Red Sox Spring Training 2023

[Hugh2]

Darwinzon

Seabold

German

 

Some were traded for other guys. I don't remember if DHern was.

 

There were others too, wasn't there that SS who they literally just added to the 40 man a week earlier, traded for actually, only to remove him shortly after the rule 5.

[moonslav59]

I suppose you could argue that in hindsight, but the fact that he was taken #1 overall tells you had had trade value, and the Sox let him slip away for nothing. So yes, it was a mistake.

 

I think it was a mistake, too, but the final grade is still pending.

 

He could still end up back with us, although that is doubtful, but how would it be viewed, if that happened?

[moonslav59]

There were others too, wasn't there that SS who they literally just added to the 40 man a week earlier, traded for actually, only to remove him shortly after the rule 5.

 

Yes, they traded Lobo for Park, then DFA'd him.

[Hugh2]

They don't grow on trees, but it seems like there are more and more of them these days.

 

Well, you know how relief pitching goes. Some guys can never put it together, and others tweak a thing or two and become shutdown relief pitchers. Another teams trash becomes another teams treasure, it's not un justified carrying Ort until now BUT there's a very strong argument that it may be time to move on now.

[notin]

Yes, they traded Lobo for Park, then DFA'd him.

 

A lot of teams traded for Hoy Park this off-season and then DFAd him. Teams liked his glove and OBP skills, but not enough to dedicate a 40 man roster spot.

 

That type of thing happens to a few players every offseason…

[Hugh2]

Yes, they traded Lobo for Park, then DFA'd him.

 

I forget how long it was, but it felt like he was on the 40 man for only two weeks, I'm sure maybe it was longer but I know it was brief. I think the Rule 5 was mismanaged, leaving Ward unprotected was an obvious mistake. Politi and Song there's nothing you really could have done, but Ward shouldn't have been exposed.

[Hugh2]

I think it was a mistake, too, but the final grade is still pending.

 

He could still end up back with us, although that is doubtful, but how would it be viewed, if that happened?

 

The difference in final grade is between an F and an F+

[notin]

Well, you know how relief pitching goes. Some guys can never put it together, and others tweak a thing or two and become shutdown relief pitchers. Another teams trash becomes another teams treasure, it's not un justified carrying Ort until now BUT there's a very strong argument that it may be time to move on now.

 

It’s always been unjustified carrying Ort until now. And while people say that it makes not protecting Ward look worse, is there a single person on this board who thnks keeping Ort has ever been the right baseball move?

[notin]

Well I don't think we should assume if we DFA'd Ort back then that today we'd be DFAing Ward. I feel that may be a false premise, besides the fact that he was picked up with the #1 pick should tell us that if anything we would be trading him not DFAing him.

 

 

It’s not so much a false premise as it is a strong possibility.

 

If not Ward, then who?

[mvp 78]

There were others too, wasn't there that SS who they literally just added to the 40 man a week earlier, traded for actually, only to remove him shortly after the rule 5.

 

Park was brought in AFTER the Rule 5 date so he doesn't count. His transactions had no impact on whether they kept Ward or not.

[mvp 78]

I forget how long it was, but it felt like he was on the 40 man for only two weeks, I'm sure maybe it was longer but I know it was brief. I think the Rule 5 was mismanaged, leaving Ward unprotected was an obvious mistake. Politi and Song there's nothing you really could have done, but Ward shouldn't have been exposed.

 

I agree. If Chris Murphy was taken in the draft, I'm not sure we'd be still talking about it.

[Hugh2]

It’s always been unjustified carrying Ort until now. And while people say that it makes not protecting Ward look worse, is there a single person on this board who thnks keeping Ort has ever been the right baseball move?

 

I think that's 100% a hindsight opinion, because people who fit Orts description become really good players. Not all the time, and often they do not, and sometimes become something in-between. Look at a guy like Andrew Miller who looked like garbage until his 6th or 7th year in the majors. If we were talking about age 21-25 Andrew Miller on our 40 man right now what would the narrative be in here? On paper, he would be looking worse than Ort is right now.

 

Just because it might be the right decision to DFA order today, doesn't mean we can go back retroactively and say he never should have been protected. At one point he showed more promise than he is today.

 

And he still might become a big leaguer one day, I just don't think it's going to be in Boston.

[Hugh2]

Park was brought in AFTER the Rule 5 date so he doesn't count. His transactions had no impact on whether they kept Ward or not.

 

No he wasn't, he was traded for in November, and the Rule 5 draft was in December.

[mvp 78]

I think that's 100% a hindsight opinion, because people who fit Orts description become really good players. Not all the time, and often they do not, and sometimes become something in-between. Look at a guy like Andrew Miller who looked like garbage until his 6th or 7th year in the majors. If we were talking about age 21-25 Andrew Miller on our 40 man right now what would the narrative be in here? On paper, he would be looking worse than Ort is right now.

 

Just because it might be the right decision to DFA order today, doesn't mean we can go back retroactively and say he never should have been protected. At one point he showed more promise than he is today.

 

And he still might become a big leaguer one day, I just don't think it's going to be in Boston.

 

Kaleb Ort is 31!

[notin]

I agree. If Chris Murphy was taken in the draft, I'm not sure we'd be still talking about it.

 

… Which is odd because Murphy is 16 months younger and actually been pitching. Why would we lament the 26 year old minor leaguer whose only thrown 71 IP total in the last 3 years? At some point, the best ability is availability…

[notin]

No he wasn't, he was traded for in November, and the Rule 5 draft was in December.

 

The Rule 5 draft was December 7 and Park was DFAd December 13 and subsequently traded to Atlanta.

[mvp 78]

No he wasn't, he was traded for in November, and the Rule 5 draft was in December.

 

Maybe you need a refresher on the rules?

 

In order to protect eligible minor league players from the draft, teams must add those prospects to their 40-man roster by 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday, Nov. 15.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/red-sox-acquire-hoy-park.html

 

Hoy Park was acquired on 11/23. It didn't impact Ward's Rule 5 pick at all.

[mvp 78]

The Rule 5 draft was December 7 and Park was DFAd December 13 and subsequently traded to Atlanta.

 

That doesn't matter either.

[notin]

That doesn't matter either.

 

Those are the dates. Don’t blame me. Park was acquired 11/23 as well.

 

Either way, not many are happy with the whole Ort/Ward thing, but Ort has done absolutely nothing to justify it, and simply keeping him on the roster and hoping that happens is even more foolish.

 

At this point, it’s not even Ward. I’d much rather have held onto to German over both Ort and Ward…

Edited March 27, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

Those are the dates. Don’t blame me. Park was acquired 11/23 as well.

 

Either way, not many are hardly with the whole Ort/Ward thing, but Ort has done absolutely nothing to justify it, and simply keeping him on the roster and hoping that happens is even more foolish.

 

At this point, it’s not even Ward. I’d much rather have held onto to German over both Ort and Ward…

 

Maybe even Wallace.

[mvp 78]

Those are the dates. Don’t blame me. Park was acquired 11/23 as well.

 

Either way, not many are hardly with the whole Ort/Ward thing, but Ort has done absolutely nothing to justify it, and simply keeping him on the roster and hoping that happens is even more foolish.

 

At this point, it’s not even Ward. I’d much rather have held onto to German over both Ort and Ward…

 

The Park transaction has NOTHING to do with the Rule 5 draft.

[notin]

Maybe even Wallace.

 

I don’t get the Wallace/Mills trade.

 

But part of that was me clearly valuing Wallace more than Bloom did, and also me knowing absolutely nothing about Mills. I still really don’t…

[notin]

The Park transaction has NOTHING to do with the Rule 5 draft.

 

I only named dates.

 

Although I’d probably have kept Park over Ort, too, if I had that option…

[moonslav59]

I don’t get the Wallace/Mills trade.

 

But part of that was me clearly valuing Wallace more than Bloom did, and also me knowing absolutely nothing about Mills. I still really don’t…

 

It also further crunched the 40.

[mvp 78]

I don’t get the Wallace/Mills trade.

 

But part of that was me clearly valuing Wallace more than Bloom did, and also me knowing absolutely nothing about Mills. I still really don’t…

 

They like his spin rate and arm slot. Believe he can be a Schreiber-type if given the time. He looked ok in ST? IDK.

[notin]

They like his spin rate and arm slot. Believe he can be a Schreiber-type if given the time. He looked ok in ST? IDK.

 

I did criticize the deal, but only half-ass since Mills was a former Tampa farmhand and figured Bloom knew something…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It’s always been unjustified carrying Ort until now. And while people say that it makes not protecting Ward look worse, is there a single person on this board who thnks keeping Ort has ever been the right baseball move?

 

I'd make a retort of sort, but since this is sport, I'll be short.

[notin]

I'd make a retort of sort, but since this is sport, I'll be short.

 

Just abort..

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I forget how long it was, but it felt like he was on the 40 man for only two weeks, I'm sure maybe it was longer but I know it was brief. I think the Rule 5 was mismanaged, leaving Ward unprotected was an obvious mistake. Politi and Song there's nothing you really could have done, but Ward shouldn't have been exposed.

 

The worst part is that old Sox fans won't get to see Ward scold Wally.

[mvp 78]

I did criticize the deal, but only half-ass since Mills was a former Tampa farmhand and figured Bloom knew something…

 

He's a bottom of the 40 man roster guy to me. If he works out, fine. Maybe he's DFA'd at some point?