A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[Old Red]

They did sign Bogey to an extension.

 

Sale would be another.

 

Before that you're looking at Pedroia.

 

I actually forgot about Pedroia, but Bogey wasn’t a FA at the time, so it’s not quite the same. The point was that the Sox have not had a good history of resigning their own players, and then over compensated with players they did sign like Price, and the big Sandman.

[Old Red]

No Pedro, either.

 

We've done remarkably well in letting our stars go, just in time.

 

Ellsbury was a costly mistake by the Yankees, but I would had rather kept Lester than signed Price.

[moonslav59]

Ellsbury was a costly mistake by the Yankees, but I would had rather kept Lester than signed Price.

 

Lester was the "one that got away," and Betts may make us have deep regrets, but by and large, we've done well knowing when to say enough is enough.

[moonslav59]

Lester was the "one that got away," and Betts may make us have deep regrets, but by and large, we've done well knowing when to say enough is enough.

 

Damon? We had a LF'er.

Pedro? His arm was held by a thread.

Ellsbury? Wasn't even worth half what the Skanks paid.

Manny? We traded him before his time was up, and just in time.

Nomar? Dumped his ass just in time.

Lester? A mistake by us.

A Beltre? A mistake, but we only had him 1 year.

AGon? Just in time.

Beckett? Just in time.

Youk? Traded too late.

JBJ? Great let go.

Mueller & VTek. Right moves.

Porcello? Okay

Lackey? Linda messed up but complicated

Lowe? Had reasons.

Schilling? one year too many but he earned it.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

Damon? We had a LF'er.

Pedro? His arm was held by a thread.

Ellsbury? Wasn't even worth half what the Skanks paid.

Manny? We traded him before his time was up, and just in time.

Nomar? Dumped his ass just in time.

Lester? A mistake by us.

A Beltre? A mistake, but we only had him 1 year.

AGon? Just in time.

Beckett? Just in time.

Youk? Traded too late.

JBJ? Great let go.

Mueller & VTek. Right moves.

Porcello? Okay

Lackey? Linda messed up but complicated

Lowe? Had reasons.

Schilling? one year too many but he earned it.

 

 

 

Good assessment.

[mvp 78]

I actually forgot about Pedroia, but Bogey wasn’t a FA at the time, so it’s not quite the same. The point was that the Sox have not had a good history of resigning their own players, and then over compensated with players they did sign like Price, and the big Sandman.

 

I'm not sure if it's an ownership thing or a GM thing. I wonder if ownership just gives the GM a dollar amount and the GM can fill it up with whatever they want to.

[mvp 78]

Damon? We had a LF'er.

Pedro? His arm was held by a thread.

Ellsbury? Wasn't even worth half what the Skanks paid.

Manny? We traded him before his time was up, and just in time.

Nomar? Dumped his ass just in time.

Lester? A mistake by us.

A Beltre? A mistake, but we only had him 1 year.

AGon? Just in time.

Beckett? Just in time.

Youk? Traded too late.

JBJ? Great let go.

Mueller & VTek. Right moves.

Porcello? Okay

Lackey? Linda messed up but complicated

Lowe? Had reasons.

Schilling? one year too many but he earned it.

 

 

 

Beltre is the poster child for a player that should have just come back because it made too much sense.

 

I mostly agree with your above assessment.

[notin]

I actually forgot about Pedroia, but Bogey wasn’t a FA at the time, so it’s not quite the same. The point was that the Sox have not had a good history of resigning their own players, and then over compensated with players they did sign like Price, and the big Sandman.

 

Pedroia, Bogaerts, Sale, Varitek, Porcello, Beckett.

 

The Sox have signed their own players plenty of times. The problem is, a lot of players really want to test free agency. They know that's where the money is, and they have been working for reaching free agency for most of their adult lives. No one hires an agent so they can take a hometown discount...

Edited October 26, 2021 by notin

[notin]

Beltre is the poster child for a player that should have just come back because it made too much sense.

 

I mostly agree with your above assessment.

 

I wanted Beltre back a ot more than I wanted AGon. But it was obvious even from the structure of the contract (ridiculously low player option) that he was taking a one year deal that squeezed him on to the Sox roster under their budget limits, but he had every intention of checking out the market one more time...

[notin]

I'm not sure if it's an ownership thing or a GM thing. I wonder if ownership just gives the GM a dollar amount and the GM can fill it up with whatever they want to.

 

Certainly the GMs have a dollar amount...

[notin]

Lester was the "one that got away," and Betts may make us have deep regrets, but by and large, we've done well knowing when to say enough is enough.

 

Lester had two really good seasons with the Cubs, but then he started to tail off real fast...

[S5Dewey]

My first thought when Bloom was signed was to wonder what this will mean for Devers. Owners tend to sign GM's for a purpose based on their history. The Red Sox signed DD to tweak the team and make a run at a WSC... and it worked. He left the minors barren but as they say, "flags fly forever". Now they've signed Bloom and Bloom didn't make a name for himself by signing expensive players to long term contracts.

 

If history means anything I wouldn't be spending $100+ for a shirt with "DEVERS" on the back of it.

[moonslav59]

Lester had two really good seasons with the Cubs, but then he started to tail off real fast...

 

Yes, even the ones we missed were not really horrific.

[mvp 78]

My first thought when Bloom was signed was to wonder what this will mean for Devers. Owners tend to sign GM's for a purpose based on their history. The Red Sox signed DD to tweak the team and make a run at a WSC... and it worked. He left the minors barren but as they say, "flags fly forever". Now they've signed Bloom and Bloom didn't make a name for himself by signing expensive players to long term contracts.

 

If history means anything I wouldn't be spending $100+ for a shirt with "DEVERS" on the back of it.

 

Only for retired players.

[notin]

My first thought when Bloom was signed was to wonder what this will mean for Devers. Owners tend to sign GM's for a purpose based on their history. The Red Sox signed DD to tweak the team and make a run at a WSC... and it worked. He left the minors barren but as they say, "flags fly forever". Now they've signed Bloom and Bloom didn't make a name for himself by signing expensive players to long term contracts.

 

If history means anything I wouldn't be spending $100+ for a shirt with "DEVERS" on the back of it.

 

I am not so sure that history is based on techniques as much as it is on results.

 

Bloom's predecessor, mentor and former boss Andrew Friedman is doing in LA the polar opposite of how things were done in Tampa.

 

And historically, Tampa actually has signed players to contract extensions far earlier than most teams do. Evan Longoria signed his first extension after 2 weeks in MLB. Matt Moore signed his after 2 starts. Picture the Sox offering an extension to Jarren Duran right now. THAT would be how Tampa handled the situation...

[mvp 78]

I am not so sure that history is based on techniques as much as it is on results.

 

Bloom's predecessor, mentor and former boss Andrew Friedman is doing in LA the polar opposite of how things were done in Tampa.

 

And historically, Tampa actually has signed players to contract extensions far earlier than most teams do. Evan Longoria signed his first extension after 2 weeks in MLB. Matt Moore signed his after 2 starts. Picture the Sox offering an extension to Jarren Duran right now. THAT would be how Tampa handled the situation...

 

Only if Duran could actually hit in MLB>

[notin]

Only if Duran could actually hit in MLB>

 

He will probably learn to hit at some point. But will he ever learn to judge a flyball?

[moonslav59]

I'm thinking Duran will be a good ML hitter.

 

It may take a while to reach average defense.

[notin]

I'm thinking Duran will be a good ML hitter.

 

It may take a while to reach average defense.

 

If the Sox aren’t going to bring back Schwarber, is Duran in the plans for 2021?

[mvp 78]

He will probably learn to hit at some point. But will he ever learn to judge a flyball?

 

He's perpetually the "too high" guy from Major League.

[mvp 78]

If the Sox aren’t going to bring back Schwarber, is Duran in the plans for 2021?

 

No, because they are bringing back Kyle Schwarber.

[moonslav59]

Dreaming without much regard to the farm...

 

Trade: Duran, Groome & Gonzalez

For: Montas (2 yrs) & Piscotty (1 yr)

 

Trade: Dalbec, Downs, Renfroe & Ward

For: Mountcastle (5 yrs)

 

Sign: ERod, R Iglesias, Schwarber & Iggy

 

2022 Roster

1. Kike CF

2. Schwarber LF

3. Bogey SS

4. Devers 3B

5. Mountcastle 1B

6. Martinez DH

7. Verdugo RF

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vazquez C

Bench: Piscotty (.825 v LHP), Iggy, Casas, Plawecki/Wong/Hernandez

 

SP1. Eovaldi

SP2. Montas

SP3. Sale

SP4. ERod

SP5. Pivetta

SP6. Seabold

 

RP1. Iglesias

RP2. Houck

RP3. Whitlock

RP4. Barnes

RP5. Taylor

RP6. Brasier

RP7. DHern

RP8. Sawamura/Davis/Valdez/Bazardo/Feltman

[notin]

No, because they are bringing back Kyle Schwarber.

 

Inside info? Or will you be commanding them to do such?

[oldtimer]

Dreaming without much regard to the farm...

 

Trade: Duran, Groome & Gonzalez

For: Montas (2 yrs) & Piscotty (1 yr)

 

Trade: Dalbec, Downs, Renfroe & Ward

For: Mountcastle (5 yrs)

 

Sign: ERod, R Iglesias, Schwarber & Iggy

 

2022 Roster

1. Kike CF

2. Schwarber LF

3. Bogey SS

4. Devers 3B

5. Mountcastle 1B

6. Martinez DH

7. Verdugo RF

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vazquez C

Bench: Piscotty (.825 v LHP), Iggy, Casas, Plawecki/Wong/Hernandez

 

SP1. Eovaldi

SP2. Montas

SP3. Sale

SP4. ERod

SP5. Pivetta

SP6. Seabold

 

RP1. Iglesias

RP2. Houck

RP3. Whitlock

RP4. Barnes

RP5. Taylor

RP6. Brasier

RP7. DHern

RP8. Sawamura/Davis/Valdez/Bazardo/Feltman

 

Some pretty imaginative trades. Who wouldn't want Montcastle? Montas would be a help as well. Don't like the idea of Schwaber in LF. Let's wait to see who outs out before considering that one.

[jgar658]

No, because they are bringing back Kyle Schwarber.

 

How about signing Correa and put Bogey on 2nd base?

[moonslav59]

How about signing Correa and put Bogey on 2nd base?

 

Semien or Baez is a better idea.

[Tedballgame]

Semien or Baez is a better idea.

 

Then they would have 40-50 million tied up at SS and 2B. Not happening.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He will probably learn to hit at some point. But will he ever learn to judge a flyball?

 

If he plays enough, yes. It's easier to outrun bad jumps or routes if you have elite speed, and more reps equals more confidence in taking the proper first step, reading the flight of the ball, and sprinting to location with back to the plate. Duran isn't hapless out there to begin with from what I've seen (and not just read second-hand).

 

If you're fast, at least it's easier to chase down a ball in the gap than it is to hit 90 mph sliders or change-ups.

[oldtimer]

If he plays enough, yes. It's easier to outrun bad jumps or routes if you have elite speed, and more reps equals more confidence in taking the proper first step, reading the flight of the ball, and sprinting to location with back to the plate. Duran isn't hapless out there to begin with from what I've seen (and not just read second-hand).

 

If you're fast, at least it's easier to chase down a ball in the gap than it is to hit 90 mph sliders or change-ups.

 

 

Last night the Braves scored 3 runs due to their elite speed guys. Two beat out infield hits and one stolen base. It's doubly helpful when those guys are also good fielders. The Sox tend to be slow and the infield is the worst in the league defensively. The players in the Sox system who have elite speed are Duran and Rosario. From what I saw of Duran, he made all the plays that came his way and wasn't given nearly the opportunity Gonzalez was given at the plate. Rosario regressed at the plate this year.

 

Notin loves to rag on Duran constantly for reasons known only to him. I want to keep the kid and to give him a real opportunity to make the team. We have Verdugo and Kike who did a good job this year and Renfroe, not so much. The idea of playing Schwaber as a regular outfielder is asking for trouble. He could as a fill in but not FT. Injury issues and marginal defense should keep him at DH and only if Martinez opts out. We could have an outfield spot open plus our bench should include a utility outfielder. There is room for Duran.

[Bellhorn04]

Last night the Braves scored 3 runs due to their elite speed guys. Two beat out infield hits and one stolen base. It's doubly helpful when those guys are also good fielders. The Sox tend to be slow and the infield is the worst in the league defensively. The players in the Sox system who have elite speed are Duran and Rosario. From what I saw of Duran, he made all the plays that came his way and wasn't given nearly the opportunity Gonzalez was given at the plate. Rosario regressed at the plate this year.

 

Notin loves to rag on Duran constantly for reasons known only to him. I want to keep the kid and to give him a real opportunity to make the team. We have Verdugo and Kike who did a good job this year and Renfroe, not so much. The idea of playing Schwaber as a regular outfielder is asking for trouble. He could as a fill in but not FT. Injury issues and marginal defense should keep him at DH and only if Martinez opts out. We could have an outfield spot open plus our bench should include a utility outfielder. There is room for Duran.

 

Notin's ragging on Duran makes at least as much sense as your ragging on Renfroe. Renfroe made 3.1 million and hit 31 homers and had 96 RBI. We didn't make the postseason without him. He slumped in the ALCS. It happens to many good hitters.

 

I don't mean to pick on you about that. I enjoy your posts. Just disagree about Renfroe.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Bellhorn04