A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[Old Red]

I never said it was Bloom’s way, but Bloom is in a much different environment, now.,

 

I’m not sure we can know what he might or might not do.

 

I don’t think he was brought to Boston to be another Dombrowski.

[moonslav59]

Sale was recently, but not the others.

 

My point was that trading for big names need not be highly paid big names, which would be something one might think Bloom might do.

 

I know he seems like the type who would not trade prospects for something like the Sale deal. The Tampa way was trading big names for guys that turn into big names, so it’s hard to imagine what Bloom might do when he’s in the other seat.

 

This is part of what makes this winter so interesting.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think he was brought to Boston to be another Dombrowski.

 

There is a gray area between Ben and DD.

 

I’ve already said I doubt Bloom goes large and long this winter, but I can see him doing it once every now and then, or making one Chris Sale type trade not dumping almost the whole farm.

[moonslav59]

Bloom’s first big job was trading Mookie.

 

You think that is a sign of “the new way” in Beantown?

 

We are now Tampa North?

[Old Red]

My point was that trading for big names need not be highly paid big names, which would be something one might think Bloom might do.

 

I know he seems like the type who would not trade prospects for something like the Sale deal. The Tampa way was trading big names for guys that turn into big names, so it’s hard to imagine what Bloom might do when he’s in the other seat.

 

This is part of what makes this winter so interesting.

 

Agree with you on that. I’ve said before that the next two winters are going to be very interesting, and important to what this team will look like in the future. Lots of big decisions to make.

[Old Red]

You think that is a sign of “the new way” in Beantown?

 

We are now Tampa North?

 

I’m just judging my opinion on how the Sox handled last off season, and this years trading deadline, and listening to Sam Kennedy a few days ago. I’d like to see some of the roster moves, and rosters you have mentioned, but I just don’t think it will happen, and I hope I’m wrong about that.

[moonslav59]

I’m just judging my opinion on how the Sox handled last off season, and this years trading deadline, and listening to Sam Kennedy a few days ago. I’d like to see some of the roster moves, and rosters you have mentioned, but I just don’t think it will happen, and I hope I’m wrong about that.

 

Sometimes I give my opinion knowing it’s not likely to happen.

 

My guess of what happens is we spend about the same as last winter but on 3-5 players not 7-8. That’s not going to be a big name.

 

I do think he makes some sort of big trade or two. Maybe trading Bogey. Maybe trading some prospects but not to DDs level. Maybe he does both.

 

I just don’t see us repeating last winter over and over. Maybe we do. Maybe Bloom finds a few more gems each winter, and it’s always more or better than who we lose every year, but I am pretty certain, when the time is right, and the right player comes a long, we’lol go big again.

 

I think Betts was the right guy, but it was exactly the wrong time. I’m not sure when that right time will be, but I’m pretty certain it’s not this winter.

 

[notin]

I’m just judging my opinion on how the Sox handled last off season, and this years trading deadline, and listening to Sam Kennedy a few days ago. I’d like to see some of the roster moves, and rosters you have mentioned, but I just don’t think it will happen, and I hope I’m wrong about that.

 

The real problem with big multi year deals is you’re on the hook for the entire deal. Going by how Bloom handled last off-season is meaningless, since the Sox still have one of the highest payrolls in MLB.

 

The Tampa North crowd lives in a world where your only as good as your biggest contract. They seem to forget that while Bloom didn’t blow payroll into uncharted waters, he did absolutely spend as much as he was allowed to. Right up to that luxury tax line…

[jacksonianmarch]

Bloom is going to spend, but I absolutely believe he would rather spend higher amounts for shorter term deals. I think he is going to remake your roster and move off expiring assets (Bogey for one) unless they take the Boston discount. If he gets one more good draft/INTL period, my bet is he will start to have the pipeline of players he needs to make the moves he was famous for. Bloom was absolute genius at dealing top prospects for other top prospects and winning the deal. Or dealing vets for prospects and high velocity arms when a prospect was ready. Neidert does that now. Friedman did it before him

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom is going to spend, but I absolutely believe he would rather spend higher amounts for shorter term deals. I think he is going to remake your roster and move off expiring assets (Bogey for one) unless they take the Boston discount. If he gets one more good draft/INTL period, my bet is he will start to have the pipeline of players he needs to make the moves he was famous for. Bloom was absolute genius at dealing top prospects for other top prospects and winning the deal. Or dealing vets for prospects and high velocity arms when a prospect was ready. Neidert does that now. Friedman did it before him

 

Tampa your expectations.

[mvp 78]

I’m just judging my opinion on how the Sox handled last off season, and this years trading deadline, and listening to Sam Kennedy a few days ago. I’d like to see some of the roster moves, and rosters you have mentioned, but I just don’t think it will happen, and I hope I’m wrong about that.

 

What did Sam Kennedy say about payroll?

[oldtimer]

Tampa your expectations.

 

The discussions leading toward a new MLBB contract may result in a work stoppage. That possibility may well Tampa the GM's expectations and leave the fans to sit in front of a cold stove.

[mvp 78]

The discussions leading toward a new MLBB contract may result in a work stoppage. That possibility may well Tampa the GM's expectations and leave the fans to sit in front of a cold stove.

 

Is the stove room temperature or an ice box?

[moonslav59]

Bloom is going to spend, but I absolutely believe he would rather spend higher amounts for shorter term deals. I think he is going to remake your roster and move off expiring assets (Bogey for one) unless they take the Boston discount. If he gets one more good draft/INTL period, my bet is he will start to have the pipeline of players he needs to make the moves he was famous for. Bloom was absolute genius at dealing top prospects for other top prospects and winning the deal. Or dealing vets for prospects and high velocity arms when a prospect was ready. Neidert does that now. Friedman did it before him

 

It's hard to get top talent on short deals, and signing more quantity rather than quality eventually get's your roster "too deep,: and you start losing Rule 5 guys you want to keep.

 

Our 40 man roster has not gotten to that point, yet, but we have half the holes we had last winter, and in my estimation, about the same amount of money to spend, this winter as last.

 

If we ever decide to go significantly over the budget, we'll be almost forced to go large and long or sign 3-4 guys at $12-18M each. (That may be next year or the following season.)

[moonslav59]

I’m just judging my opinion on how the Sox handled last off season, and this years trading deadline, and listening to Sam Kennedy a few days ago. I’d like to see some of the roster moves, and rosters you have mentioned, but I just don’t think it will happen, and I hope I’m wrong about that.

 

I seriously doubt we stay below the tax line for more than one more season, but who knows what the next CBA will bring.

[mvp 78]

I seriously doubt we stay below the tax line for more than one more season, but who knows what the next CBA will bring.

 

At some point, if the Sox owners continue to limit themselves due to a luxury tax, fans will turn on them for the ever increasing cost of going to a game or even just wanting to watch the product from home.

[moonslav59]

At some point, if the Sox owners continue to limit themselves due to a luxury tax, fans will turn on them for the ever increasing cost of going to a game or even just wanting to watch the product from home.

 

I don't disagree, but staying right below the tax line is still spending more than all but a handful of teams.

 

With Bloom's penchant for finding low-cost gems, we should be able to stay highly competitive when at or slightly below the tax line.

 

My guess is, we might do that, and when the perfect storm looks like it is upon us, we will pounce and go significantly over the line to maximize a window.

[mvp 78]

I don't disagree, but staying right below the tax line is still spending more than all but a handful of teams.

 

With Bloom's penchant for finding low-cost gems, we should be able to stay highly competitive when at or slightly below the tax line.

 

My guess is, we might do that, and when the perfect storm looks like it is upon us, we will pounce and go significantly over the line to maximize a window.

 

Doesn't matter. If the Sox are perceived as penny pinching (Lester, Betts, Bogaerts?), fans at some point will no longer be ok with forking out a thousand bucks to take their family to a game.

 

Seems like this year should have been the perfect storm to go over since they got to the ALCS. A few spendy moves could have pushed them into the WS.

[moonslav59]

Doesn't matter. If the Sox are perceived as penny pinching (Lester, Betts, Bogaerts?), fans at some point will no longer be ok with forking out a thousand bucks to take their family to a game.

 

Seems like this year should have been the perfect storm to go over since they got to the ALCS. A few spendy moves could have pushed them into the WS.

 

I get the fan part, and don't disagree, but if we keep having seasons like this, I don't think there will be a noticeable turning away fro supporting the Sox, because we did not spend more.

 

There may be some fans that do, but this was one hell of a season and was below the tax line.

[mvp 78]

When fan favorites are no longer kept around, you'll see more an more grumbling. If the Sox are a mediocre 85 win team next year, you'll hear LOTS of complaints.

[moonslav59]

When fan favorites are no longer kept around, you'll see more an more grumbling. If the Sox are a mediocre 85 win team next year, you'll hear LOTS of complaints.

 

I seriously doubt we continuously let guys like Betts, Bogey and Devers go.

 

Even then, if we keep winning, and add new exciting players, it may not matter as much as we might think.

 

The 2007 Red Sox was pretty different from 2004, and 2013 was way different.

[Bellhorn04]

My guess is, we might do that, and when the perfect storm looks like it is upon us, we will pounce and go significantly over the line to maximize a window.

 

Holy Multiple Metaphors, Batman!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Holy Multiple Metaphors, Batman!

 

Cliche is such a cliche.

[moonslav59]

BTV accepted these two separate deals: (not saying I would do the second one)

 

Duran, Downs & Seabold for Means (3 yrs)

Duran, Mata, Seabold for Monats (2), Trivino (3), Piscotty (1) as a salary dump

 

 

 

[mvp 78]

I seriously doubt we continuously let guys like Betts, Bogey and Devers go.

 

Even then, if we keep winning, and add new exciting players, it may not matter as much as we might think.

 

The 2007 Red Sox was pretty different from 2004, and 2013 was way different.

 

Well, I'll sit here and wait for them to re-sign, but it hasn't happened yet.

[moonslav59]

Well, I'll sit here and wait for them to re-sign, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

Did we keep fans after letting Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Damon and Mueller go?

Manny, Beckett & Lowell?

Lester, Lackey & Ellsbury?

 

Again, I think we'll keep Bogey or Devers- probably not both, but keep bringing us the Kike's and Whitlocks, and I'll keep watching.

[Nick]

BTV accepted these two separate deals: (not saying I would do the second one)

 

Duran, Downs & Seabold for Means (3 yrs)

Duran, Mata, Seabold for Monats (2), Trivino (3), Piscotty (1) as a salary dump

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't do either....18 years for 3 years.....

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't do either....18 years for 3 years.....

 

The second one is 18 for 6.

[mvp 78]

Did we keep fans after letting Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Damon and Mueller go?

Manny, Beckett & Lowell?

Lester, Lackey & Ellsbury?

 

Again, I think we'll keep Bogey or Devers- probably not both, but keep bringing us the Kike's and Whitlocks, and I'll keep watching.

 

Tell me more about the joys of 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2020. Were those seasons fun for everyone? If there weren't a few WS flags in there, don't you think that fans would be more pissed. If the playoffs are a crapshoot, you can't guarantee to get a ring every few years while alternating with pissing off your fans. At some point, you'll just piss off your fans and end the season with a loss for a few decades.

[notin]

I wouldn't do either....18 years for 3 years.....

 

Do Duran, Downs and Seabold really all have 18 years combined? It's not the given you think it is...