Fitzgerald

 

10+ IP

1.13 Winckowski

2.70 Kelly

3.24 Kluber

4.15 Crawford

4.80 Sale

6.11 Pivetta

6.30 Scheiber

9.58 Ort

 

Notables with less than 10 IP

0.00 Dermody 8.1 IP

0.00 Mata 7.0 IP

0.00 Sheriff 6.2 IP

0.00 Whitlock 5.0

2.25 Feltman 8.0

2.25 Mosqueda 8.0

 

Now now, no hiding Houck's ugly numbers.

[notin]

Ya, bullpen burnout has been an issue in the past with rotation starts that rarely go five... unless you're Tampa, and build a staff that way by design.

 

The weak -- or unstable -- D looks most glaring in the one area where contenders or any good team is traditionally strong: up the middle. Arroyo is a bonafide second baseman when healthy, but add his durability to all the other "ifs"...

 

... and counting on guys at all the key defensive positions -- C, SS, 2B and CF -- that have never played full MLB seasons there may be too much to ask.

 

At least the Sox have two prospects in the minors that are arguably better defensively than anyone on the parent club at SS and CF, right now. The sooner they get promoted, the better.

 

 

I don’t like a lot of things about the opening day lineup. But injury has had an effect.

 

I don’t like Duvall in CF primarily. But if Mondesi returns and plays SS and Kike moves back to CF, the defense looks a lot better to me.

 

Especially if Duvall slides to LF and Yoshida to DH and Turner to a corner IF/OF supersub. But that’s probably too much to ask..

Edited March 28, 2023 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t like a lot of things about the opening day lineup. But injury has had an effect.

 

I don’t like Dunn in CF primarily. But if Mondesi returns and plays SS and Kike moves back to CF, the defense looks a lot better to me…

 

We signed Adam Dunn to play CF?

[notin]

We signed Adam Dunn to play CF?

 

It’s an honest mistake. But the difference is Dunn can draw a walk…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don’t like a lot of things about the opening day lineup. But injury has had an effect.

 

I don’t like Duvall in CF primarily. But if Mondesi returns and plays SS and Kike moves back to CF, the defense looks a lot better to me.

 

Especially if Duvall slides to LF and Yoshida to DH and Turner to a corner IF/OF supersub. But that’s probably too much to ask..

 

It's not too much to ask, it just makes too much sense.

 

Speaking of, I sense this Opening Day line-up won't last very long -- especially with spectators -- and there will be several combos, since our roster is filled with so much flexibility (not to be confused with flex ability)...

[vegasbob]

ST results don't factor in playoff positioning but may be revealing some trending towards improvement or the reality that the 2023 Sox are a weak roster , especially through the position players/hitters . From a 9-0 W-L start they fell to 5-14 with some troubles among the designated starters including Houck.

 

When you look at this roster for non-pitchers you need to consider:

 

1. Devers having a long term deal may free him up from having to think about his future but it doesn't make him a better player per se. He is the only real proven plus talent on this team.

 

2. Arroyo and Kike at 2B and SS are average talents who have never made it through a full season with no significant down time.

 

3. Casas is a big swing rookie with a taste of MLB . He could develop and get much better, but has to do it now.

 

4. Turner, no , not Trea Turner, is an end of career veteran realizing the progressive decline , but perhaps with a potential plus season.

 

5. McGuire and Wong, adequate/average , low ceilings behind the plate.

 

6. Yoshida is the one breath of hope for a surprise breakout season in USA MLB. Showed hitting ability in the WBC . He needs to show up big in this lineup. One hope is that he doesn't crash into the wall or get his foot stuck in the foul area garage door.

 

7. The rest of the outfielders, once an annual strength for decades in Boston , are really shots in the dark, and they may wind up in the dark recesses of nowhere land. The pitchers will have Duvall, Refsnyder and Verdugo to chase long flies. Dugo is an experienced player of some talent which shows up from time to time. If he has a break out year, along with Yoshida, there may be hope in Beantown.

 

8. Yu Chang ? No you change the roster, Chaim.

 

9. They guy most missing , a common theme so far, is Trevor Story. He could help immensely in the late second half, and like Chris Sale, needs to begin earning out his contract when physically ready.

 

In addition to Story, a sub .500 first half could lead to some of the WooSox roster coming up sooner than later. Maybe Mondesi can make a difference at some point by getting Kike back in CF This assemblage of 4th year Bloom talent really doesn't get much enthusiasm.

Edited March 28, 2023 by vegasbob

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

ST results don't factor in playoff positioning but may be revealing some trending towards improvement or the reality that the 2023 Sox are a weak roster , especially through the position players/hitters . From a 9-0 W-L start they fell to 5-14 with some troubles among the designated starters including Houck.

 

When you look at this roster for non-pitchers you need to consider:

 

1. Devers having a long term deal may free him up from having to think about his future but it doesn't make him a better player per se. He is the only real proven plus talent on this team.

 

2. Arroyo and Kike at 2B and SS are average talents who have never made it through a full season with no significant down time.

 

3. Casas is a big swing rookie with a taste of MLB . He could develop and get much better, but has to do it now.

 

4. Turner, no , not Trea Turner, is an end of career veteran realizing the progressive decline , but perhaps with a potential plus season.

 

5. McGuire and Wong, adequate/average , low ceilings behind the plate.

 

6. Yoshida is the one breath of hope for a surprise breakout season in USA MLB. Showed hitting ability in the WBC . He needs to show up big in this lineup. One hope is that he doesn't crash into the wall or get his foot stuck in the foul area garage door.

 

7. The rest of the outfielders, once an annual strength for decades in Boston , are really shots in the dark, and they may wind up in the dark recesses of nowhere land. The pitchers will have Duvall, Refsnyder and Verdugo to chase long flies. Dugo is an experienced player of some talent which shows up from time to time. If he has a break out year, along with Yoshida, there may be hope in Beantown.

 

8. Yu Chang ? No you change the roster, Chaim.

 

9. They guy most missing , a common theme so far, is Trevor Story. He could help immensely in the late second half, and like Chris Sale, needs to begin earning out his contract when physically ready.

 

In addition to Story, a sub .500 first half could lead to some of the WooSox roster coming up sooner than later. Maybe Mondesi can make a difference at some point by getting Kike back in CF This assemblage of 4th year Bloom talent really doesn't get much enthusiasm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6. The outfield--long Boston's claim to fame from Tris Speaker through Mookie Betts.

 

Good post. I gotta say, as far as #9 -- I have more faith in Sale bouncing back to decency this season than Story. The latter had a shortcut version of TJ, and even if it totally heals, stardom isn't guaranteed in half a year for swinging a bat at 100 mph fastballs, or gunning throws across the infield.

 

At least Sale had the actual Tommy John surgery and is finally healed after several years.

[jad]

Nah, the purpose of the Story deal was to get rid of Xander. Mission accomplished. Doesn't matter if Story ever gets back on the field.

[Hugh2]

Good post. I gotta say, as far as #9 -- I have more faith in Sale bouncing back to decency this season than Story. The latter had a shortcut version of TJ, and even if it totally heals, stardom isn't guaranteed in half a year for swinging a bat at 100 mph fastballs, or gunning throws across the infield.

 

At least Sale had the actual Tommy John surgery and is finally healed after several years.

 

I don’t think we can compare their injuries and the treatments they receive. It’s always optimal to avoid major surgery if possible. Not all injuries are created equally so neither is the treatment. I know I don’t have the medical competency to say the same thing….but with that said, I too am a little more optimistic on Sale returning more value than Story this year.

[moonslav59]

I’d deal Duran for him. Ort is too much to ask.

 

But I suppose Oakland wants a non-40 man player.

 

Not Politi.

[moonslav59]

ST results don't factor in playoff positioning but may be revealing some trending towards improvement or the reality that the 2023 Sox are a weak roster , especially through the position players/hitters . From a 9-0 W-L start they fell to 5-14 with some troubles among the designated starters including Houck.

 

When you look at this roster for non-pitchers you need to consider:

 

1. Devers having a long term deal may free him up from having to think about his future but it doesn't make him a better player per se. He is the only real proven plus talent on this team.

 

2. Arroyo and Kike at 2B and SS are average talents who have never made it through a full season with no significant down time.

 

3. Casas is a big swing rookie with a taste of MLB . He could develop and get much better, but has to do it now.

 

4. Turner, no , not Trea Turner, is an end of career veteran realizing the progressive decline , but perhaps with a potential plus season.

 

5. McGuire and Wong, adequate/average , low ceilings behind the plate.

 

6. Yoshida is the one breath of hope for a surprise breakout season in USA MLB. Showed hitting ability in the WBC . He needs to show up big in this lineup. One hope is that he doesn't crash into the wall or get his foot stuck in the foul area garage door.

 

7. The rest of the outfielders, once an annual strength for decades in Boston , are really shots in the dark, and they may wind up in the dark recesses of nowhere land. The pitchers will have Duvall, Refsnyder and Verdugo to chase long flies. Dugo is an experienced player of some talent which shows up from time to time. If he has a break out year, along with Yoshida, there may be hope in Beantown.

 

8. Yu Chang ? No you change the roster, Chaim.

 

9. They guy most missing , a common theme so far, is Trevor Story. He could help immensely in the late second half, and like Chris Sale, needs to begin earning out his contract when physically ready.

 

In addition to Story, a sub .500 first half could lead to some of the WooSox roster coming up sooner than later. Maybe Mondesi can make a difference at some point by getting Kike back in CF This assemblage of 4th year Bloom talent really doesn't get much enthusiasm.

 

I agree with 5GG's- good post.

 

I'd like to add...

 

#2: I think Kike has gone 1-2 seasons without getting hurt and spending time on the DL/IL. I think he was on the bench due to manager's choice not injury.

 

#3: Yes, Casas probably has to "do it now" for the Sox to have a good chance in 2023, but I think we can still win, if he just fields better than Dalbec & Cordero (which he can do on one leg and one eye closed) and just hits .725. (I'm confident he will end up near .800.)

 

#4: Turner was one of MLB's best second half hitters in 2022- for what that is worth.

 

#5: The bar set by Vaz and Plawecki may not be hard to reach.

 

#6: Yoshida needs to be "da MAN!"

 

We gotta hope Mondesi replaces Chang and Story comes back and allows Kike to play CF.

[notin]

Story could be out for a while.

 

But when healthy, Mondesi is one of the most exciting players in MLB. The problem, as you guessed, is he’s rarely healthy…

[jad]

Story could be out for a while.

 

But when healthy, Mondesi is one of the most exciting players in MLB. The problem, as you guessed, is he’s rarely healthy…

 

Yeah. Same problem with Bogaerts and Betts. Vaz too. They were just hurt all the time.

[moonslav59]

Speaking of the IL, covers has this...

 

Red Sox ETAs:

Thur?: Kike, Turner

Mid April: Whitlock, Paxton

Late April: Bello

Mid July: Story

Indefinitely: Mondesi, Mills, Rodriguez

 

Yankee ETAs:

Thur?: N Cortes, Marinaccio, Rortvedt

Early APR: Severino

Late APR: Rodon, Bader, Kahnle, A Wells

Mid May: Trivino

Indefinitely: Montas, Gil

Season: Effross

 

 

[notin]

Yeah. Same problem with Bogaerts and Betts. Vaz too. They were just hurt all the time.

 

If Christian Vazquez is on your “how could we let him slip away” list, it hurts the credibility of the whole thing. I mean, no Brock Holt?

[notin]

Not Politi.

 

Well so far this off-season, no one wants Politi…

[Nick]

If you can't get excited about Devers, Casas, Yoshida, Turner, Whitlock, Bello, then why are you here? Talk about a downer.

 

Point #1 says pretty much everything....we lock up Devers for 11 years and you think his mitivation might be gone? Sox can't win with you.

[Bellhorn04]

If you can't get excited about Devers, Casas, Yoshida, Turner, Whitlock, Bello, then why are you here? Talk about a downer.

 

Point #1 says pretty much everything....we lock up Devers for 11 years and you think his mitivation might be gone? Sox can't win with you.

 

It's not about excitement about individual players or lack thereof.

 

For the 2023 Red Sox and Chaim Bloom it's going to be all about the W-L record.

 

Most projections have us as a .500 team, which would clearly be unacceptable for Chaim's 4th season with the team, especially after he finally got some payroll room opened up.

[Bellhorn04]

If Christian Vazquez is on your “how could we let him slip away” list, it hurts the credibility of the whole thing. I mean, no Brock Holt?

 

Vaz was not a star, but a fairly solid player. The question is whether McGuire is a valid replacement. He's our #1 catcher now, and he had a 6.33 CERA with us last year, and our pitching was atrocious the last few weeks of ST, so I'm a little nervous about that.

[moonslav59]

If Christian Vazquez is on your “how could we let him slip away” list, it hurts the credibility of the whole thing. I mean, no Brock Holt?

 

He also played just over 290 games over his first 5 seasons in MLB.

 

As much as I have criticized his work with our staff, I still think he was a net plus and a good guy in the clubhouse.

 

I'm hopeful this catching group can outperform the last one, fairly quickly.