Red Sox Spring Training 2023

[notin]

This joke is getting old.

 

I do agree: he needs to go.

 

Maybe letting him go makes the TWard decision look even worse. Obviously, Alfaro and Tapia offer more to the 40 and maybe 26 than Ort does.

 

Actually letting him go might justify the Ward decision. Right now we look at the team and see Ort in place of Ward. If Ort were DFAd back in December and Ward kept, who would be getting DFAd for these roster moves today? Who goes to fit Tapia/Sherriff/Alfaro on the roster?

 

If Ward is a candidate, then we lose him either way…

Edited March 27, 2023 by notin

[Hugh2]

Actually letting him go might justify the Ward decision. Right now we look at the team and see Ort in place of Ward. If Ort were DFAd back in December and Ward kept, who would be getting DFAd for these roster moves today? Who goes to fit Tapia/Sherriff/Alfaro on the roster?

 

If Ward is a candidate, then we lose him either way…

 

Ward should have been on the 40 man but I don’t think he would have been competing for a spot on the 26 man. Or at the very least I think you don’t see as much of him because the Sox likely viewed him ready by 2024, maybe late this year. He’s barely pitched above AA

[notin]

Ward should have been on the 40 man but I don’t think he would have been competing for a spot on the 26 man. Or at the very least I think you don’t see as much of him because the Sox likely viewed him ready by 2024, maybe late this year. He’s barely pitched above AA

 

But if Ward was on the 40 in place of Ort, who would be getting DFAd to fit Tapia, Sherriff, Alfaro on the roster?

[Hugh2]

But if Ward was on the 40 in place of Ort, who would be getting DFAd to fit Tapia, Sherriff, Alfaro on the roster?

 

Ort, maybe Brasier?

[notin]

Ort, maybe Brasier?

 

I think you missed the conditional and hypothetical part of my question…

[Bellhorn04]

I think you missed the conditional and hypothetical part of my question…

 

It just shows how Ort is bamboozling even the great minds of Talksox.

[mvp 78]

Ward should have been on the 40 man but I don’t think he would have been competing for a spot on the 26 man. Or at the very least I think you don’t see as much of him because the Sox likely viewed him ready by 2024, maybe late this year. He’s barely pitched above AA

 

Ward's track record isn't that much different than Brandon Walter.

 

Ward: 41 Innings AA, 0 AAA

Walter: 50 Innings AA, 7 AAA

 

Some people thought Walter could help the Sox early on this season.

 

I'm not comparing Ward to Ort, but Ward to Chris Murphy. I think I would have kept Ward over Murphy 100%.

[Hugh2]

I think you missed the conditional and hypothetical part of my question…

 

This is entirely possible and I'm guessing at this point likley. I still don't think letting go of Ort now justifies the Ward decision, I would think it would make the decision to not protect Ward look even worse.

[Hugh2]

Ward's track record isn't that much different than Brandon Walter.

 

Ward: 41 Innings AA, 0 AAA

Walter: 50 Innings AA, 7 AAA

 

Some people thought Walter could help the Sox early on this season.

 

I'm not comparing Ward to Ort, but Ward to Chris Murphy. I think I would have kept Ward over Murphy 100%.

 

Let's keep in mind that still to this point Ward has yet to pitch an MLB inning. He's also going to be stashed in the back of the Nationals roster where a lot of other teams could not do that. Even if Ward isn't ready but close to it they can manage the situation, give him easy innings and mop up innings and still work on his development. You expect the Red Sox to compete, or at least try to. If you think someone like Walter could use a little bit more time in the minors you keep him there. Especially if you still believe he's a starter, in which case perhaps you make the argument he's the first one up if needed. Depending on how he starts the season, that may be the case.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It just shows how Ort is bamboozling even the great minds of Talksox.

 

Words that end in -ort: abort, export, deport, extort? distort, discomfort, nonsupport, spoilsport

[moonslav59]

Actually letting him go might justify the Ward decision. Right now we look at the team and see Ort in place of Ward. If Ort were DFAd back in December and Ward kept, who would be getting DFAd for these roster moves today? Who goes to fit Tapia/Sherriff/Alfaro on the roster?

 

If Ward is a candidate, then we lose him either way…

 

Maybe Ward would have trade value, right now vs an Ort DFA, or he'd be a nice minor league option after we traded Brasier, last December.

[moonslav59]

Ward, this spring:

 

11.1 IP

3.18 ERA

15 K/ 7 BB & 6 hits (.158 BA Against)

1.15 WHIP

 

 

[mvp 78]

Let's keep in mind that still to this point Ward has yet to pitch an MLB inning. He's also going to be stashed in the back of the Nationals roster where a lot of other teams could not do that. Even if Ward isn't ready but close to it they can manage the situation, give him easy innings and mop up innings and still work on his development. You expect the Red Sox to compete, or at least try to. If you think someone like Walter could use a little bit more time in the minors you keep him there. Especially if you still believe he's a starter, in which case perhaps you make the argument he's the first one up if needed. Depending on how he starts the season, that may be the case.

 

The Red Sox could have also just kept Ward in AAA as well. Easy enough to manage his innings.

 

We'll have to see if keeping Mills, Ort, Kelly and Murphy justify letting Ward go.

[mvp 78]

Maybe Ward would have trade value, right now vs an Ort DFA, or he'd be a nice minor league option after we traded Brasier, last December.

 

Or they could have tried trading Ward prior to letting him just get taken 1st overall in the Rule 5 draft? He obviously had value.

[Nick]

But but but Ort has good stuff. How long will Cora defend this guy? Does he have pictures on the management?

[mvp 78]

But but but Ort has good stuff. How long will Cora defend this guy? Does he have pictures on the management?

 

He had a 0.00 ERA in 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolaids_Relief_Man_Award

[moonslav59]

Or they could have tried trading Ward prior to letting him just get taken 1st overall in the Rule 5 draft? He obviously had value.

 

Agreed.

 

Adding him to our 40 would have just given us more time to make a trade.

 

I also wonder about how much we really value guts like Brasier, Ort, Mills, Dalbec, Duran and maybe even Murphy. If we really did/do not want to lose them by 40 man roster attrition, maybe we should have traded someone in the next higher tier for a non 40 man prospect to make roster room:

 

Murphy or Walter and kept Ward or add Sheriff

Refsnyder or Abreu (add Tapia)

Crawford or Winckowski (Ward/Sheriff)

Wong (add Alfaro), although it's good to have 3 catchers on the 40.

[moonslav59]

He had a 0.00 ERA in 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolaids_Relief_Man_Award

 

LOL.

 

Gotta love that 12.17 FIP and 6.00 WHIP in 0.1 IP.

[Hugh2]

The Red Sox could have also just kept Ward in AAA as well. Easy enough to manage his innings.

 

We'll have to see if keeping Mills, Ort, Kelly and Murphy justify letting Ward go.

 

Of course, they could have, and I'd suspect they would have. I think any team who loses a guy to rule 5 planned on starting them in the minors otherwise they most likely would be presumably making the big league club.

 

I also think a very strong argument can already be made that the Sox made a mistake not protecting Ward, even if everyone on that list you mentioned pitches well. There were other guys who could have been left unprotected at that time. I'm not feeling ambitious enough to look up names but there were a few guys who they protected over Ward who they just ended up DFA'ing a few weeks later.

[Hugh2]

Or they could have tried trading Ward prior to letting him just get taken 1st overall in the Rule 5 draft? He obviously had value.

 

This too. This is why I think it can already be labeled a mistake leaving him unprotected.

[Hugh2]

But but but Ort has good stuff. How long will Cora defend this guy? Does he have pictures on the management?

 

It's still spring training, and it's true that he has stuff. It's an amorphous process, it's not like there's a clear definitive point in time where if you don't let that player go it means XYZ, Ort is almost certainly the next guy in line to be DFA'd and he just may be. Who knows maybe they still think they can fix something in him, guys who throw 100 don't grow up trees. But if it is time for him to go, what's the difference between last week and later this week at this point? We can play the hindsight game and say they should have DFA'd and added Ward to the 40 man but what is done is done. If it IS that time, that move won't be made until they actually are ready to make a transaction where they need his spot.

 

Which may come any day now.

[moonslav59]

This too. This is why I think it can already be labeled a mistake leaving him unprotected.

 

Doesn't how well or poorly he does going forward have a role in the final grade of that choice?

[mvp 78]

Agreed.

 

Adding him to our 40 would have just given us more time to make a trade.

 

I also wonder about how much we really value guts like Brasier, Ort, Mills, Dalbec, Duran and maybe even Murphy. If we really did/do not want to lose them by 40 man roster attrition, maybe we should have traded someone in the next higher tier for a non 40 man prospect to make roster room:

 

Murphy or Walter and kept Ward or add Sheriff

Refsnyder or Abreu (add Tapia)

Crawford or Winckowski (Ward/Sheriff)

Wong (add Alfaro), although it's good to have 3 catchers on the 40.

 

Or just trade Ward early in the offseason before you have to set your 40 man for the draft?

[mvp 78]

Of course, they could have, and I'd suspect they would have. I think any team who loses a guy to rule 5 planned on starting them in the minors otherwise they most likely would be presumably making the big league club.

 

I also think a very strong argument can already be made that the Sox made a mistake not protecting Ward, even if everyone on that list you mentioned pitches well. There were other guys who could have been left unprotected at that time. I'm not feeling ambitious enough to look up names but there were a few guys who they protected over Ward who they just ended up DFA'ing a few weeks later.

 

Darwinzon

Seabold

German

 

Some were traded for other guys. I don't remember if DHern was.

[notin]

This is entirely possible and I'm guessing at this point likley. I still don't think letting go of Ort now justifies the Ward decision, I would think it would make the decision to not protect Ward look even worse.

 

 

Well, the point now would be would it matter if we lost Ward and then DFAd Ort? Or DFAd Ort and then had to DFA Ward?

 

I don’t know how much of a loss Ward is, but I so Lao don’t think he’s the best pitcher we kept Ort instead of..

[Hugh2]

Doesn't how well or poorly he does going forward have a role in the final grade of that choice?

 

I suppose you could argue that in hindsight, but the fact that he was taken #1 overall tells you had had trade value, and the Sox let him slip away for nothing. So yes, it was a mistake.

[mvp 78]

It's still spring training, and it's true that he has stuff. It's an amorphous process, it's not like there's a clear definitive point in time where if you don't let that player go it means XYZ, Ort is almost certainly the next guy in line to be DFA'd and he just may be. Who knows maybe they still think they can fix something in him, guys who throw 100 don't grow up trees. But if it is time for him to go, what's the difference between last week and later this week at this point? We can play the hindsight game and say they should have DFA'd and added Ward to the 40 man but what is done is done. If it IS that time, that move won't be made until they actually are ready to make a transaction where they need his spot.

 

Which may come any day now.

 

They don't grow on trees, but it seems like there are more and more of them these days.

[notin]

Or just trade Ward early in the offseason before you have to set your 40 man for the draft?

 

There’s no question the Wad situation was handled the worst possible way. The only thing worse at this point would be keeping Ort solely to avoid some PR, especially since the Sox Woolf still need to DFA someone this week…

[moonslav59]

Darwinzon

Seabold

German

 

Some were traded for other guys. I don't remember if DHern was.

 

I think Dhern was traded for cash, German for Denlinger and Seabold for PTBNL. Plus, Wallace for Mills.

 

Also, Taylor was traded for Mondesi and Angel Pierre.

Barnes & cash for Bleier.

 

We lost Ward and Song to Rule 5, so that makes at least 8 pitchers lost over the winter.

[Hugh2]

Well, the point now would be would it matter if we lost Ward and then DFAd Ort? Or DFAd Ort and then had to DFA Ward?

 

I don’t know how much of a loss Ward is, but I so Lao don’t think he’s the best pitcher we kept Ort instead of..

 

Well I don't think we should assume if we DFA'd Ort back then that today we'd be DFAing Ward. I feel that may be a false premise, besides the fact that he was picked up with the #1 pick should tell us that if anything we would be trading him not DFAing him.